Cowboys AND BEARS just showed why I keep saying Defense MATTERS still

[Uncle Joe]

1 hour ago, Alphadawg7 said:

I’m just gonna bump this little thread right back up here for those who watched the Bears defense whoop the vaunted Rams offense all up and down the field.

 

#DefenseStillMatters

 

Ray Lewis agrees with you. I watched the Bears game and I agree with you.
Our defense is good not great. 

[Alphadawg7]

Bump

 

Ravens vs Chargers game just the latest example of why defense still matters and is important late in season and playoffs.  

[mannc]

On 12/10/2018 at 8:20 AM, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Agreed.  You’re not gonna win with a very good defense and terrible offense (see Bills) just like you won’t win with a very good offense and terrible defense (See Brees, Ryan, Rivers, etc. career).  Brees won his only SB when they had a more balanced team.  In fact Saints had a high ranked defense the year he won and then mostly missed the playoffs since when the defense was terrible.  

 

Come playoff time, defense matters a lot.  And this year there aren’t really any Defenses at the level of the Legion of Boom or the Broncos D in 2015, so offenses have taken center stage.  But there are still some very good defenses like the Bears and Cowboys who showed that if you can slow these offenses down they can beat them.  Especially when those high powered teams don’t have very good defenses allowing teams with lesser offenses to keep pace.

 

This brings me back to my original point.  I’m not saying defense is the most important key to winning, I mean I want a high powered offense as much as anyone.  But, I made this post to refute those who repeatedly said Offense is king, Defense doesn’t matter, we can’t win with McD because of defensive background, McBeane should be fired for fixing defense, and all the other non sense.  

 

I love the direction we are headed.  We have that playoff caliber defense and we have a kid at QB who was built to lead a high powered offense.  They went after him for that reason.  The intent is to build this offense up around him, and if they succeed this offseason in giving him the tools to succeed, we will be a team in real contention annually for a long time.  

Of course defense still matters, but it doesn’t matter quite as much as offense.  It’s harder, and takes longer, to build a good offense than a good defense.  We’re seeing some dominant defensive performances right now, in part because a lot of teams are really banged up, especially at QB.  

 

What concerns me about McBeane is that that they don’t seem to be very good at identifying or prioritizing offensive playmakers.  Zay Jones is one example, but we don’t have a single decent RB or TE on the roster right now, either.  How is that possible? The only WRs who can get open are an undrafted FA they cut earlier in the year and a guy they stole from the Broncos’ taxi squad mid season.  Every offensive skill player they’ve drafted has sucked, other than Allen.

 

I am afraid this offense isn’t going to be turned around in one offseason by bean and McDermott.  They have put this team in such an offensive hole, that we legitimately need to bring in as many as seven new starters on offense, several of whom will have to be rookies.  That’s going to be a huge task and it’s going to probably take half a season for that offense to gel, even assuming they pick all the right guys.  One thing I definitely don’t want to see is our first pick, or two of our first three, used on defense, especially on the line or LB.

[row_33]

So now fans get into such a useless frenzy that they deny stats and wins and executing great to mean anything good about Brees this season?

 

yay you....

 

 

Edited December 23, 2018 by row_33

[Rochesterfan]

1 hour ago, mannc said:

Of course defense still matters, but it doesn’t matter quite as much as offense.  It’s harder, and takes longer, to build a good offense than a good defense.  We’re seeing some dominant defensive performances right now, in part because a lot of teams are really banged up, especially at QB.  

 

What concerns me about McBeane is that that they don’t seem to be very good at identifying or prioritizing offensive playmakers.  Zay Jones is one example, but we don’t have a single decent RB or TE on the roster right now, either.  How is that possible? The only WRs who can get open are an undrafted FA they cut earlier in the year and a guy they stole from the Broncos’ taxi squad mid season.  Every offensive skill player they’ve drafted has sucked, other than Allen.

 

I am afraid this offense isn’t going to be turned around in one offseason by bean and McDermott.  They have put this team in such an offensive hole, that we legitimately need to bring in as many as seven new starters on offense, several of whom will have to be rookies.  That’s going to be a huge task and it’s going to probably take half a season for that offense to gel, even assuming they pick all the right guys.  One thing I definitely don’t want to see is our first pick, or two of our first three, used on defense, especially on the line or LB.

 

Of course teams are banged up - this happens every year - later in the season with scores of tape to watch and the ability to game plan and really understand what is being accomplished- the defenses begin to react and we start to see more and more close/low scoring games.  

