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billvernsays

Josh Allen strategy

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2 minutes ago, Augie said:

By no means do I want him turning into Captain Checkdwn, but I’d like to see him do it a little more to see if he CAN do it. The 20-30 yard bullet plays to his strength - a huge arm. Does he consistently have the touch to throw that good dump pass? I’m not saying he doesn’t, I just haven’t seen enough to feel as comfortable as I should.  

 

Short passes were an aspect of Allen's game acknowledged by everyone knowledgeable (Allen, Daboll, Solak's contextual QBing) as a gap.

 

He's been working on it, and I do see solid improvement, but more work needed.

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Just now, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Short passes were an aspect of Allen's game acknowledged by everyone knowledgeable (Allen, Daboll, Solak's contextual QBing) as a gap.

 

He's been working on it, and I do see solid improvement, but more work needed.

he needs to work on all facets of his game....

 

The difference between that 2nd year QB that blooms or busts is their ability to work on their all around game and take advantage of teams having game film on them.

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5 minutes ago, billsredneck1 said:

going forward this is the number one thing i'm looking for from josh.  when he ran and crossed the los you could tell he had that split second blank and i think it was soley instinct.

that play has a lot in terms helping him mature. i hope we see him keep his eyes up just a second longer to try to find these guys.

 

this kind of situation makes a good measuring stick for the future. i hope to see him run less and throw more.

 

I think part of it goes back to a comment I made in another thread - Allen came into the league with NO idea of the speed and power he'd face in NFL defenders.

Wyoming did not face the colledge defenders the NFL disproportionately drafts from Ohio State, LSU, 'Bama, Clemson etc

 

So his first few games were a learning curve about what he *couldn't* do.  Now he's learned he has the moves and the wheels to evade these guys if he turns it up to "full throttle", and he needs to develop a sense of when he has time to stop, set, and throw (as well as his ability to throw off platform).

 

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2 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

Allen needs to trust himself to get it to his teammates when they're wide open, and trust his teammate (Shady) to be able to get at least as many yards.

Trusting any receiver on this team to do something that should be ordinary is a big risk. Even Zay who had a decent game did NOT make at least 2 important catches that he had his hands on. Allen trusted Charles Clay to make a catch on the last play that any decently skilled high school player not making 8 mil would make and you see what that got him. No, receivers have to EARN the trust of the QB or if I am Allen and know I am the best athlete in this offense and I want to win really badly I am less trusting of my teammates until they demonstrate they CAN be trusted, especially with his physical ability running the ball vs our "drop" rate. The evidence is clear.

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31 minutes ago, billvernsays said:

I understand. Brady is an established QB 

 

My point is that perhaps the coaches are telling him to try to figure out what he’s capable of and not capable of and NOT trying to take the easy passes which may even be the highest probably of a successful play because his development is more important than the outcome of the play/game.

 

When you put that in contrast with Brady who’s simply trying to get the best possible outcome for every play, he’s established he doesn’t need to take risks until he needs to when the games on the line he will. Ideally that’s where we want to be. But we aren’t exactly in the same position as the Pats currently. 

 

Most rookie QBs are afraid to throw the ball down the field and because of this they don’t attempt the passes, in turn they never learn, develop, and grow. 

I dont think he was knocking Allen I believe his shot was at our WRs.

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2 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

he needs to work on all facets of his game....

 

The difference between that 2nd year QB that blooms or busts is their ability to work on their all around game and take advantage of teams having game film on them.

 

Sure, John, but the short passes were a particular noted gap because for most QB they are "bunnies", gimmies, the equivalent of the basketball layup.

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1 minute ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I think part of it goes back to a comment I made in another thread - Allen came into the league with NO idea of the speed and power he'd face in NFL defenders.

Wyoming did not face the colledge defenders the NFL disproportionately drafts from Ohio State, LSU, 'Bama, Clemson etc

 

So his first few games were a learning curve about what he *couldn't* do.  Now he's learned he has the moves and the wheels to evade these guys if he turns it up to "full throttle", and he needs to develop a sense of when he has time to stop, set, and throw (as well as his ability to throw off platform).

 

And hes big enough to stiff arm a DE.  I still wish he ran over Ramsey though.

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10 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Short passes were an aspect of Allen's game acknowledged by everyone knowledgeable (Allen, Daboll, Solak's contextual QBing) as a gap.

 

He's been working on it, and I do see solid improvement, but more work needed.

