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transplantbillsfan

Josh Allen will be a 2019 NFL MVP candidate

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Won’t be surprised if kiko takes a cheap shot in the final game after being embarrassed over and over again by Allen. 

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9 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:

He's really not that erratic and inaccurate even now.

 

Another poster bringing up Josh Allen's pass accuracy problem.  When are you people going to start listening to what you're saying?

 

:thumbdown:

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He's gotta improve as a passer first. Teams will scout him and play him as a runner and force him to make throws. Can he make plays from the pocket will determine his future. 

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2 hours ago, PearlHowardman said:

 

Another poster bringing up Josh Allen's pass accuracy problem.  When are you people going to start listening to what you're saying?

 

:thumbdown:

 

Make fun if you want, but he's been pretty accurate, and he's got an entire NFL offseason to work, which we all know he's going to do.

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2 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

 

 

Everyone loves the long ball but I can’t imagine this is something you want to live and die by on a weekly basis. I like that teams will have to respect the intermediate/long stuff but we should take advantage of that by scheming short and easy completions.

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1 minute ago, Bangarang said:

 

Everyone loves the long ball but I can’t imagine this is something you want to live and die by on a weekly basis. I like that teams will have to respect the intermediate/long stuff but we should take advantage of that by scheming short and easy completions.

 

I think that's something Daboll is going to have to scheme more for in the offseason, hopefully with better personell at WR. 

 

I picture more of what the passing game looked like in the Vikings game than anything.

 

Right now half the time Allen just looks like he's trying to make lemonade outta lemons, or Chicken salad outta chicken $h!+... whichever metaphor works for you.

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12 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

I think that's something Daboll is going to have to scheme more for in the offseason, hopefully with better personell at WR. 

 

I picture more of what the passing game looked like in the Vikings game than anything.

 

Right now half the time Allen just looks like he's trying to make lemonade outta lemons, or Chicken salad outta chicken $h!+... whichever metaphor works for you.

He's trying to make lemonade out of chickenpoop.

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On 12/2/2018 at 3:47 PM, GunnerBill said:

No he won't be. 

 

Just development and progression would be enough..

 

Why?  I mean why can’t he?  Goff was awful as a rookie (Allen already showing more as a rookie than Goff did his rookie year) and was an MVP candidate his 2nd year.  I mean literally by the time his rookie year ended there was tons of bust talk on Goff.

 

It’s no secret you strongly felt we took the wrong Josh, but even now as our Josh is proving those doubts wrong you still seem barley luke warm in him.  I mean all Josh has done is keep exceeding expectations and showing rapid improvements going back to before the draft.  

 

All the negatives on him, he went and worked on his fundamentals and blew people away at the bowl and combine.  Then he was supposed to be so raw he would need to sit a year, some here were claiming 2 years he would need to sit.  Then he narrowly loses out on the starting gig but gets it half way through week 1 anyway.  

 

Then in what everyone said was an unwinnable game in his first road start at Minny and only his 2nd start he comes out and smashes the Vikings.  

 

Then facing a tough Jags defense and coming off injury, most doubted that he would play well.  But he comes out strong and beats them in one of his best games of the year.

 

He follows that up with another strong performance against Miami and keeps showing growth again. 

 

I think its time people stop doubting his ability to develop and grow and start realizing this kid keeps making significant improvements in short periods of time.  

 

With this defense, a full off season taking all first team reps as undisputed starter, and some new blockers and weapons, we very well could be a very good team next season and Allen could be poised for a big second year.  Nothing is guaranteed, but to take a hard stance that he can’t seems like a risky bet right now for you considering what I just said above.

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So, right back to the old habits, hunh? Wild overoptimism about Bills QBs? Tyrod was a leader too. He cared too.

 

It would be nice, but the odds are against it. When not talking about QBs you've been pretty successful at predicting general Bills trends. Whereas when discussing QBs you've been over-Koolaided every time. Thing to do here is self-evaluate, figure out your tendencies and get better.

 

Josh got a lot better from sitting the past few weeks and learning. He stands a chance of being really good down the road. It's unlikely to happen as soon as you're saying. And yeah, there are real comparisons to Newton, a QB who was less of a developmental guy than Allen, but how long did Cam take to figure out the passing game?

 

He still looks promising, and there's good reason to be hopeful, especially in the longer-term.

 

 

Edited by Thurman#1
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10 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Why?  I mean why can’t he?  Goff was awful as a rookie (Allen already showing more as a rookie than Goff did his rookie year) and was an MVP candidate his 2nd year.  I mean literally by the time his rookie year ended there was tons of bust talk on Goff.

