Daboll...Playaction, Deep routes, Allen's running all connected...

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

10 hours ago, BillsRdue said:

I'm with you on this. I was a bit skeptical of Daboll early in the year, but with Peterman and Anderson throwing to KB, Holmes and Zay with a patchwork OL any OC would be thinking WTF can I do?  Run Shady, hit quick precision routes. Then KB drops them or can't separate. Holmes is useless. Zay is still adapting and Peterman sh*ts the bed with the pick 6 parties. Allen takes some time to get rolling (has a great day in Minnie) but gets hurt. We know his arm is really good. Unfortunately KB can't separate or make a contested catch. Shady lost a step and has no run blocking and Clay is useless or injured. 

Finally things click with Barkley stepping in and a little bit of competent QB play opens up the offense and makes everyone around better. Zay finds his grove. Foster is re-born. Mckenzie and Thompson add more stretch speed and this formula works for Josh to run and make plays. 

 

I'm excited to see what happens next year with a full off-season, some quality OL, a stud WR and an RB to take over for Shady.  I'm loving where the D is headed and hopefully they continue to grow. With a true sack-machine DE, another stuffer at DT and a #2 CB and we are this years Bears and going to the playoffs for the foreseeable future. 

 

Also think early in the season, the O-line was much weaker.  The team did alot of experimenting in training camp and pre-season with lineups.  The down side of that is little time to build and continuity which probably of all the position groups in football, the O-line is the most important.  Think QB play also suffered there for the same reason, but not many other options there.  Hopefully they siign a couple strong FA for the line so the lineup is set in training camp

[Magox]

34 minutes ago, Mrbojanglezs said:

Honestly the best way to beat Allen is probably heavy blitz packages. He hasn't been good against the blitz and is less accurate when he is rushed

 

I think you will see more blitzes against him, with that said on a couple of the nice runs he made this past week they were on blitzes.  If they don't get to him and he's able to avoid the rush and either look down the field and go deep or take off running that could expose defenses.   But I do think that is how defenses will adjust, with more blitz packages.

[NoSaint]

11 hours ago, matter2003 said:

Daboll has come up with some interesting strategies for maximizing Allen's effectiveness since he his come back and it's starting to work really well because defense's are in a real bind with this.

 

• Playaction passes hope to get the linebackers frozen for a split second to allow receivers to get in behind them and let Allen attack 15-20 yards downfield or on go routes.
• Daboll's deeper route combinations cause defenders to be further away from the LOS covering the receivers and give more space to the receivers underneath as well. Sometimes there are literally no underneath receivers and Allen has huge amounts of space to run if he needs to with only  single MLB covering that area.
• Allen has more room to operate running the ball on scrambles as there are fewer defenders near the LOS to stop him and he can pretty much outrun anyone but corners and safeties making spies ineffective many times

 

It's actually kind of brilliant honestly and puts the defense in a bind.  If they drop further to cover the receivers, Allen can kill them with his legs.  If they stay up closer to stop him from killing them with his legs, the receivers should be open downfield on crossing routes over the middle.  I'm sure defenses will adjust over time but it will interesting to see what the adjustment is and how Daboll and Allen react to it...

 

This is why I am not buying the whole Allen is inaccurate take.  Allen has been very accurate from my point of view.  All of Allen's incompletions last week came on throws over 20 yards or throwaways except one. The other throws were pretty much right on the money and they were mostly lasers. Even that back shoulder throw to Jones that was ruled incomplete on replay review on the last drive was a great throw and he put it right where only Jones would catch it or it would fall incomplete.

 

It’s really the beauty of a big arm, semi mobile qb and lots of speed outside. Honestly, EJ was a whiff but it’s very much the Whaley vision. Goodwin, Sammy, harvin and even clay were the type to put vertical pressure and then a sturdy big qb that can move around a bit ala Big Ben. Extending plays with his legs and stretching with his arm creates so much pressure on a defense that a good back ends up like a knife through butter often. It takes a special qb to take the hits and make the throws though.

 

Truly, if luck came out a year earlier and we ended up with cam instead of dareus- there were a few years there where we might’ve been a VERY good team. 

Edited December 8, 2018 by NoSaint

[Jerome007]

1 hour ago, Magox said:

That article got me to thinking that is could be a long-term offensive strategy for Allen.   He arguably has the best arm in the league and elite QB level mobility/speed.  Just imagine Receiver routes for the most part running intermediate to deep routes down the field with the RB staying in to help chip block and then letting loose on delay freeing himself up with 1 on 1 coverage with LB's in the middle of the field with the threat of Allen running.  I think this is the perfect approach for Allen at this stage because it opens up the field and allows him to make reads easier than a bunch of bunched up receiver routes within 20 yards of the LOS.   

 

I may be going overboard but if we can get some speed weapons to compliment this approach this could revolutionize the league in a way that only a select few QB's could pull off.  

 

Allen has what it takes to do this because he has the mobility to buy enough time to allow receivers to get open on those sort of routes and the arm to make the 30-40 yard throws on a rope so that the DB's can't make the plays they normally can when the ball has to be lofted with more airtime.  

