John from Riverside Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 3 minutes ago, TheBeane said: Does this post get the nomination for "worst post of the day"? Until the OP's next post......yes 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blacklabel Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 People need to start realizing that the players they bring in here aren't being brought in solely for their on-field work. McBeane are looking for the same kinds of players in free agency as they are in the draft: hard working, team-first guys, and Murphy embodies that. They'll take a chance on a player with top-end athletic talent and an average (or below average) work ethic (i.e. Corey Coleman) in the hopes that perhaps that player will see how hard other guys are working and adopt that ethic for themselves. Of course, it doesn't always work out (again, Corey Coleman) but I like that they aren't completely talking themselves out of taking a shot on players with tons of athleticism but maybe not the greatest work ethic. Because if you have a strong locker room full of hard working guys, that should rub off on guys who come in here who don't work as hard. But yeah, it's not all about numbers and whatnot. I think Murphy is a decent player and you can never have enough solid pass rushers. The guy is insanely motivated and driven to reach the success he had in 2016 and hopefully he'll get there. If not, well, they still have a player that has a handful of sacks and a couple of forced fumbles this season so it's not like they're paying him for zero production. Staying healthy is obviously the key for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 43 minutes ago, Mark80 said: I just don't see how you are going to spend that extra $5M and make a better impact, so what's the point? Whereas I do. That is a serviceable slot receiver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noacls Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 33 minutes ago, Joeziehmer said: Do you know assignments for gap coverage, shadow zone, not spy zone but shadow and shade coverage along with gap. I’m guessing you talk well but never played. Thanks for enlightening us on that perspective. Neither do you. You have no clue what play was called or what his assignments were on that play. Nice try though and Madden 18 does not count.lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark80 Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 12 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: Whereas I do. That is a serviceable slot receiver. Right, but you are not already going to have plenty of money for that out of the $90? Why do you need $95M of cap space is what I'm saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColoradoBills Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 2 hours ago, Joeziehmer said: And, he got gashed running stunts and x-calls oh his side defensively. We are stuck for three years with Trent Murphy and could squeeze him down into a tackle spot to free up that gap and lane for a younger healthier body. LOL. Your answer is to move a 6'6" 260lb OLB/DE to DT? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan89 Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 Murphy is one year removed from a very serious injury and while he has struggled with injury when he is able to get out on the field he looks like a good rotational pass rusher (Which you need in the modern NFL.) So I would bring him back in 2019 for one more year. By then he will be 2 years removed from an ACL injury and the cap saving are good but not great so you might as well keep him and not open up a hole on the roster. I wouldn't hate them moving on from Murphy but I think rather than take a modest amount of dead money you are better off keeping him for one more year then get rid of him in 2020 when his deal produces almost no dead money if were to still be over paid and underproductive. 1 hour ago, DCOrange said: I'm not sure i understand the logic behind "We already have ____ cap space, why get more?" The answer is pretty simple. You can save $5 million by cutting Murphy and then sign someone significantly cheaper that will likely produce more. The amount of cap space that Buffalo already has should not be a factor in the decision at all. You're not cutting Murphy because you need cap space; you're cutting Murphy because he's more expensive than alternative options and also likely inferior to those cheaper options. The same is likely true in the case of LeSean McCoy and Charles Clay as well. The Bills should cut them, not because they need to clear more cap space, but because they can replace them with better players at a better price point. I am not sure how much more a player for under 5 million AAV will produce more than Murphy. Murphy has 4 sacks with 4 games left to go and he hasn't played all that many games nor has he been taking a majority of the snaps either. If he finishes with 5+ sacks in limited rotation with limited games played that's a pretty productive season for a situational player behind Hughes, Lorax, and Shaq. I also think that Murphy stands a chance of being more productive in 2019 because he will be farther removed from an ACL injury and the Bills can manage his knee over the full course of the off-season. So I think the Bills are better off keeping him as I think finding a 5+ sack situational pass rusher will either cost more than 5 million AAV or require more bonus money and a commitment through 2020. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColoradoBills Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 Trent Murphy's contract has a 3.5 million dead money hit whether he is traded or cut early or late next year. He will be going to camp and evaluated there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptnCoke11 Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 (edited) No reason to cut him. He’s been playing well past couple games. With Lawson’s cap hit only around 3 million its no problem keeping Murphy. Gives us three nice DEs Edited December 4, 2018 by CaptnCoke11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 Im on the fence....I dont want to cut him just for the sake of cutting him. We have plenty of free agency money. To me it is soley about whether he is going to be able to fight back through the injury bug.....production...... We have 90 million in cap space and so far 10 draft picks.....if Trent could get healthy then he is worth the money Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Misterbluesky Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 6 hours ago, Rc2catch said: What is the point in cutting Murphy? Do we need the cap savings? Does his salary next season prevent them from signing anyone? Read the post below again. 