The Ringer calls Josh Allen "America's Most Mobile Mountain"

[Doc]

2 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Man, imagine if we did this for all qbs?  Mahomes should have had 600 yards and 8 tds!

 

Good for him.  I'd love to see Josh with Kelce (especially at the end of that Miami game), Hill and Watkins, behind that OL.

[PlayoffsPlease]

1 minute ago, Shaw66 said:

That's an interesting list.  Clearly, he has to learn to throw shorter passes.  Seriously.    Success in the NFL requires high completion percentage - that's what works.  A five-yard completion is better than a 12-yard incompletion, obviously.  That's what hapless was demonstrating, in a way, when he talked about Allen throwing to McCoy for a loss.   In both that case and downfield passes that fall incomplete, he isn't making all the right choices.   That just takes time, practice, coaching.   

I don't think Allen is the play caller.  And an five yard completion is no better than a 12 yard incomplete on third and 10. 

[The Wiz]

16 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

I think the continued dissing of Allen is evidence of the same press bias that is out there.   This guy writes very nicely and he SOUNDS authoritative, but I don't know what he's talking about.   It seems clear to me he hasn't been watching the games.   I think he looks at highlights and stats.  

 

Frankly, as much as I love his running, I don't get too excited about.  I loved Taylor running, too, but all that matters was whether he could play QB in the NFL.  He demonstrated that he could, but just marginally.   He couldn't get significantly better.  He looked like the same guy in Cleveland.  

 

It isn't about running.  It's about passing and running the team.   Allen makes an occasional bad throw, but he is NOT an inconsistent thrower.   His passing seems to keep getting better, with a lot of passes right where they need to be.   I keep thinking about the throw to Jones on the sideline at the end of the Dolphins game, the one overturned on review.   That was an outstanding throw.  He has a lot of those.   

 

What problems I see are minor.   He doesn't always get his feet set - every once in a while he throws a bit off balance.  I think he isn't seeing all the receivers all the time.   I saw something somewhere that said that he should be checking the ball down more than he is - he's always going downfield, even if it's a tight window, when it would be fine for him to take the checkdown, gets some high probability free yards and go on to the next play.  He has a lower completion percentage on those tight-window downfield plays.   

 

Allen has a lots of little things he needs to learn, lots and lots.   He's smart and he's motivated.   I don't doubt that he'll learn them.   The real point is that he is, today, a bona fide NFL starting quarterback.  Right now.   I think people who haven't watched enough to see these things just will be late to the party. 

Without having the all-22 I'm just going by what I remember seeing during games but it looks like he tends to go for the harder throws instead of taking the checkdowns.  I don't think that's smart but you got to love him going for the harder passes that could get you a first vs the safe dump that will get you less than 5 yards.  Yes, I know in the NFL you still need to take what the defense gives you but sometimes you just want to see someone go all out and I think he does that.

 

Now on the topic of checkdowns, I pointed it out in another thread a while back that I don't really think he has a lot of checkdown opportunities because they always need to keep 6 or 7 guys back to block because the line is so porous.  So with that you don't have the safety value of having your RB sitting 2-3 yards away from you because he is busy blocking a guy that got by the front 5.

 

I agree, he has a lot to learn still when it comes to what is the smart play and what is a big play but I get the feeling that he will keep learning what needs to be done.  And trust me, I was not a fan of picking him but you can't help liking what he has done and I am definitely excited to see what he can do when he is on the field.

[Doc]

2 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

That's an interesting list.  Clearly, he has to learn to throw shorter passes.  Seriously.    Success in the NFL requires high completion percentage - that's what works.  A five-yard completion is better than a 12-yard incompletion, obviously.  That's what hapless was demonstrating, in a way, when he talked about Allen throwing to McCoy for a loss.   In both that case and downfield passes that fall incomplete, he isn't making all the right choices.   That just takes time, practice, coaching.   

 

The pass to Shady was a short pass.  And without seeing the full play, it's hard to say when McKenzie was open. 

[Shaw66]

1 minute ago, PlayoffsPlease said:

I don't think Allen is the play caller.  And an five yard completion is no better than a 12 yard incomplete on third and 10. 

No. Allen isn't the play caller, but he has to decide what to do with the ball.   No one does that for him.   As Hapless pointed out, Allen wasn't thinking when he threw to Lesean for a six yard loss.   He knew where McKenzie was supposed to be, and he has to recognize that settling for zero yards with a chance for more is just better than giving it to your best runner six yards behind the line of scrimmage.   Shady has the potential to break a long run, of course, but a lot of choices in the NFL are about cutting your losses.  

