McDermott’s conservative garbage

[Billsfan1972]

15 minutes ago, Bill_with_it said:

No it wasnt, we had 117 total yards in the first half, 7 offensive penalties, a touchdown reversed, and a muffed catch, a missed extra point, and an ivory fumble in the first half with the ball at the 10 yard line with 40 seconds to go. You are completely wrong and benefit from hindsight. There was nothing wrong with the end of the half other than the late playcalling by the oc. Cmon you cant be serious. At least i hope not.

Either you have confidence in your Offense or you don't.  The Bills & McD have an obsession that if the Bills don't build a 21 point lead in the first 20 minutes, then play for a 3 point game.  This is his Modus Operandi.

 

 

[PlayoffsPlease]

27 minutes ago, MJS said:

I've watched a lot of football in my life. I can tell you that every coach makes game management mistakes. Every single one.

 

I haven't seen anything to tell me that McDermott is worse at managing a game than other coaches.

 

Coaches make mistakes because there are an infinite amount of variables to consider. Fans usually look at the situations with hindsight.

There are not.  Time left. Time outs left. Field position.  Which team has the ball.  There is an optimal decision about taking/ not taking times outs for each situation.  Good coaches don't use their gut or figure it out on the fly.  They know exactly what they are going to do in a given situation before the game begins. 

[MrEpsYtown]

24 minutes ago, fansince88 said:

I liked the call. I call it agressive. BTW. MONEY missed it 2 times. But dont pay any attention to that. If he had him kick it and he missed you would complain he didnt go for it. We dont have the team to win big yet. That is coming.

I think some blame has to go on the new holder. Looked like he did fine, but maybe switching guys messed with Haushkas mojo. 

[BillsFan130]

51 minutes ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

 

I'd love to see evidence of any team doing this?  I can't recall seeing that happen. In the 2nd half in the last two minutes of the game, yes,, of If they were inside the Miami 10, then yes, makes sense.  But you're taking alot of risk in giving Miami a lot more time to run run plays.  They could lose 10 on an offensive holding penalty, then next play a defensive holding so automatic 1st down.  By taking timeouts, you give the team time to run more plays, more time to potentially score.

 

Give me examples as I can't recall a team calling a time out in the fist half when the other team is driving deep,  key here 1st half and driving deep.

Seriously? Basically every team calls time outs near the end of half when the opposing time is driving inside the 10. The OP is correct. It was a wasted possession and probably cost them 3 points

Edited December 2, 2018 by billsfan11

[Bill_with_it]

8 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Either you have confidence in your Offense or you don't.  The Bills & McD have an obsession that if the Bills don't build a 21 point lead in the first 20 minutes, then play for a 3 point game.  This is his Modus Operandi.

 

 

No its not. Its literally the very first time hes been faced with that scenario today. Hes not a perfect coach but thats not on him today.

[MJS]

6 minutes ago, PlayoffsPlease said:

There are not.  Time left. Time outs left. Field position.  Which team has the ball.  There is an optimal decision about taking/ not taking times outs for each situation.  Good coaches don't use their gut or figure it out on the fly.  They know exactly what they are going to do in a given situation before the game begins. 

 

Sounds wonderful. Doesn't actually happen in games.

[Perry Turtle]

It's pretty standard to try to get in field goal position with a minute left in the half when your starting beyond your own 25 yardline.  The Bills weren't backed up on near go line.  Most teams would try a few chunk plays to get 40 yards or so to get into range.

 

On the  broadcast, Lofton was talking about sitting on the ball because it was too far to go for the TD.  Couldn't figure out why he was ignoring the FG, especially since the Bill's were getting the ball first in the 2nd half.

 

 

[PlayoffsPlease]

1 minute ago, MJS said:

 

Sounds wonderful. Doesn't actually happen in games.

It does, just not in games coached by the bad game managing coaches the Bills have had since Marv Levy. 

[MrEpsYtown]

As big as Josh is and as good as he's been on QB sneaks, I'd like to see them pull a page from the Cheats and rush up to the line for a quick sneak on thirds and fourths and 1. Most off the time the other team gets caught, can't substitute, or calls a time out. 

[PromoTheRobot]

Conservative? Like going for a Hail Mary instead of a long FG?

Edited December 2, 2018 by PromoTheRobot

[Perry Turtle]

4 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

Conservative? Like going for a Hail Mary instead of a long FG?

More like throwing away a couple of plays on runs that went nowhere at the start of the drive.  A couple of medium gains on pass plays could have at least set them up in better FG position at the end of the half.

[fansince88]

13 minutes ago, MrEpsYtown said:

I think some blame has to go on the new holder. Looked like he did fine, but maybe switching guys messed with Haushkas mojo. 

you know, Never thought of that. Good catch!

[MJS]

7 hours ago, PlayoffsPlease said:

It does, just not in games coached by the bad game managing coaches the Bills have had since Marv Levy. 

