Captain Hindsight Posted December 6, 2018 Share Posted December 6, 2018 3 minutes ago, HeHateMe said: He's was bad before just a few games this season. Carolina wanted to dump him for a reason. Beane had blind love for this guy... Eh there were rumors he tried to get guys like Landry and other Wrs. I think he took a shot on a guy he knew and it didnt work out. I'll never fault them for making the move. It made a ton of sense, it filled a need and it it had worked out, they were getting a great talent for fairly cheap. It didnt work, so they moved on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColoradoBills Posted December 6, 2018 Share Posted December 6, 2018 4 minutes ago, HeHateMe said: He's was bad before just a few games this season. Carolina wanted to dump him for a reason. Beane had blind love for this guy... There is no doubt that Beane was wrong about KB. Here is to hoping he learned from this and does better in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshAllenHasBigHands Posted December 6, 2018 Share Posted December 6, 2018 6 minutes ago, HeHateMe said: He's was bad before just a few games this season. Carolina wanted to dump him for a reason. Beane had blind love for this guy... <hard eye roll> The dude had two 1000 yard seasons (almost-second was like 940) and was on his way to a third when he was traded. He wasn't "bad." Beane thought they could make it work in Buffalo. It didn't. It happens. But he is right, you gotta take your shots. 4 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said: There is no doubt that Beane was wrong about KB. Here is to hoping he learned from this and does better in the future. I don't even think he was wrong. He took a chance and it didn't work. That doesn't make it wrong. Wrong is making a trade that was destined to fail in the first place. I don't see why that would be true with KB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColoradoBills Posted December 6, 2018 Share Posted December 6, 2018 3 minutes ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said: Beane thought they could make it work in Buffalo. It didn't. It happens. But he is right, you gotta take your shots. I don't even think he was wrong. He took a chance and it didn't work. That doesn't make it wrong. Wrong is making a trade that was destined to fail in the first place. I don't see why that would be true with KB. I'm not hating on Beane. KB failed miserably which surely wasn't "right". Letting KB go before the end of the season was the right thing to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshAllenHasBigHands Posted December 6, 2018 Share Posted December 6, 2018 7 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said: I'm not hating on Beane. KB failed miserably which surely wasn't "right". Letting KB go before the end of the season was the right thing to do. I see being "right" as being based on the decision. The outcome, however, is a different story. For example, lets say we trade for Drew Brees in the prime of his career, but two games in he tears his ACL and decides to retire. The decision was "right," but the outcome was obviously something different. Now, KB is not Brees, but hopefully you get my point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColoradoBills Posted December 6, 2018 Share Posted December 6, 2018 9 minutes ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said: I see being "right" as being based on the decision. The outcome, however, is a different story. For example, lets say we trade for Drew Brees in the prime of his career, but two games in he tears his ACL and decides to retire. The decision was "right," but the outcome was obviously something different. Now, KB is not Brees, but hopefully you get my point. I do get your point. I also agree a Brees trade is not the same as a KB trade. My original point was about Beane (a new GM) learning from this and minimizing outcomes like this in the future. Personally, I think he is a pretty smart guy and will learn from this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted December 6, 2018 Share Posted December 6, 2018 On 12/5/2018 at 2:37 PM, One Buffalo said: Interesting stat that confirms what many are saying... definitely an addition by subtraction move. great gouge. Wow. Bet it looks even worse if you split out Benjamin and Holmes, since overall Holmes has been running ~50% catch and Benjamin is at 37%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloHokie13 Posted December 6, 2018 Share Posted December 6, 2018 6 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: great gouge. Wow. Bet it looks even worse if you split out Benjamin and Holmes, since overall Holmes has been running ~50% catch and Benjamin is at 37%. At one point it was shown that you were better off to spike the ball than throw to KB, statistically speaking. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaBillsFanSince1973 Posted December 7, 2018 Share Posted December 7, 2018 watch him turn his career around now and start catching balls. no, he wont do that, will he? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeHateMe Posted December 7, 2018 Share Posted December 7, 2018 On 12/6/2018 at 3:05 PM, JoshAllenHasBigHands said: <hard eye roll> The dude had two 1000 yard seasons (almost-second was like 940) and was on his way to a third when he was traded. He wasn't "bad." Beane thought they could make it work in Buffalo. It didn't. It happens. But he is right, you gotta take your shots. I don't even think he was wrong. He took a chance and it didn't work. That doesn't make it wrong. Wrong is making a trade that was destined to fail in the first place. I don't see why that would be true with KB. Disagree... it was wrong.. Teams don't dump WRs after a 1,000 yard season unless there are major red flags.. kind of like the guy doesn't give a sh*t about football or care to stay in shape. We wasted almost 2 years on the guy, someone else could have been getting those reps and built chemistry with JA this yr. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshAllenHasBigHands Posted December 7, 2018 Share Posted December 7, 2018 41 minutes ago, HeHateMe said: Disagree... it was wrong.. Teams don't dump WRs after a 1,000 yard season unless there are major red flags.. kind of like the guy doesn't give a sh*t about football or care to stay in shape. We wasted almost 2 years on the guy, someone else could have been getting those reps and built chemistry with JA this yr. So then the only way to get a WR is through the draft. It’s not unfair, but your premise means we can never get a WR through trade or FA because the team before has given up on the guy. I disagree with the premise, but again I totally get it and think it’s reasonable. And, honestly, in any event, for a third and a couple years of play, I think it was worth the risk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigDingus Posted December 8, 2018 Share Posted December 8, 2018 On 12/6/2018 at 7:10 AM, Hapless Bills Fan said: That is true. The FACT also is, that Watkins was the #4 WR on the Rams last year with 39.5 YPG and a meh 55.7% catch % He's #3 on the Chiefs team this year with a good catch % of 73% and 52 ypg. The fact is, Sammy contributed more than that in 2014 with Orton and EJ Manual throwing to him and 2015 with Taylor. Yes, you're right they traded for or paid very well to acquire Watkins, but there has to be disappointment in the pay given the performance. It was a 3rd round pick I believe.... It would surprise me if Benjamin plays next year. I think he doesn't really love playing football. At this point, he's earned $15M in bonus and salary so why do something you don't love? Depending upon his tastes and whether he's invested it decently (and I'll say this, at least he doesn't make the news driving around with 'spice' in his car or for club altercations) that's more than enough money to buy a nice house with some property and a nice boat, sit on the porch, and go fishing. If he does play football, it would surprise me if he had a great season. "Dogging it" gets to be a habit, just like anything else a person keeps doing. Those stats for the Rams would be good enough for #1 overall on our team this year. Our best WR is averaging 38.2 YPG, 3 receptions, and has 4 TD's on the year (compared to Watkins' 8 TD's in 15 games). So even as their 4th most used WR, he'd be our #1 even with the stats he had. In regards to Benjamin, I would be shocked if he didn't play next year. Of course he's going to not look as into the game when you are part of this team compared to being with Super Bowl contenders like the Panthers & Chiefs. He had some of the least WR-friendly QB's throwing to him the past year & a half, and now gets to play on a playoff team, with a likely MVP winner at QB & a great offensive minded coach. The best he had to look forward to here was run blocking, a handful of targets in a loss, and to watch inaccurate QB's attempt to "manage" the game, as our HC wants to hide their weaknesses & limit the passing game as much as possible. The weather ain't great, the losing ain't great, the QB's ain't great, so how excited can you really be? Granted, he's a professional and should still put his best effort forward, but these players are human beings & succumb to the same emotions & pitfalls we all do. It's possible that being a 3rd or 4th option on a dominant team may even help his attitude even more than it would had he been pushed to a leading role. Less pressure, the best DB's covering other WR's, and more TD opportunities in the redzone. Winning, playoffs, more targets, a great QB, these things will all improve his mentality imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted December 8, 2018 Share Posted December 8, 2018 On 12/6/2018 at 3:05 PM, JoshAllenHasBigHands said: <hard eye roll> The dude had two 1000 yard seasons (almost-second was like 940) and was on his way to a third when he was traded. He wasn't "bad." Cherry picked stats with no context Yay!!!!!!!!! more please Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshAllenHasBigHands Posted December 8, 2018 Share Posted December 8, 2018 14 minutes ago, row_33 said: Cherry picked stats with no context Yay!!!!!!!!! more please Its not like it’s an obscure stat. Its the only stat. It’s the sole stat WRs are judged by. I understand cherry picking sucks, but the guy was a thousand yard receiver. That isn’t cherry picking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted December 8, 2018 Share Posted December 8, 2018 22 minutes ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said: Its not like it’s an obscure stat. Its the only stat. It’s the sole stat WRs are judged by. I understand cherry picking sucks, but the guy was a thousand yard receiver. That isn’t cherry picking. I think his point may have been that while yes, Benjamin racked up a lot of yardage, it was done on a disproportionately large number of attempts due to Benjamin's literally 50/50 catch percentage. Other WR in 2014 with ~145 targets had 10%-30% more yards. Similar observation in 2016: other WR more productive with similar # targets due to higher catch percentage. If yardage is in fact the sole stat WR are judged by, perhaps they shouldn't be. Productivity also matters. 