 

Sean McDermott will differ with you big-time if you want discuss whether a a five yard completion is better than a 12-yard incompletion under almost ANY circumstances.  

[PlayoffsPlease]

Just now, Shaw66 said:

No. Allen isn't the play caller, but he has to decide what to do with the ball.   No one does that for him.   As Hapless pointed out, Allen wasn't thinking when he threw to Lesean for a six yard loss.   He knew where McKenzie was supposed to be, and he has to recognize that settling for zero yards with a chance for more is just better than giving it to your best runner six yards behind the line of scrimmage.   Shady has the potential to break a long run, of course, but a lot of choices in the NFL are about cutting your losses.  

 

Sean McDermott will differ with you big-time if you want discuss whether a a five yard completion is better than a 12-yard incompletion under almost ANY circumstances.  

I think your missing the bigger picture.  The Bills insane amount of penalties has put Allen in a hole more than any QB in the NFL likely .  He is throwing long pass attempts because he is forced to more often than not, which also means the defense is playing for the long pass making it doubly difficult. 

[The Wiz]

13 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

The pass to Shady was a short pass.  And without seeing the full play, it's hard to say when McKenzie was open. 

Here is the full play:

 

It looks like it was basically a designed check down and he wasn't targeting anyone else.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

9 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

The pass to Shady was a short pass.  And without seeing the full play, it's hard to say when McKenzie was open. 

 

Be my guest.  I watched the all-22 of that play several times.  McKensie was open well before McCoy turned and Allen threw to him for -6 yds. 

I'm not always right, but I don't cherry-pick screenshots that don't represent the play, either.

 

That's not to pick on Allen for 1 play, it's to point out an area where he needs development, IMHO, even more than he needs to develop accuracy. 

 

 

Just now, The Wiz said:

Here is the full play:

 

It looks like it was basically a designed check down and he wasn't targeting anyone else.

 

Very weird play design, if so.  Why not send McKensie downfield then, if he's not out there to be an outlet?

[The Wiz]

3 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Be my guest.  I watched the all-22 of that play several times.  McKensie was open well before McCoy turned and Allen threw to him for -6 yds. 

I'm not always right, but I don't cherry-pick screenshots that don't represent the play, either.

 

That's not to pick on Allen for 1 play, it's to point out an area where he needs development, IMHO, even more than he needs to develop accuracy. 

 

 

 

Very weird play design, if so.  Why not send McKensie downfield then, if he's not out there to be an outlet?

I thought the same thing but based on how quickly allen turned toward the left side of the field it makes me think that it was a decoy route or something like that.  Mckenzie looks like he fakes the grab on the hand off and then slows down like he knows the ball isn't coming he way.

 

It's possible he was suppose to be an outside target that allen just didn't feel like throwing to.

Edited December 8, 2018 by The Wiz

[PlayoffsPlease]

4 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Be my guest.  I watched the all-22 of that play several times.  McKensie was open well before McCoy turned and Allen threw to him for -6 yds. 

I'm not always right, but I don't cherry-pick screenshots that don't represent the play, either.

 

That's not to pick on Allen for 1 play, it's to point out an area where he needs development, IMHO, even more than he needs to develop accuracy. 

 

 

 

Very weird play design, if so.  Why not send McKensie downfield then, if he's not out there to be an outlet?

It was an awful play design. 

[GoBills808]

4 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Be my guest.  I watched the all-22 of that play several times.  McKensie was open well before McCoy turned and Allen threw to him for -6 yds. 

I'm not always right, but I don't cherry-pick screenshots that don't represent the play, either.

 

That's not to pick on Allen for 1 play, it's to point out an area where he needs development, IMHO, even more than he needs to develop accuracy. 

 

 

 

Very weird play design, if so.  Why not send McKensie downfield then, if he's not out there to be an outlet?

That's just a typical screen that gets blown up before it has a chance. McKenzie is in motion to move the defense away from the screen side, he's not ever getting the ball. The mistake Allen makes here is not throwing that ball into the dirt, he's never going to anyone but McCoy.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 minute ago, The Wiz said:

I thought the same thing but based on how quickly allen turned toward the left side of the field it makes me think that it was a decoy route or something like that.  Mckenzie looks like he fakes the grab on the hand off and then slows down like he knows the ball isn't coming he way.

 

It's possible he was suppose to be an outside target that allen just didn't feel like throwing to.