 

That's not true. I watch games from all around the league. I would say it is rare to see a perfectly managed game. There are usually at least small mistakes on both sides.

[Fixxxer]

McDermott is a conservative coach, but to his defense, he has never had a QB that could convince him to be a little more daring in certain moments of the game.

 

The gameplan going in was similar to the one we saw against the Jags, establish the run, use PA with Allen, if the play was there take it, if not, gain yards with your feet. After the Drake TD and being down 14-9 on the road, the book on McDermott says "close game,  go to the lockeroom, regroup and adjust", moreso knowing we would get the ball back in the second half.

 

But something happend during this game, Allen progressed a little more in his confidence as a passer, and after the Phins TO, where we were forced to make a 1st down, Allen, with two passes put the team in position to add points to the board, this must have been a shocker for the coaching staff and McDermott.

 

The good news is that after the bad clock management to finish halftime, Daboll and McDermott opened up the offense a little more for the second half, we saw Allen in the shotgun throwing some really nice passes, quick hits to McKenzie and to KB on a quick out.

 

Let's hope McDermott takes this experience to grow as a HC.

[Doc Brown]

No problem with him punting it on 4th and 2 hoping the punter could pin them inside the 10 with how well our defense was playing in a field position game.  Although obvious, why not try and draw them Offside and if it doesn't work then you just take the delay of game to give your punter more field to work with?  I thought that sequence was fine and our punter of course botched it.

 

The end of the 2nd quarter was atrocious though.  Even with mismanagement of timeouts (blown challenge), you absolutely give Haushka a chance to make that 58 yarder.  Much better chance of him making that than getting a TD on a Hal Mary.  Only acceptable excuse for that decision is that Haushka says he broke his kicking leg doing his weird stretches.

[billsredneck1]

12 hours ago, PlayoffsPlease said:

There are not.  Time left. Time outs left. Field position.  Which team has the ball.  There is an optimal decision about taking/ not taking times outs for each situation.  Good coaches don't use their gut or figure it out on the fly.  They know exactly what they are going to do in a given situation before the game begins. 

this is what i can't understand at all.  do they not practice going for it on 4th and short?....like getting to the line and running a play? a delay of game penalty should be a misdemeanor!

 

watching that oline play yesterday,  all i can think of is they are being coached by someone horribly incompetent.  it's maddening. at this point in the season these penalties are inexcusable.....even for teller.

 

sometimes i really have to wonder about daboll as well.  all of these situations by this point should have been hammered out.

[Nextmanup]

13 hours ago, HomeskillitMoorman said:

The end of the first half was so badly butchered, and we saw this same exact nonsense go on last year. Why are we not calling timeouts with almost 2 minutes left with the Dolphins having the ball inside our 10? You can not give up possessions like that. That’s losing football. 

 

No matter what they did there, we should’ve had so much more time than the 40 seconds we were left with after we didn’t call anything. And then of course we run the ball on the first 3 plays before finally passing, and then are completely indecisive with 5 secs to go and end up burning the timeout when we could’ve tried to run a quick play to get us a little closer. 

 

And then the 4th and 2 from past midfield that EVERYONE knew we weren’t going to actually snap and just try to “bait” the D into Offside. 

 

I just don’t understand it. Isn’t the point to try to win the game? Not just to stay close? Especially when you have a QB that was making plays. I will never blame a coach for being aggressive to try to win the game if it doesn’t work out. But giving away possessions and being conservative is not winning football. 

This point was brought up in the post-game radio show with Schopp & The Bulldog.

Perhaps that was you calling in?

 

The answer as to why we do this is what Schopp said: it's the way McDermott wants to play football.  He wants to slow the game down to a crawl, shorten it, play tight defense, and win every game 10-7.

 

I am of the opinion that this philosophy absolutely does not work in the NFL in 2018.  We are possibly THE MOST conservative/cautious team left in the league at this point.  Not good, if you're a Bills fan.

 

I couldn't agree with you more; we threw away that possession at the end of the half and that is losing football.  Which makes sense, given that we lost.

 

McDermott's penalty flag challenge was also bad, as almost ALL of his challenges have been since he arrived here.  We clearly do not have a competent system in place to ensure proper challenges and eliminate poor challenges.

 

It's another sign of bad coaching/lack of organization.

 

 

13 hours ago, Bill_with_it said:

This is an ll around bad thread. Too much hindsight. There is literally no way any of you questioning the end of the first half decisions by Sean thought the team would make it to the 40 considering the first half. Too many penalties and struggling to move the ball. Alot of the last call there was on the OC; numerous times theough the game Josh is looking to the sidelines motioning that the call needs to come in quicker. This game isnt on the HC.

The highlighted is totally wrong. 

 

If Bill Belichick was watching the game today sitting next to you, he would have asked why the Bills aren't calling timeouts, as the OP did, in real time.

