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transplantbillsfan

Josh Allen will be a 2019 NFL MVP candidate

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If the Bills manage their resources well in the offseason, they could be big winners next year.  The NFL world still thinks they suck so they will need a easy explanation for what caused the rise above expectations and Josh would be it.  This would make him an MVP candidate for sure.  Here's to a future where our playmaking, get the ball down the field, make defenders look like his little brothers and ultra competitive QB renders the majority of other NFL QBs play mundane by comparison.

Edited by JESSEFEFFER
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22 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

How many 2nd year QBs have been MVP?  Not many. It isn't about setting a low bar to avoid heartbreak it is about having a sensible conversation about where the bar should be. I said Trubisky's second year which isn't that much behind Goff's second year (slightly better completion % slightly worse TD:INT ratio... fewer passing yards but made up for by rush yards). 

 

If Allen had a Trubisky like 2nd season I'd consider that good progress and if it is slightly better and he is in the Goff region great. I think expecting a Mahomes like 2nd season is unrealistic. That isn't about heartbreak it realism. 

 

"Slightly above average" was the take you were agreeing with.

 

Meh to that.........but I do think Goff year 2 was better than slightly above average.......he was outstanding.

 

It's OK to expect Allen will make a jump into the top 8-12 most all-around impactful QB's in the NFL......which is considerably more than slightly above average, IMO.

 

When you meter expectations and accept modest gains you end up spending 5-10 years waiting on Matt Stafford or Marcus Mariotta.

 

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17 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

"Slightly above average" was the take you were agreeing with.

 

Meh to that.........but I do think Goff year 2 was better than slightly above average.......he was outstanding.

 

It's OK to expect Allen will make a jump into the top 8-12 most all-around impactful QB's in the NFL......which is considerably more than slightly above average, IMO.

 

When you meter expectations and accept modest gains you end up spending 5-10 years waiting on Matt Stafford or Marcus Mariotta.

 

 

Brady and Rothlisberger won the SB their second year

P Manning's jump from year 1 to 2 was remarkable

Wentz was the clear choice for MVP until he got hurt

Mahomes

 

The greats typically take a huge jump from year one to two. Allen has all the phyical tools to do it, now it's a matter of whether he can continue to fix his mechanics and the Xs and Os.

 

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1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

"Slightly above average" was the take you were agreeing with.

 

Meh to that.........but I do think Goff year 2 was better than slightly above average.......he was outstanding.

 

It's OK to expect Allen will make a jump into the top 8-12 most all-around impactful QB's in the NFL......which is considerably more than slightly above average, IMO.

 

When you meter expectations and accept modest gains you end up spending 5-10 years waiting on Matt Stafford or Marcus Mariotta.

 

 

I am not metering expectations or accepting modest gains. I am setting a realistic standard. Trubisky like year 2 is that standard. I'd describe that as slightly above average Quarterback play but it depends where you put average.

 

There is nothing in my posting history here or elsewhere to suggest I am someone who waits 5 years on a Marcus Mariota. Trubisky like year 2 is the acceptable standard. Anything better is a bonus and the gap between year 2 Trubisky and your standard of year 2 Goff is not actually that great. I'd then expect another jump year 3 - exactly like Goff made. I am the advocate for moving off Tyrod Taylor and Ryan Tannehill and Andy Dalton often years before these franchises actually do. 

 

I am not going to sit here making 5 years of excuses for Josh Allen and you are being disingenuous in implying that because I think you know I wouldn't. I stopped making excuses for Tyrod long before the majority of this forum faced up to the evidence that was there in front if their eyes. 

 

But equally I am not going to box him in too much for his second year. It needs to be a marked improvement on his first year, not just a little better, but he doesn't need to be and almost certainly won't be a true MVP candidate in year 2. 

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On 2/3/2019 at 8:20 AM, Chris66 said:

Didn't say he doesn't have potential. I said he has a long way to go to realize that potential. I also don't believe in that coaching staff to bring it out.

 

So at this point. I'm  not worrying about the Bills to do anything more than a wildcard birth at best

 

On 2/3/2019 at 8:26 AM, Chris66 said:

 

I think at best your 8-8. Cap space isn't going to help if the quality is kept by their teams. As far as draft goes most of them are day 3

 

Which is it?  Wildcard or 8-8 at best?  :blink:

 

Man... and those posts were like one right after the other.  :doh:

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On 12/2/2018 at 6:36 PM, transplantbillsfan said:

Sucks we didn't start him from the beginning and our playoff hopes are dashed, but these last 4 games will be fun to watch just thinking about our future...