6 hours ago, GunnerBill said: It is $3.5m dead cap to get out after this year, but it is $8.5m to stay tied in. I think it is a no brainer to cut him. His production isn't worth the extra $5m, he has actually been often times a 4th DE behind Hughes, Lawson and Lorax (who plays there generally on pass downs). Add to that we need to draft a young DE early in the 2019 draft - certainly in the first 3 rounds, because Lawson while a fine player isn't a big pressure guy and Hughes will be 31 when next season begins and Lorax will be 36. The wall could come quickly for them and if you are left then with Murphy and Lawson you are in trouble. Dump Murphy, save the cash and take advantage of this excellent class of edge rushers to find a guy you can plug in on your line for the next 10 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCOrange Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 48 minutes ago, billsfan89 said: Murphy is one year removed from a very serious injury and while he has struggled with injury when he is able to get out on the field he looks like a good rotational pass rusher (Which you need in the modern NFL.) So I would bring him back in 2019 for one more year. By then he will be 2 years removed from an ACL injury and the cap saving are good but not great so you might as well keep him and not open up a hole on the roster. I wouldn't hate them moving on from Murphy but I think rather than take a modest amount of dead money you are better off keeping him for one more year then get rid of him in 2020 when his deal produces almost no dead money if were to still be over paid and underproductive. I am not sure how much more a player for under 5 million AAV will produce more than Murphy. Murphy has 4 sacks with 4 games left to go and he hasn't played all that many games nor has he been taking a majority of the snaps either. If he finishes with 5+ sacks in limited rotation with limited games played that's a pretty productive season for a situational player behind Hughes, Lorax, and Shaq. I also think that Murphy stands a chance of being more productive in 2019 because he will be farther removed from an ACL injury and the Bills can manage his knee over the full course of the off-season. So I think the Bills are better off keeping him as I think finding a 5+ sack situational pass rusher will either cost more than 5 million AAV or require more bonus money and a commitment through 2020. You don't need to use the savings on another pass-rusher. Buffalo has like 10 draft picks that can be used while spending that $5 million on another much-needed position. Murphy currently rates as the 75th best edge defender out of 107 that qualify per PFF. There are 6 rookies rated ahead of him this season. If you insist on using the $5 million on another edge guy, just in the range from guys rated #50-75 (where Murphy is), there are 13 guys being paid less than $5 million, so we're probably talking about at least 20-30 of them in total. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 7 hours ago, Joeziehmer said: When healthy he gets beat out by Shaq Lawson and has no impact whatsoever. You obviously haven’t watched any games in which he’s played. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rc2catch Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 1 hour ago, Misterbluesky said: Read the post below again. I did read it, but you’re creating a hole to fill right back in. What do they need the extra money for? Keeping him doesn’t stop them from signing any free agents or drafting anyone. It doesn’t hurt the team at all the keep him around even if it’s rotational depth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 3 hours ago, Mark80 said: Right, but you are not already going to have plenty of money for that out of the $90? Why do you need $95M of cap space is what I'm saying. It isn't that question though. It is the question you posed earlier. Can I get better value and production from that $5m and for me the answer is definitely yes. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan89 Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 3 hours ago, DCOrange said: You don't need to use the savings on another pass-rusher. Buffalo has like 10 draft picks that can be used while spending that $5 million on another much-needed position. Murphy currently rates as the 75th best edge defender out of 107 that qualify per PFF. There are 6 rookies rated ahead of him this season. If you insist on using the $5 million on another edge guy, just in the range from guys rated #50-75 (where Murphy is), there are 13 guys being paid less than $5 million, so we're probably talking about at least 20-30 of them in total. That's a fair point, I would prefer to keep Murphy but I am not going to be that upset to see him go for a 5 million dollar cap savings. Although I think Murphy could be in line for major improvement in 2019 as he gets another year removed from injury. Sometimes it takes a player an additional season to fully recover from a major ACL injury. I think getting 5 ish sacks and solid run defense in limited snaps as a rotational player is pretty good for 5 million. But its possible to better use that money elsewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffAlone Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 6 hours ago, Joeziehmer said: Do you know assignments for gap coverage, shadow zone, not spy zone but shadow and shade coverage along with gap. I’m guessing you talk well but never played. Thanks for enlightening us on that perspective. Aactually sir, I played my entirety of high school. CB/ WR. I'm aware of the logistics. Just not of your incoherent babble 5 hours ago, Joeziehmer said: X-call is the linebacker signal call to his lineman being an end or tackle. His gaps and calls got blown up and exposed against Miami. He played well. He didn't get exposed. He did what he was asked to do Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffAlone Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 5 hours ago, GunnerBill said: Whereas I do. That is a serviceable slot receiver. We have our serviceable slot receiver already. His name is Zay Jones. We are a top flight WR away from having a decent corp. That is dependant of course on whether or not Foster can become a solid second option on the outside, which I think he can, but Zay can do damage when/ if used properly. Imagine a Julio Jones type, Foster, and Zay working slot. With a gadget/ speedster type for a 4 wide set. Add a good TE and we're good imo. I'll hang up and listen to your thoughts now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted December 5, 2018 Share Posted December 5, 2018 2 hours ago, GunnerBill said: It isn't that question though. It is the question you posed earlier. Can I get better value and production from that $5m and for me the answer is definitely yes. Gunner, Stop with this campaign of ejection. You know very well that Murphy is going to be back next year. He will come back healthy and ready to be a solid contributor. McDermott likes to rotate his defensive linemen. He will be in the rotation. That might irk you but it doesn't the HC and GM who went out and got him. From a variety of standpoints this is a classic McDermott type of guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joeziehmer Posted December 5, 2018 Author Share Posted December 5, 2018 41 minutes ago, BuffAlone said: Aactually sir, I played my entirety of high school. CB/ WR. I'm aware of the logistics. Just not of your incoherent babble He played well. He didn't get exposed. He did what he was asked to do You weren’t a lineman so x-calls and stunts don’t really apply to you, right? Just coverage zones, reads, and man assignments. Not gap line assignments and shadow over line assignments or shade over an offensive line side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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