 

That article was eye-popping for me and I certainly hope that is something they continue to try to develop.

 

Yes indeed. Of course some good OLinemen and a couple of deep threat receivers are needed for this but this would be ideal,- and who knows that could already happen by next year. I don't see Allen becoming a touch passer that throws in tight windows with anticipation. I mean yes he will at times but that will never be his strength. But his insane arm strength, courage and pocket awareness, and running abilities, that is quite the package. He'll never have the style of Drew Brees or Brady so? He has other strengths, other tools to be build around. He is special.

 

 

1 hour ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

Given the state of the OL along the lack of experience at QB with Allen and the WR corps he has to be flexible in his approach.  There is nothing that can be counted on as the staple of the offense as a go to concept or play.   I expect that to change in 2019 and beyond. 

 

I agree. But I mean in the first scripted 15 plays. Do you feel they really take advantage of other teams's tendencies? That later in the game they prepare a big play with the previous ones and according to the opposing defensive players habits?

 

They do of course. For example DiMarco's big catch is such an example. I just feel BB or Reid for example are much better at it. Anyway, I like how everything seems to be coming together except on special teams. You sense this is a team that can leave the basement and go to the top as early as next year and might become a true contender in under 5 years with some good roster decisions.

Edited December 8, 2018 by Jerome007

[Big Turk]

23 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

It’s really the beauty of a big arm, semi mobile qb and lots of speed outside. Honestly, EJ was a whiff but it’s very much the Whaley vision. Goodwin, Sammy, harvin and even clay were the type to put vertical pressure and then a sturdy big qb that can move around a bit ala Big Ben. Extending plays with his legs and stretching with his arm creates so much pressure on a defense that a good back ends up like a knife through butter often. It takes a special qb to take the hits and make the throws though.

 

Truly, if luck came out a year earlier and we ended up with cam instead of dareus- there were a few years there where we might’ve been a VERY good team. 

 

Allen isn't semi mobile. Allen is flat out fast. Tyrod did not pull away from linebackers the way Allen does...he literally leaves them in the dust...its like when you were a kid and your little brother was chasing you...you knew no matter how fast he ran, he had no prayer of catching you...that's what it looks like when Allen starts running and linebackers chase him...its really almost amazing because I never expected that from him.

 

Big Ben only dreams of having the speed Allen does...

Edited December 8, 2018 by matter2003

[NoSaint]

16 minutes ago, matter2003 said:

 

Allen isn't semi mobile. Allen is flat out fast. Tyrod did not pull away from linebackers the way Allen does...he literally leaves them in the dust...its like when you were a kid and your little brother was chasing you...you knew no matter how fast he ran, he had no prayer of catching you...that's what it looks like when Allen starts running and linebackers chase him...its really almost amazing because I never expected that from him.

 

Big Ben only dreams of having the speed Allen does...

 

I knew someone would get hung up on that phrasing but.... I was referring to the prototype and design of an offense. you only need a semi mobile guy and allen passes that test was the point. 

 

ultimately we are better off with allen not racking up 100 yards. It’s fun and exciting and great to have in your back pocket for the right moment but it’s a symptom of a problem as a week in and out feat. In the end we are going to be most efficient if his legs move the pocket, extend plays and only occasionally steal a few third down conversions or the once in a blue moon designed play to keep a defense honest on options. He far passes that and creates a huge box that the defense has to genuinely cover sideline to sideline and line of scrimmage to 70 yards down field if paired with speed outside. 

 

 

 

[HOUSE]

I heard an interesting comment by Steve Tasker.

 

The longer throws are hurting Josh Allens completion percentage. To many longer 20 yard passes which are harder to complete.

 

Tom Brady is using far more 5-10 yarders which are easier to complete which drives his percentage up

[Big Turk]

26 minutes ago, HOUSE said:

I heard an interesting comment by Steve Tasker.

 

The longer throws are hurting Josh Allens completion percentage. To many longer 20 yard passes which are harder to complete.

 

Tom Brady is using far more 5-10 yarders which are easier to complete which drives his percentage up

Allen only had one incompletion last week that was not a throwaway or over 20 yards downfield.

[GoBills808]

1 hour ago, Magox said:

 

I think you will see more blitzes against him, with that said on a couple of the nice runs he made this past week they were on blitzes.  If they don't get to him and he's able to avoid the rush and either look down the field and go deep or take off running that could expose defenses.   But I do think that is how defenses will adjust, with more blitz packages.

Yup, this. He's going to start seeing pressure and wide DEs. That's when he and Daboll are going to have to utilize shorter checks that until now he was simply escaping and running for. All part of a young QB's growing pains.

[TroutDog]

4 hours ago, LeGOATski said:

Nice read. We were talking about this after the Jags game. Josh Allen has no check-downs. The run is his check-down.

I believe, as has been said in a number of articles, that the checkdowns are there, he simply doesn’t take them: he wants chunk yardage. 