 

our very near future :thumbsup:

 

 

 

Awesome post.  ***** awesome!!!  :beer:

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Jordan Palmer was on with Nick Cattles on ESPN 94.1 during super bowl week and had some interesting things to say about Allen:

 

“I genuinely believe they are going to put a statue of this kid up there when he is done. He is the most Buffalo quarterback ever. Think about this, this dude just moved to Buffalo as a first round pick and it is the biggest city he has ever lived in. He’s from Firebaugh, CA, and I’m from California and I had never heard of it when I met him. So then he goes to junior college in Reedley. Redding is a big city, Reedley is not. Then he went to his only offer at Laramie, WY. So he gets to Buffalo and its an awesome kick ass downtown, big city feel. Think about that, right, put Rosen or Darnold there. They live in LA, Orange County, San Clemente come on. So, the fit could’ve been better. He’s played in the cold, he has enormous hands, he’s got a howitzer attached to his shoulder and he’s also a tough guy who runs people over and celebrates and yells at people and gets fired up, kinda Phillip Rivers like but a different version of it. Dudes love him, he’s going to hang out with the guys after the game and fans love him. He’s just kind of a bad ass. So he’s the perfect fit for them. I’m not saying Sam could’ve had success there or Baker could’ve had success there but I think the guys all went exactly where they should”.





 

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23 minutes ago, racketmaster said:

Jordan Palmer was on with Nick Cattles on ESPN 94.1 during super bowl week and had some interesting things to say about Allen:

 

“I genuinely believe they are going to put a statue of this kid up there when he is done. He is the most Buffalo quarterback ever. Think about this, this dude just moved to Buffalo as a first round pick and it is the biggest city he has ever lived in. He’s from Firebaugh, CA, and I’m from California and I had never heard of it when I met him. So then he goes to junior college in Reedley. Redding is a big city, Reedley is not. Then he went to his only offer at Laramie, WY. So he gets to Buffalo and its an awesome kick ass downtown, big city feel. Think about that, right, put Rosen or Darnold there. They live in LA, Orange County, San Clemente come on. So, the fit could’ve been better. He’s played in the cold, he has enormous hands, he’s got a howitzer attached to his shoulder and he’s also a tough guy who runs people over and celebrates and yells at people and gets fired up, kinda Phillip Rivers like but a different version of it. Dudes love him, he’s going to hang out with the guys after the game and fans love him. He’s just kind of a bad ass. So he’s the perfect fit for them. I’m not saying Sam could’ve had success there or Baker could’ve had success there but I think the guys all went exactly where they should”.





 

That sounds like an old interview I'm pretty sure I remember him saying all of those things a while ago.

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4 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I am not metering expectations or accepting modest gains. I am setting a realistic standard. Trubisky like year 2 is that standard. I'd describe that as slightly above average Quarterback play but it depends where you put average.

 

There is nothing in my posting history here or elsewhere to suggest I am someone who waits 5 years on a Marcus Mariota. Trubisky like year 2 is the acceptable standard. Anything better is a bonus and the gap between year 2 Trubisky and your standard of year 2 Goff is not actually that great. I'd then expect another jump year 3 - exactly like Goff made. I am the advocate for moving off Tyrod Taylor and Ryan Tannehill and Andy Dalton often years before these franchises actually do. 

 

I am not going to sit here making 5 years of excuses for Josh Allen and you are being disingenuous in implying that because I think you know I wouldn't. I stopped making excuses for Tyrod long before the majority of this forum faced up to the evidence that was there in front if their eyes. 

 

But equally I am not going to box him in too much for his second year. It needs to be a marked improvement on his first year, not just a little better, but he doesn't need to be and almost certainly won't be a true MVP candidate in year 2. 

 

I don't think he needs to be an MVP candidate in year 2, either...

 

I just think he will be.

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10 hours ago, Warcodered said:

That sounds like an old interview I'm pretty sure I remember him saying all of those things a while ago.

Palmer said some of the same stuff after Allen was drafted but this came from an interview from last week in which Palmer was discussing what he had thought of Darnold and Allen after their rookie seasons. Palmer was also discussing the players he is training now to include Tyree Jackson.

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12 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

I don't think he needs to be an MVP candidate in year 2, either...

 

I just think he will be.

You should put money on it.  Odds would be insane for this.  

 

Hinest question:  has Allen ever won player of the year in a conference at any level?

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On 2/4/2019 at 8:45 AM, JESSEFEFFER said:

If the Bills manage their resources well in the offseason, they could be big winners next year.  The NFL world still thinks they suck so they will need a easy explanation for what caused the rise above expectations and Josh would be it.  This would make him an MVP candidate for sure.  Here's to a future where our playmaking, get the ball down the field, make defenders look like his little brothers and ultra competitive QB renders the majority of other NFL QBs play mundane by comparison.