 

As each game becomes more important and as players are slowed down and the weather further impacts teams - defense becomes more important and offenses struggle.

 

The Playoffs ratchet it up even more and to get to the Super Bowl you typically need at least one game where your defense pulls you through.  

 

What I find interesting is the Super Bowl can go either way depending on how long between games and how familiar the teams are.  If two teams are familiar and there is enough tape - defense is a bit more dominant, but lack of familiarity leads to offensive advantages.  

 

For example the switch from Wentz to Foles last year changed the entire Philly offense and Philosophy giving them a bit of an advantage especially being super aggressive.  Defenses tend to play more basic coverages and attack less against the unknown.  

 

You need both a good offense and a good defense to be successful, but to say as people did early in the year - defense is dead and this staff should be fired for trying to build a defense - that has been proven to be wrong.

 

As to the offense not being turned around - the Bills through their own choices had very limited money to spend and recognized where they were defensively and that the offense would get new life with the QB.  Since you do not know who you are getting in the draft - it is very hard to build an offense around an unknown.  The WRs, OL, TE, RB needed for JA is very different than Josh Rosen or Sam Darnold.  By the time the Bills had drafted Allen - most of the WRs had been signed because free agency comes first.  What we saw is that the team recognized what they needed on offense and what they could get and their offense has been getting better with the limited people they could get during the season.  Give them a chance now that they have money and knowledge of their QB to build around him.  

 

I do not think they will be complete after one off season, but I think they can improve the offense and keep most of the defense - they can be good and then they can keep growing.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

On 12/2/2018 at 8:44 AM, billsfan_34 said:

You think? I dont know if the stats show that. His arm seems to be tiring the last few times ive watched him. Maybe im wrong I dunno.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/B/BreeDr00.htm

 

....having a solid run game and a stout defense has taken the pressure off Brees.......that balance has taken away from "it's either Brees or nothing".....

[billsfan_34]

2 hours ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

....having a solid run game and a stout defense has taken the pressure off Brees.......that balance has taken away from "it's either Brees or nothing".....

Thats a good take!

[sven233]

While defense is important, at the end of the day, points win.

 

The top 2 offenses in the NFL, along with #5 and #8 are playing to go to the Super Bowl and no top 10 defense is to be found in the group.

 

Kansas City Chiefs (#1 in Offense) (#31 in Defense)

Los Angeles Rams (#2 in Offense) (#31 in Defense)

New England Patriots (#5 in Offense) (#19 in Defense)            

New Orleans Saints (#8 in Offense) (#14 in Defense)

 

An elite defense used to be a lot more important than it is in today's new NFL.  Defense can help you win a game on any given day, but in the end, great offenses matter so much more.

 

Scoring points matters more than ever.  I just hope we can put the pieces together to compete in today's game.

Edited January 14, 2019 by sven233

[CowgirlsFan]

There wasn't ANY defense by the Cowboys Saturday night.

[Alphadawg7]

21 minutes ago, CowgirlsFan said:

There wasn't ANY defense by the Cowboys Saturday night.

 

4 hours ago, sven233 said:

While defense is important, at the end of the day, points win.

 

The top 2 offenses in the NFL, along with #5 and #8 are playing to go to the Super Bowl and no top 10 defense is to be found in the group.

 

Kansas City Chiefs (#1 in Offense) (#31 in Defense)

Los Angeles Rams (#2 in Offense) (#31 in Defense)

New England Patriots (#5 in Offense) (#19 in Defense)            

New Orleans Saints (#8 in Offense) (#14 in Defense)

 

An elite defense used to be a lot more important than it is in today's new NFL.  Defense can help you win a game on any given day, but in the end, great offenses matter so much more.

 

Scoring points matters more than ever.  I just hope we can put the pieces together to compete in today's game.

 

Rams D came to play and shut down the Cowboys run game.  Rams won the game running the ball too.  

 

Lets not forget the Colts and Chargers, the two teams that some people claim as proof we are doomed for not hiring their respective HC's, had their quality offenses destroyed by the opponents defenses.  Pats manhandled the Chargers and BB grossly outcoached Lynn and showed why he is a defensive genius.  Then the Chiefs came out and their defense smashed the Colts in the mouth all game.

 

The Saints won, but their offense was slowed down and Eagles had shot to win game and self inflicted a loss when Alshon let a pass go right through his hands when Eagles were driving in scoring range to take the lead at end of game.  