 

It would be nice if he were to start utilizing them. He is far too valuable to consistently run. 

[Andy1]

3 hours ago, matter2003 said:

Allen only had one incompletion last week that was not a throwaway or over 20 yards downfield.

Correct - not counting throw always, For under 20 yds from line of scrimmage, Allen had 16 completions, 1 incompletion and 1 int. For 20 yds or more from los, he had 8 incompletions, 2 completions and 1 int. While the over 20 completion % isn’t great, he is throwing them and forcing the defense to respect that part of his game although it hurts his comp % stats. The number of pass attempts over 20 yds from los is the most of any qb. The only other qb close to that number of attempts is Mahomes. 

Edited December 8, 2018 by Andy1

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

10 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

What I like about Daboll is he obviously went to McDermott and Beane and said "if you want me to get effective play out of Allen with this talent around him I need some speed". McKenzie and Foster are not great players but they have helped the offense. 

 

I am relatively optimistic that Daboll will get significant improvement on offense in 2019. 

 

..so as he works through another career stop as OC, how does he get mentioned in another thread as a potential HC candidate?......where and why for the alleged meteoric rise when his previous OC stops have all be only for one year deals?.....what happened?.........

[Big Turk]

3 hours ago, TroutDog said:

I believe, as has been said in a number of articles, that the checkdowns are there, he simply doesn’t take them: he wants chunk yardage. 

 

It would be nice if he were to start utilizing them. He is far too valuable to consistently run. 

 

Some plays he has them, others he does not.

[The Now Moment]

Daboll did call plays for the mobile QBs at Alabama as well.  Personally, I am really excited to see what he can do with the next year's roster.  Wondering if Daboll changes the team's perspective on the type of wide receivers we should have.  Benjamin was far too slow to be successful with Allen.  Speed and the ability to separate I think is even more important with a player like Allen who can throw it as fast and as far as he can.  Hope we focus on adding speed to that WR core and also at the tight end position.  I think TE is a big need as well with Daboll.  

[ganesh]

10 hours ago, LittleJoeCartwright said:

My only difference of opinion with the OP is on Allen’s accuracy.  Yes, he missed on a few long ones but the balls were fairly close. I see it as when Allen just fires the ball like on intermediate routes, he’s pretty accurate.  Where he still struggles at times is on short passes and when the pass needs touch. He’s improved so much, I’m pretty confident that he will get better on those too.

I wish they had just put Allen under Center all through TC.  He would have been a much better QB

[Big Turk]

3 minutes ago, Buffalo30 said:

Daboll did call plays for the mobile QBs at Alabama as well.  Personally, I am really excited to see what he can do with the next year's roster.  Wondering if Daboll changes the team's perspective on the type of wide receivers we should have.  Benjamin was far too slow to be successful with Allen.  Speed and the ability to separate I think is even more important with a player like Allen who can throw it as fast and as far as he can.  Hope we focus on adding speed to that WR core and also at the tight end position.  I think TE is a big need as well with Daboll.  

 

Saw a video where Allen threw it literally effortlessly almost 80 yards in his Pro-Day...dude was standing at his 10 and the ball landed at the 12 or 13 yard line...it was just crazy because he didn't even look like he put much effort into it...like he was just playing catch in the backyard with someone...

[stosh64]

11 hours ago, Seoul_panther said:

Here’s an interesting article well worth a read off one of my favorite football websites. The author gives Daboll plenty of credit for putting Allen in a position to succeed and optimize his strengths:

 

https://thedraftnetwork.com/2018/12/07/brian-daboll-is-riding-the-josh-allen-rollercoaster/

Thanks for the article.

I love this quote!

"But credit goes to Brian Daboll, the first-year offensive coordinator for the Buffalo Bills, who has found a way to strap his offense to Josh Allen’s back, throw on a cowboy hat, and ride the wild bull like a rodeo star."

My hope is in a couple years Allen will be able to run the offense at the LOS like Kelly used to or like Brady does. We haven't really had a QB that runs the game from the LOS since Kelly.

I think Allen has the smarts and will be capable.

This kid is special.

[Big Turk]

Just now, ganesh said:

I wish they had just put Allen under Center all through TC.  He would have been a much better QB

Being under center is used less and less these days and I can't blame them...almost every number related to passing is higher from plays in the shotgun

[stosh64]

2 minutes ago, matter2003 said:

Being under center is used less and less these days and I can't blame them...almost every number related to passing is higher from plays in the shotgun

I think he meant taking all the snaps in TC, not literally lining up under center.

[The Now Moment]

Just now, matter2003 said:

 

Saw a video where Allen threw it literally effortlessly almost 80 yards in his Pro-Day...dude was standing at his 10 and the ball landed at the 12 or 13 yard line...it was just crazy because he didn't even look like he put much effort into it...like he was just playing catch in the backyard with someone...

Allen has phenomenal traits, just needs to develop.  The guy is tough too.  Getting a Buffalo QB jersey for the first time in life.