 

I think that's exactly what really separated Allen and Mayfield from the rest of the 2018 class. The complete fire and will to win. Hypothetically even if Allen doesn't become a technician dissecting defenses he's going to still get by on his sheer athletic ability and as you said his ultra competitiveness. Those reasons right there are what really reassure me that's he going the be a top 10 franchise guy.  I hate the word potential but holy ***** those arms and those legs.....Well, that sounded gay.

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Just now, Buffalo Barbarian said:

No he won't ... He Will be the winner !!

And the BB curse.  Sorry Josh, it’s over over. 

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Just now, C.Biscuit97 said:

And the BB curse.  Sorry Josh, it’s over over. 

 

yeah its really been holding him back all this time.

 

 

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1 minute ago, Buffalo Barbarian said:

 

yeah its really been holding him back all this time.

 

 

He completed 52% of his passes and the guy who loved Landry Jones, that random TCU qb, and wanted us to traded prime Mario Williams for John Skelton just said he would mvp.  Yeah, I’m worried now. 🙃

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1 minute ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

He completed 52% of his passes and the guy who loved Landry Jones, that random TCU qb, and wanted us to traded prime Mario Williams for John Skelton just said he would mvp.  Yeah, I’m worried now. 🙃

 

hey Skeleton is flourishing as car salesman!

 

 

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19 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I am not metering expectations or accepting modest gains. I am setting a realistic standard. Trubisky like year 2 is that standard. I'd describe that as slightly above average Quarterback play but it depends where you put average.

 

There is nothing in my posting history here or elsewhere to suggest I am someone who waits 5 years on a Marcus Mariota. Trubisky like year 2 is the acceptable standard. Anything better is a bonus and the gap between year 2 Trubisky and your standard of year 2 Goff is not actually that great. I'd then expect another jump year 3 - exactly like Goff made. I am the advocate for moving off Tyrod Taylor and Ryan Tannehill and Andy Dalton often years before these franchises actually do. 

 

I am not going to sit here making 5 years of excuses for Josh Allen and you are being disingenuous in implying that because I think you know I wouldn't. I stopped making excuses for Tyrod long before the majority of this forum faced up to the evidence that was there in front if their eyes. 

 

But equally I am not going to box him in too much for his second year. It needs to be a marked improvement on his first year, not just a little better, but he doesn't need to be and almost certainly won't be a true MVP candidate in year 2. 

 

 

Oh I know you aren't one to make excuses for QB play..........I think you were agreeing in a relatively emphatic manner with a take which is less than what you actually expect.   

 

 

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2 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

You should put money on it.  Odds would be insane for this.  

 

Hinest question:  has Allen ever won player of the year in a conference at any level?

 

Honest question, did Matt Ryan or Tom Brady before they won league MVP?

 

Why do you think it matters?

 

Allen was a late bloomer physically and, unlike most QBs nowadays, was a multi-sport athlete rather than focusing solely on football.  It shouldn't come as any surprise based on his history that he didn't really have much of a chance of winning MVP in HS, JuCo, or in the WAC.

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4 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

He completed 52% of his passes and the guy who loved Landry Jones, that random TCU qb, and wanted us to traded prime Mario Williams for John Skelton just said he would mvp.  Yeah, I’m worried now. 🙃

 

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15 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

You should put money on it.  Odds would be insane for this.  

 

Hinest question:  has Allen ever won player of the year in a conference at any level?

 

Here's what frustrates me:

 

I completely understand your position because I've shared it. It's the position of the avid but tunnel visioned football fan who relies heavily on the analytics that have become so prominent in the NFL.

 

That was the exact cause of my distaste for Allen as a prospect and my immediate disgust over drafting him--I literally threw my phone across the room when we drafted him... but don't worry, it was a flip phone, thus, a tank :thumbsup:.

 

But knowing how tied I would be to this guy for at least 2-3 years, I decided to not merely focus on Wins, Losses, school size, Conference, stats, Awards, etc. 

 

Scouts don't actually look at any of those. You realize that, right?

 

So I watched as many of his college games as I could. I saw a natural thrower of the football. He made mistakes. He threw interceptions. But he was a natural passer, unlike our previous 1st round draft pick at the position, who looked robotic from the start. Allen's mechanics needed work, but only in the lower body, not the upper body. Then I researched... baseball pitcher, so that made sense.

 

Then I did more research.

 

Tiny, tiny tiny Northern California town.

 

Then I did more research.

 

3-sport athlete who didn't concentrate in one sport or go to all those QB camps. Part of that was also because he was a late bloomer, probably.