 

Then how to put this nicely?  Allen needs to get over his feelings.  At worst, he misses McKensie and gets the ball back to the LOS and it's 2nd and 10 vs 2nd and 16.

 

[The Wiz]

Just now, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Then how to put this nicely?  Allen needs to get over his feelings.  At worst, he misses McKensie and gets the ball back to the LOS and it's 2nd and 10 vs 2nd and 16.

 

I agree.  It was a missed completion that would have at least kept them at the LOS.  Even still, I'm not going pick on every mistake he makes since I don't exactly expect him to be doing everything perfect.

 

Not saying you are picking on him, just saying other people will.

[Shaw66]

16 minutes ago, PlayoffsPlease said:

I think your missing the bigger picture.  The Bills insane amount of penalties has put Allen in a hole more than any QB in the NFL likely .  He is throwing long pass attempts because he is forced to more often than not, which also means the defense is playing for the long pass making it doubly difficult. 

Well, that may be true in some cases, but I doubt in all.   

 

My fundamental point is that he's playing well.  Whatever the reason, he's throwing a lot of deeper ball, and those are always going to be lower completion percentage balls.  The point is that he doesn't have low percentage because he's missing a lot.   He's throwing harder balls to complete.  Now, some of that, I believe, is bad judgment.  I'd guess the coaches are telling him he should make some different choices.   But maybe not.  Maybe he's already making the choices they want.   

[Hapless Bills Fan]

Just now, GoBills808 said:

That's just a typical screen that gets blown up before it has a chance. McKenzie is in motion to move the defense away from the screen side, he's not ever getting the ball. The mistake Allen makes here is not throwing that ball into the dirt, he's never going to anyone but McCoy.

 

Allen can't throw the ball in the dirt.  He's in the pocket, inside the tackles.  Intentional grounding, 10 yds, loss of down.  Allen can throw the ball to, or in the plausible direction of, McKensie, and the worst that happens is he misses and the play goes back to the LOS.  Why is this so tough?

 

Come on, folks.  The difference between a "meh" QB and the top-notch Franchise Dude that we all want from Allen is the ability to tell when a play isn't gonna go as designed, and take what you can get.

[Shaw66]

2 minutes ago, The Wiz said:

I agree.  It was a missed completion that would have at least kept them at the LOS.  Even still, I'm not going pick on every mistake he makes since I don't exactly expect him to be doing everything perfect.

 

Not saying you are picking on him, just saying other people will.

Nobody's picking him apart.  We're talking about things that he could better.  

1 minute ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Allen can't throw the ball in the dirt.  He's in the pocket, inside the tackles.  Intentional grounding, 10 yds, loss of down.  Allen can throw the ball to, or in the plausible direction of, McKensie, and the worst that happens is he misses and the play goes back to the LOS.  Why is this so tough?

 

Come on, folks.  The difference between a "meh" QB and the top-notch Franchise Dude that we all want from Allen is the ability to tell when a play isn't gonna go as designed, and take what you can get.

Right.  It's Brady's genius.   He always gets the most out of each play, even if the most is an incompletion.  

[Hapless Bills Fan]

2 minutes ago, The Wiz said:

I agree.  It was a missed completion that would have at least kept them at the LOS.  Even still, I'm not going pick on every mistake he makes since I don't exactly expect him to be doing everything perfect.

 

Not saying you are picking on him, just saying other people will.

 

Understood.  It was just a play grabbed to illustrate my point that IMHO, the biggest development Allen needs is his field vision and field awareness and knowing on each play what he can do with the ball.  He's a rookie, he can and will make mistakes. 

[transplantbillsfan]

3 hours ago, LSHMEAB said:

Is this gonna be the new standard response?

 

Those that don't worship at the Josh Allen alter are to dissect every pass he throws and PROVE play by play how his passes missed the mark.

 

How about he improve his completion percentage so there's no need for such a test.

 

He can't run the routes and catch the balls, too...

 

 

 

 

or can he??? ?

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

If Allen runs for over 100yds again tomorrow, people are going to have to start taking notice here. We could be looking at one of the most dynamic running QBs in the modern era. Nobody is running for over 100yds 3 games in a row. Even running backs barely do it nowadays. I’m giving Allen 100 in the Jags win because taking it away for the kneel is *****

[LSHMEAB]

2 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

He can't run the routes and catch the balls, too...

 

 

 

 

or can he??? ?

This is exactly why some people are freaked out by the Allen cult members. And I like Josh!