 

Exactly, that’s why I’m eager to see a little more to see where he is in his progress. Just a curiosity thing. 

 

Having said that, I can’t remember the last time I looked forward to the next game as much as I do now, and he’s a big part of that. 

 

 

.

Edited by Augie

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7 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Sure, John, but the short passes were a particular noted gap because for most QB they are "bunnies", gimmies, the equivalent of the basketball layup.

What's odd about Allen is he seems proficient on some of the harder throws (and can make some throws because of his truly superior gifts that few qbs can even dream of making,) and yet he is behind most qbs in terms of being able to reliably hit on the "easy" throws. He works hard and is bright, so I don't see why he won't catch up on the "bunnies." If he does, look out . . .

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20 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Sure, John, but the short passes were a particular noted gap because for most QB they are "bunnies", gimmies, the equivalent of the basketball layup.

This all falls into that discussion about his accuracy and completion percentage and how it was skewed when it comes to Josh Allen

 

Because he didnt throw the bunnies it hurts his percentage......and of course because he has a cannon and needs to learn to take something off it

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Not sure if this is a strategy or more just his personal mindset.  Josh has serious swag and loves to push the ball downfield in search of the big play.  I was pretty distraught when we drafted him over Rosen, but he's absolutely changed my mind.  His attitude, charisma and mental makeup paired with his freakish physical gifts scream future superstar to me.   

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When you look at the crop of rookie QBs only Josh and Baker seem comfortable throwing the ball 20 yards downfield or more (with certain exceptions like a simple go route. Hard throw but an easy read).

 

That’s what I’m most excited about. He looks raw at times but most of his weaknesses seem much easier to correct than the weaknesses I see in Darnald, Rosen, & Jackson.

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2 hours ago, PaattMaann said:

 

are you talking about the sideline laser to Zay for first down when it was 3rd and long from their own 1 yard line and Allen was in the endzone? He had to roll out to his left because protection was horrible...we could be talking about different plays though because there was a lot of Allen to Jones connections.

 

I thought Allen had decent time on that play, but I’m pretty sure we are on the same play. 

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4 hours ago, billvernsays said:

He threw a ton of Ints his rookie year. Perhaps the Colts tweaked their game plan when they were going up against players like Bruce Smith so they didn’t risk getting their rookie franchise QB hurt. 

Im not speculating about what the game plan was for PM, that’s from Peyton’s own words. Obviously it worked out for him.

 

I’m not sure we are doing the same thing as JA didn’t check down much in college either. But I’m putting it out there for the people who still have concerns about his accuracy to point out that he’s not exactly attempting many “easy throws” good or bad it’s just the reality of the situation. This is evident by the fact that in the past 2 weeks Josh Allen has 2 of the 4 highest Air Yards per attempt for any game since 2016. 

 

Josh Allen vs Jax (2018) - 18.3

Big Ben vs Indy (2016) - 16.9 

Ryan Fitzpatrick vs Pats (2016) - 16.1 

Josh Allen vs Miami (2018) - 15.9

Isn’t Tim Tebow second in that stat?

 

also, the Bills didn’t have to have terrible receivers around Allen this year.  They just made poor choices.  Hopefully, they get someone else to scout receivers for them.

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3 hours ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

I'm definitely eating crow right now as I was on the start Barkley until he flops train before going back to Allen. Allen has looked like a completely different QB since coming back from the injury. 

 

In the six games before the injury he was getting sacked on 13% of his drop backs. 21 sacks in 6 games. Had a YPA of 6.0 and was only gaining 4.4 yards per rush.

 

In his last two starts the sack rate has decreased significantly to 3.7%, only 2 sacks in 2 games. His YPA has increased to 7.5 and his rushing has been extremely efficient at 11.8ypr. The only stat that has hovered around the same is completion percentage. But I am fine with that for now.

 

Extremely efficient? Yeah, i would say like absolutely extraordinary.

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3 hours ago, Augie said:

By no means do I want him turning into Captain Checkdwn, but I’d like to see him do it a little more to see if he CAN do it. The 20-30 yard bullet plays to his strength - a huge arm. Does he consistently have the touch to throw that good dump pass? I’m not saying he doesn’t, I just haven’t seen enough to feel as comfortable as I should.  

Burn the Captain Checkdown tapes Augie! 😄

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1 hour ago, NoHuddleKelly12 said:

Burn the Captain Checkdown tapes Augie! 😄

 

The tapes are gone....but my nightmares remain!  😱

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1st I want to say this thread was a pleasure to read.  Kudo's to all that participated.