17 hours ago, DaBillsFanSince1973 said: watch him turn his career around now and start catching balls. no, he wont do that, will he? TBH, I hope he will. Living in MO, I have a soft spot for the Chiefs and would like to see them make a good move that will contribute. I tend to believe, though, that 12 games of slacking is not something KB will be able to shed that easily. Whatever is in his head and causes him to alligator-arm throws he could catch (for TD no less) will likely stay there. Unless Reid has Some Magic he can work on the guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted December 8, 2018 Author Share Posted December 8, 2018 14 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: I think his point may have been that while yes, Benjamin racked up a lot of yardage, it was done on a disproportionately large number of attempts due to Benjamin's literally 50/50 catch percentage. Other WR in 2014 with ~145 targets had 10%-30% more yards. Similar observation in 2016: other WR more productive with similar # targets due to higher catch percentage. If yardage is in fact the sole stat WR are judged by, perhaps they shouldn't be. Productivity also matters. TBH, I hope he will. Living in MO, I have a soft spot for the Chiefs and would like to see them make a good move that will contribute. I tend to believe, though, that 12 games of slacking is not something KB will be able to shed that easily. Whatever is in his head and causes him to alligator-arm throws he could catch (for TD no less) will likely stay there. Unless Reid has Some Magic he can work on the guy. Not sure if it will be “magic” but they can line him up with Kelce in the red zone. The defense won’t be able to bracket Kelce. I don’t think he will be some giant contributor to their playoff run but he doesn’t really need to be. Just someone they can put out there to free up the real players a bit in the passing game, situationally. They aren’t paying him anything, it’s a decent move. If he’s a turd out there they can just move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted December 8, 2018 Share Posted December 8, 2018 16 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said: Not sure if it will be “magic” but they can line him up with Kelce in the red zone. The defense won’t be able to bracket Kelce. I don’t think he will be some giant contributor to their playoff run but he doesn’t really need to be. Just someone they can put out there to free up the real players a bit in the passing game, situationally. They aren’t paying him anything, it’s a decent move. If he’s a turd out there they can just move on. Apparently Watkins has been sidelined for 4-6 weeks. So actually, I think one could argue KC needs Benjamin to be a "real boy" for their team. KB's story preseason was that he's not a top wideout because he hasn't had an accurate QB throwing to him. Like the storied "real boy" named Pinocchio, I hope Kelvin's measured his nose because I think it's about to grow longer. Now one can argue at this point in the season, the pickin's at FA WR are slim and perhaps KB is the best of a bad lot. But one wonders if KC would not have been better off to do what the Bills are doing and give a shot to a hopeful who has been working hard on their ST or scout team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cripple Creek Posted December 8, 2018 Share Posted December 8, 2018 On 12/6/2018 at 3:05 PM, JoshAllenHasBigHands said: <hard eye roll> The dude had two 1000 yard seasons (almost-second was like 940) and was on his way to a third when he was traded. He wasn't "bad." Beane thought they could make it work in Buffalo. It didn't. It happens. But he is right, you gotta take your shots. I don't even think he was wrong. He took a chance and it didn't work. That doesn't make it wrong. Wrong is making a trade that was destined to fail in the first place. I don't see why that would be true with KB. Wrong is cutting him so he could move elsewhere. Should have kept him on the roster and on the bench. It was pretty apparent game 1 that he had no desire to do anything but the minimum for this team. McDermott was crazy to keep trotting his sorry ass out on the field Sunday after Sunday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cd1 Posted December 8, 2018 Share Posted December 8, 2018 21 hours ago, DaBillsFanSince1973 said: watch him turn his career around now and start catching balls. no, he wont do that, will he? vvvv THIS vvvv is why he won't. The guy does not stay in NFL shape and THAT is a very big tell about his attitude! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted December 8, 2018 Share Posted December 8, 2018 2 minutes ago, cd1 said: vvvv THIS vvvv is why he won't. The guy does not stay in NFL shape and THAT is a very big tell about his attitude! ....Jesus....looks like his water could break any minute.................. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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