 

So on this... I was almost the lone voice here after Goff's rookie year saying "the numbers lie, the kid played better than them, he will be good." Then his development was turbo charged by the best offensive mind in football and still he wasn't really a true MVP candidate in his second year (now he is in his third year, that is for sure). 

 

I think Goff got as close as possible the perfect conditions and still wasn't and Goff was a much more polished passer coming out of college. A Mitch Trubisky year 1 to 2 bump is much more what I am expecting and that is fine and would be decent progress. 

1 minute ago, Thurman#1 said:

So, right back to the old habits, hunh? Wild overoptimism about Bills QBs? Tyrod was a leader too. He cared too.

 

It would be nice, but the odds are against it. When not talking about QBs you've been pretty successful at predicting general Bills trends. Whereas when discussing QBs you've been over-Koolaided every time. Thing to do here is self-evaluate, figure out your tendencies and get better.

 

He got a lot better from sitting the past few weeks and learning. He stands a chance of being really good down the road. It's unlikely to happen as soon as you're saying. And yeah, there are real comparisons to Newton, a QB who was less of a developmental guy than Allen, but how long did Cam take to figure out the passing game?

 

He still looks promising, and there's good reason to be hopeful, especially in the longer-term.

 

 

 

Agree totally with this..

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12 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

So on this... I was almost the lone voice here after Goff's rookie year saying "the numbers lie, the kid played better than them, he will be good." Then his development was turbo charged by the best offensive mind in football and still he wasn't really a true MVP candidate in his second year (now he is in his third year, that is for sure). 

 

I think Goff got as close as possible the perfect conditions and still wasn't and Goff was a much more polished passer coming out of college. A Mitch Trubisky year 1 to 2 bump is much more what I am expecting and that is fine and would be decent progress. 

 

Agree totally with this..

 

I’m not saying he will be an MVP candidate, but I also won’t say he can’t be.  I also reference Trubisky as a 2nd year reference for Josh too.

 

However:  As a fan of the Rams too, I have to take some exception here on why you said Goff took a leap by heaping it all on McVay.  I think McVay is a great young coach, but that teams is also loaded with weapons which helps make him look like a genius.  But he’s made a lot of bad mistakes too, he’s not infallible like some make him out to be.  The last offensive series against Chiefs was the three dumbest consecutive play calls I have ever seen in a football game.  I’m a big fan of his, but he does get over exaggerated a bit.

 

Goffs rookie year, Rams OL was awful and the WR group was not much better than ours is this year.  Even Gurley stunk.  They rebuilt the OL and brought into two major upgrades and also completely over hauled the pass catchers adding Watkins, Woods, Kupp, and Garrett.  This habit everyone has to give McVay all the credit is over the top.  I don’t say that to degrade McVay, I am a fan, but it’s also short sighted to heap all of it on him and ignore the massive offensive personnel overhaul they did in one season.

 

If we make similar moves and add two good upgrades on the OL and overhaul the WR group, it’s reasonable to think Allen could be in line for a significant jump year 2 as well.  

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On ‎12‎/‎2‎/‎2018 at 6:57 PM, Magox said:

 

It's not a coincidence that those that were emotionally invested against him as soon as we picked him are still against him today.  Albeit he is making believers of many of those that weren't on team Allen from day one and for all of those that believed he could be something special, hardly any of those feel that hes been disappointing.  

 

Hes over performing expectations 

 

 

Agree, I went to the game against Jacksonville, only second game I have been to all year.  What I saw is a kid that has major league talent.  He is making some throws that not many QBS could make.  I was actually against drafting him because of his accuracy issues.  I still think he needs to clean that up but this guy is must see TV right now.  I imagine it will only get better next year as he gets more comfortable in the pocket.  

5 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

 

 

 

This is what is most encouraging for me.  He loves pushing the ball downfield & he has the arm to do it.  I watched the NE/Vikes game.  Both Brady & Cousins all they did was throw 5 yard passes all game.  Boring football.

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On December 2, 2018 at 8:30 PM, La Jolla said:

Didn’t Josh start half way through first game of the season?

 

He needs a better caste around him. 

 

Tru dat. Let's get some Brahmins on the team, asap.

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10 hours ago, Bangarang said:

 

Everyone loves the long ball but I can’t imagine this is something you want to live and die by on a weekly basis. I like that teams will have to respect the intermediate/long stuff but we should take advantage of that by scheming short and easy completions.

He does zero checkdowns but these are easy to add. And I was so glad to see DiMarco go for a long gain. With the deep pass threat, Allen's runs and long YAC plays by RBs, TEs, FB will be available too. Daboll should have some fun tools to devise game plans around next year! I hope he is MVP but if he is in 2020 I'm fine with it too 😛

 

 

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That was ridiculous. The rook is growing. There were a lot of plays on that tape no QB weve had in years would make.