 

So many very good points made.  Most of us agree that Josh Allen certainly is not ordinary. 

 

He saved my football season these last 2 games from being a near disaster.

 

I can't wait until Sunday.

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There are lots of good points here, but I can't really agree with the premise: all of us were pissed at how management handled the QB position midway through this season. Beane flat out admitted bringing in Derek 'mentor' Anderson so late was a mistake, so credit to him for saying that he was overthinking that keeping a third QB wouldn't have been worth the roster spot. Also, I do like the quote you brought up in regards to Peyton, but he and Josh obviously have completely different circumstances and skills upon being drafted. 

 

That said, I do have enough faith in Daboll to stay for this next season as we improve with the additions on this side of the ball. I was really excited watching Tyrod play his first year with us, but after he plateau-ed not so much. Josh definitely has single-handedly reinvigorated my excitement in this team, and winning last week would have been great on his career highlight reel and for keeping us in the hunt this year, but I'm not really even mad because aside from the NE game every single one of our matchups are most definitely winnable, especially at home.

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8 hours ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

 

another fine example of your point that jumped out during the game:

 

3rd Quarter ~ 6 mins left. Within a score (5  pts I believe). 

 

3rd and 12 from their own 2.  

 

How many times in the last two decades, in that situation, do the bills hand off or throw underneath to “get the punter more room.” 100%?

 

 

Betting there is not one time in that situation in Q3 within a score or even 2, backed up that far, they throw a pass past the first down marker from their own EZ. I’m not even sure Brees Brady or Rodgers are given that play to run. 

 

What happened in Miami?  JA fires a 22 yard sideline laser to Zay for a first down. Incidentally great route, sideline throw where only Zay catches on in bounds and protection held up fairly well. 

 

 

I can't remember any QB on any team making that throw in that same situation. If that was on Monday Night, that's all the sports shows would be talking about - that throw. It was insane. 

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1 hour ago, ColoradoBills said:

1st I want to say this thread was a pleasure to read.  Kudo's to all that participated.

 

So many very good points made.  Most of us agree that Josh Allen certainly is not ordinary. 

 

He saved my football season these last 2 games from being a near disaster.

 

I can't wait until Sunday.

 

I agree we need to do more of this. 

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9 hours ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

 

 

You know who needed this advice real real bad...Tyrod Taylor.  I think it is far to late for that old dog to learn any new tricks.

 

Thats exactly it. Tyrod is who he is, a game manager who’ll protect the ball and he has some wheels on him to get out of a jam, extend the play and perhaps get a 1st down.

 

He’s perfect for a team like the Ravens this year. Their defense is good enough that playing that way and not making many mistakes on offense will allow them to win many games. 

 

The problem with that style is you get a penalty and forget about it, you’re punting. Offensive turnover in your own RedZone and you’re probably going to lose the game. It’s just too hard to consistently win because once the game starts things happen.

 

Kinda like Mike Tyson said, “Everyone’s got a plan until they get punched in the mouth”

 

Tyrod did enough to help us break the curse and for that I’ll always be greatful, but it’s hard to watch Josh Allen play and not notice the stark difference. 

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I'm fine with him taking all the shots he wants. He wants to pass up the easy 5 yards for a shot 25 or more? 

 

4GTFM4X.gif

 

Fine by me.

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8 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Isn’t Tim Tebow second in that stat?

 

also, the Bills didn’t have to have terrible receivers around Allen this year.  They just made poor choices.  Hopefully, they get someone else to scout receivers for them.

 

Pittsburgh... they’d be the wr scouts I’m following around. 

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12 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

 

also, the Bills didn’t have to have terrible receivers around Allen this year.  They just made poor choices.  Hopefully, they get someone else to scout receivers for them.

 

 

 

What poor choices (plural) did they make about receivers? The problem wasn't scouting. It was that they committed very very few resources (draft picks and cap money) to receivers this year. We had far too many holes to fill, and there were always going to be areas neglected, it was just which areas.

 

The choice to pick Zay was the only one where we committed real resources to WR and it appears to be starting to work out pretty well.

 

The Benjamin trade was the only poor choice.

 

Other than that they've brought in veteran minimum kinds of guys or taken very cheap fliers on guys who haven't worked out. Not a lot of fliers do work out.

 

It's not like guys like Dez were going to come here this year, especially for peanuts. The Bills tried to get John Brown but couldn't get him. What WR would come to a team with our QB room on a prove-it deal?

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