 

If you watch even this past week Allen's little golf interview where he's competing with Fitz, Allen specifically says he didn't even develop arm strength until he was a Sophomore in High School when he was 5'10" and 145 lbs.

 

Dude, I was 5'10" and 145 lbs in 10th grade!!! And I sure as hell didn't grow much after considering I'm now 6'1" and 170 lbs. And no way in hell would I have ever even been thought off as a distant second or third or fourth thought as having the sheer stature to play QB.

 

Allen just grew late. That matters.

 

That's why he went JuCo.

 

From there, sorry, but I gotta refer to his wiki (and you might want to just read up on him, anyway):

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josh_Allen_(quarterback)

Reedley's offensive coordinator at the time, Ernie Rodriguez, recalled in Eisenberg's story, "He was putting up ungodly numbers and making some incredible throws, but he was getting no love. I didn’t understand it. I couldn’t believe that nobody wanted him."[2] Allen did not play in the team's first three games in 2014, but in the next game ran for four touchdowns after coming off the bench, and soon became the team's starter,[1] throwing for 25 touchdowns with only 4 interceptions for the rest of the season.[2] By then, he had grown to 6'5" and 210 pounds (1.96 m, 95 kg), and his coaches at Reedley thought that he would soon receive many FBS scholarship offers

 

So he ends up in the Mountain West. Hurt year 1. Great year 2. NFL talent exodus. Struggled year 3.

 

But watch him play.

 

He was all they had... not so dissimilar from Buffalo this year.

 

So listen bro. I get it. I was with you. But time to let go of your stubborn beliefs already.

Edited by transplantbillsfan

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1 hour ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

Here's what frustrates me:

 

I completely understand your position because I've shared it. It's the position of the avid but tunnel visioned football fan who relies heavily on the analytics that have become so prominent in the NFL.

 

That was the exact cause of my distaste for Allen as a prospect and my immediate disgust over drafting him--I literally threw my phone across the room when we drafted him... but don't worry, it was a flip phone, thus, a tank :thumbsup:.

 

But knowing how tied I would be to this guy for at least 2-3 years, I decided to not merely focus on Wins, Losses, school size, Conference, stats, Awards, etc. 

 

Scouts don't actually look at any of those. You realize that, right?

 

So I watched as many of his college games as I could. I saw a natural thrower of the football. He made mistakes. He threw interceptions. But he was a natural passer. His mechanics needed work, but only in the lower body, not the upper body. Then I researched... baseball pitcher, so that made sense.

 

Then I did more research.

 

Tiny, tiny tiny Northern California town.

 

Then I did more research.

 

3-sport athlete who didn't concentrate in one sport or go to all those QB camps. Part of that was also because he was a late bloomer, probably.

 

If you watch even this past week Allen's little golf interview where he's competing with Fitz, Allen specifically says he didn't even develop arm strength until he was a Sophomore in High School when he was 5'10" and 145 lbs.

 

Dude, I was 5'10" and 145 lbs in 10th grade!!! And I sure as hell didn't grow much after considering I'm now 6'1" and 170 lbs. And no way in hell would I have ever even been thought off as a distant second or third or fourth thought as having the sheer stature to play QB.

 

Allen just grew late. That matters.

 

That's why he went JuCo.

 

From there, sorry, but I gotta refer to his wiki (and you might want to just read up on him, anyway):

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josh_Allen_(quarterback)

Reedley's offensive coordinator at the time, Ernie Rodriguez, recalled in Eisenberg's story, "He was putting up ungodly numbers and making some incredible throws, but he was getting no love. I didn’t understand it. I couldn’t believe that nobody wanted him."[2] Allen did not play in the team's first three games in 2014, but in the next game ran for four touchdowns after coming off the bench, and soon became the team's starter,[1] throwing for 25 touchdowns with only 4 interceptions for the rest of the season.[2] By then, he had grown to 6'5" and 210 pounds (1.96 m, 95 kg), and his coaches at Reedley thought that he would soon receive many FBS scholarship offers

 

So he ends up in the Mountain West. Hurt year 1. Great year 2. NFL talent exodus. Struggled year 3.

 

But watch him play.

 

He was all they had... not so dissimilar from Buffalo this year.

 

So listen bro. I get it. I was with you. But time to let go of your stubborn beliefs already.

 

Exactly.  He just IS a QB.  I've said it from the first time I actually watched him play (YouTube, right before the draft).  He moved and acted and played like a QB.  Any concerns about if he'd learn and improve- mechanically or otherwise- were answered at the end of this year when he grew better every game.  But WATCH the kid play.  He just has that proverbial "it."  This is clear as day to anyone with eyes. 

Edited by BringBackFlutie
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