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I hope you are right in that he has that Goff/Wentz like second year where he breaks out. I think the team will upgrade the Offensive talent around Allen greatly (with the cap space and another draft class they certainly have the tools to do so.) But I think Allen's progression won't be quite as dramatic. I could see him being more like the Bears QB who takes a nice significant step forward in year 2. 

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18 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

So, right back to the old habits, hunh? Wild overoptimism about Bills QBs? Tyrod was a leader too. He cared too.

 

It would be nice, but the odds are against it. When not talking about QBs you've been pretty successful at predicting general Bills trends. Whereas when discussing QBs you've been over-Koolaided every time. Thing to do here is self-evaluate, figure out your tendencies and get better.

 

Josh got a lot better from sitting the past few weeks and learning. He stands a chance of being really good down the road. It's unlikely to happen as soon as you're saying. And yeah, there are real comparisons to Newton, a QB who was less of a developmental guy than Allen, but how long did Cam take to figure out the passing game?

 

He still looks promising, and there's good reason to be hopeful, especially in the longer-term.

 

Actually, much like you or any other person on here, I've been right and I've been wrong about any number of things, including QBs

 

I was dead wrong in my pre draft evaluation of Allen. I'm absolutely guilty of looking at college production and competition and using a kind of "analytics" judgement on Allen rather than doing a deep dive into his history and background and "game film." 

 

I think I have a lot of company there.

 

I've been wrong, most notably and recognizably, about Taylor and EJ. I could nitpick and point out certain things about each guy I argued that were taken wildly out of context, were serious misrepresentations, or were actually correct, but I've moved on from both guys and have been true to my word once Taylor was traded (one of those nuances I could argue I was right about, considering I said Taylor would be on the team this year UNLESS McBeane were offered substantially more than people projected Taylor was worth, which was something like a 5th round pick. I think the 1st pick of the 3rd round qualifies as substantially more), since I said I definitely wouldn't start a new thread about Taylor and would generally avoid any Taylor conversation since he's no longer a Bills QB. 

 

I've followed through with all of that.

 

I've also been right about QBs. I said it didn't make sense to get rid of Fitz back when we did, despite his contract and despite the fact we would obviously--and needed to--draft a QB in the 1st round of the 2013 draft.

 

And more recently, I've been about as right as you can be about Nate Peterman since preseason LAST YEAR, when I said and have continued to say that I didn't think he has a strong enough arm in the NFL and simply wasn't an NFL QB.

 

I also said Allen would and should be named starter against Baltimore back during OTAs in May. I was wrong about the predictive "would" (though clearly not by very much considering it took a mere 30 minutes of football for our HC to realize his huge mistake), but obviously I was right about the evaluative "should." 

 

Thank you for acknowledging the "general Bills trends" I've been correct on, because I actually think this ties into a Bills trend coming next year:

 

He's going to be surrounded by significantly more talent on offense next year.

 

Beane and McDermott are about to make a deep dive into the 2019 NFL Free Agent class with the $90 million in Cap space freed up and very few players on the Bills roster we will need to commit that money to. Beane also looks like a great draft GM. I expect a massively revamped offense this offseason with relatively little resources--money or draft picks--going towards our currently stellar (I think they're Elite) defense.

 

All this, combined with his own individual desire to get better and be a leader and a full NFL offseason to work on his game, both individually and also building chemistry with his WRs and TEs and RBs and OL for months longer than he did this past offseason.

 

Plus, he's going to be in the same offensive system with Daboll for consecutive years.

 

 

I didn't say Allen will be a 2019 NFL MVP, but I don't think it's remotely a leap to say he's going to continue the trend of sophomore NFL QBs (Goff, Wentz, Mahomes) becoming a serious part of the dialogue for NFL MVP next season.

Edited by transplantbillsfan
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I love this thread, @transplantbillsfan

 

And... Josh has 2 4th quarter comebacks in the NFL this year even with this garbage offense, meanwhile Tyrod has never won a game when down by 1 point or more in the second half.

 

Rookie? Of course he is, and he makes the mistakes to prove it, but his Phil Rivers-esque fire, Elway-esque arm, and nose for the endzone are impressive. He is even better than Tyrod at TTs own game (rushing).

 

But my favorite part is his leadership. Firing up the D, taking ownership and subsequently blame for missed throws or incompletions, poise, and command of the team are all well beyod his years. He has a real chance to be special.

 

Idk about MVP yet, but special.

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