 

No hindsight there at all.

 

 

[Rochesterfan]

13 hours ago, HomeskillitMoorman said:

The end of the first half was so badly butchered, and we saw this same exact nonsense go on last year. Why are we not calling timeouts with almost 2 minutes left with the Dolphins having the ball inside our 10? You can not give up possessions like that. That’s losing football. 

 

No matter what they did there, we should’ve had so much more time than the 40 seconds we were left with after we didn’t call anything. And then of course we run the ball on the first 3 plays before finally passing, and then are completely indecisive with 5 secs to go and end up burning the timeout when we could’ve tried to run a quick play to get us a little closer. 

 

And then the 4th and 2 from past midfield that EVERYONE knew we weren’t going to actually snap and just try to “bait” the D into Offside. 

 

I just don’t understand it. Isn’t the point to try to win the game? Not just to stay close? Especially when you have a QB that was making plays. I will never blame a coach for being aggressive to try to win the game if it doesn’t work out. But giving away possessions and being conservative is not winning football. 

 

 

Total Hot take and not even correctly written as to what happened - at least get the story correct before you complain.

 

The Bills used their second time-out after stopping the Dolphins on first and goal inside the 10.  Just exactly like the KC Chiefs did in their game.  They were the only 2 games in which a defense called a timeout with the other team driving late in the first half that I saw.  So they used the same strategy as the only other team I saw utilize a timeout on defense.  So oops - wrong #1 in the take.

 

Next paragraph - we did not run 3 straight times before passing.  Let’s look at the facts - after the penalty on the kickoff the Bills are starting on their own 10 yard line.  Most teams then have to decide do we go or do we slow play the drive.  On their own 10 within 1 score and getting the ball to start the second half - the Bills played it like the majority of teams and ran on first down.  The worst thing they could do is go 3 and out without taking any time and punt from deep in their end and give up the last second FG.  They ran again forcing Miami to use timeouts both times and run some time.  3rd down they passed for a first down and got out of bounds.  So 2 runs then a pass. Forcing Miami to use 2 time-outs to help prevent a Dolphins drive and getting the first down.

 

On 1st and ten they then get a false start and go back to essentially their own 20 and 1st and 15.  Now they just want to run the clock out - so a quick handoff to Shady, but he breaks it for 18 and goes out of bounds - now they are in legit scoring position to start to attack.  A beautiful completion to the 41 gives them a legitimate chance with 9 seconds left.

 

Here is where the criticism can come in - they did not seem to know if they wanted 1 short play to get the FG maybe a run or short pass or how they wanted to go forward and they waste their final timeout.  At that point I have to assume 58 yards was pushing his range - especially as we saw at the end of the game the 55 yard miss did not have 3 more yards - so 58 was not really an option.  After wasting the timeout - that left the Hail Mary as the sole option.

 

The real criticism is not being ready after the completion to the 41.  A 5 or 10 yard completion over the middle and a timeout makes the FG a legit threat.  Other than that he played it exactly like most coaches would have given how the game had played out, time-out situation, and field position.

 

Right now I think McDermott struggles because he has a young “gunslinger” QB that makes a ton of plays, but makes a ton of mistakes.  He half plays things to prevent a costly mistake, but try to score.  I see him getting more aggressive as the offense grows.

[CaptnCoke11]

14 hours ago, HomeskillitMoorman said:

The end of the first half was so badly butchered, and we saw this same exact nonsense go on last year. Why are we not calling timeouts with almost 2 minutes left with the Dolphins having the ball inside our 10? You can not give up possessions like that. That’s losing football. 

 

No matter what they did there, we should’ve had so much more time than the 40 seconds we were left with after we didn’t call anything. And then of course we run the ball on the first 3 plays before finally passing, and then are completely indecisive with 5 secs to go and end up burning the timeout when we could’ve tried to run a quick play to get us a little closer. 

 

And then the 4th and 2 from past midfield that EVERYONE knew we weren’t going to actually snap and just try to “bait” the D into Offside. 

 

I just don’t understand it. Isn’t the point to try to win the game? Not just to stay close? Especially when you have a QB that was making plays. I will never blame a coach for being aggressive to try to win the game if it doesn’t work out. But giving away possessions and being conservative is not winning football. 

Too busy wasting the timeouts on obvious challenges he’s going to lose.  

12 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

Conservative? Like going for a Hail Mary instead of a long FG?

That’s just stupidity 

[PaattMaann]

I dont agree with everything the OP said, however, that last drive of the first half was awful. Even if I disagree with the conservative run calls, once we did hit the pass play and got up to the 40, it should have been a NO BRAINER to get up to the line, run another play and call the TO and try the long FG. And then even after he botched it and called the last TO, STILL TRY FOR THE LONG FG OVER THE NEVER WORKS HAIL MARY!!!!!!!

 

Seriously dumb decision making. He has not improved one bit in this respect of being a HC.