 

So lets not pretend defense had nothing to do with this weekend.  Defense was a major factor in all 4 games and there were no offensive shootouts.  The surprise was that 3 teams whose defenses had struggles in regular season finally started playing in the playoffs in Chiefs, Pats, and Rams.  

Edited January 15, 2019 by Alphadawg7

[TheFunPolice]

Every part of the team matters

 

But if you can't score points a great defense isn't going to help you with rules favoring the offense the way they do.

 

 

[Alphadawg7]

3 minutes ago, TheFunPolice said:

Every part of the team matters

 

But if you can't score points a great defense isn't going to help you with rules favoring the offense the way they do.

 

 

 

Agreed.  Some other people took this thread to mean something it doesn’t.

[BillsVet]

34 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Rams D came to play and shut down the Cowboys run game.  Rams won the game running the ball too.  

 

So lets not pretend defense had nothing to do with this weekend.  Defense was a major factor in all 4 games and there were no offensive shootouts.  The surprise was that 3 teams whose defenses had struggles in regular season finally started playing in the playoffs in Chiefs, Pats, and Rams.  

 

I don't see anyone saying defense doesn't matter, just that it's reduced in importance.  Defense now is more about defending the pass and having more athletic defenders who can remain on the field for 3 downs.  

 

No offensive shootouts? I'd say 3 of the 4 games with a team winning by scoring 30 or more points shows something.  Not completely definitive, but one weekend's worth of games cannot ever be.   

 

As far as running the ball, it's a lot different when guys like Gurley aren't facing heavy fronts and can run from the spread.  

[Alphadawg7]

11 minutes ago, BillsVet said:

 

I don't see anyone saying defense doesn't matter, just that it's reduced in importance.  Defense now is more about defending the pass and having more athletic defenders who can remain on the field for 3 downs.  

 

No offensive shootouts? I'd say 3 of the 4 games with a team winning by scoring 30 or more points shows something.  Not completely definitive, but one weekend's worth of games cannot ever be.   

 

As far as running the ball, it's a lot different when guys like Gurley aren't facing heavy fronts and can run from the spread.  

 

Well this is the thing, many people said many times that literally defense didn’t matter.  It is what prompted this thread in the first place.  People forget how crazy this board was before Allen came back.  

 

I, nor anyone agreeing with me, have ever said that defense is the most important thing.  This thread was pointing out that defense still matters and playoff football it’s important still.  

[MAJBobby]

And three of the top 5 offenses going to Championship Sunday. And the other still in top 10

 

Yeah ummm BUILD A LEGIT OFFENSE

Edited January 15, 2019 by MAJBobby

[Bing Bong]

1 hour ago, MAJBobby said:

And three of the top 5 offenses going to Championship Sunday. And the other still in top 10

 

Yeah ummm BUILD A LEGIT OFFENSE

We got to get good at both obviously. And yes we need a killer offense if we want to win a SB. But where we are now.. having ostensibly a solid defense, is just as good a starting point as any (well not so much given our offense is godawful and has so much work to do.)

 

But defense is important. Obviously haha. Criticism that McDermott is a defensive coach and our defense is... Too good or something?? (I don't really get it) is so silly.

 

Our defense isn't elite by any means. It's pretty good, as are all the playoff defenses as well. What we have at defense required is pretty much the bare minimum to be really good in this league. But ignoring the offense that lead to the dog**** offense we saw to this point this season is scary. We're so far behind the prerequisite offense. But we're not so great at defense either as we think we are.. just good enough. So however we want our team to look, the defense is fine, not some stupid way to build. We just have to not be some ugly lopsided freak of a no offense / passable defense team lol

[Doc Brown]

Last year's final four was a little more balanced with the Pats being the exception.  There's no magic formula.  If you have an elite offense or defense you need at least an average unit on the other side in the playoffs.  The key being in the playoffs.  The Chiefs defense played well last weekend despite their low regular season ranking.

 

Eagles - 7th on offense, , 4th on defense

Patriots - 1st on offense, 29th on defense

Jaguars - 6th on offense, 2nd on defense

Vikings - 11th on offense, 1st on defense

6 hours ago, sven233 said:

Kansas City Chiefs (#1 in Offense) (#31 in Defense)

Los Angeles Rams (#2 in Offense) (#31 in Defense)

New England Patriots (#5 in Offense) (#19 in Defense)            

New Orleans Saints (#8 in Offense) (#14 in Defense)

BTW...Rams were 19th and the Patriots were 21st in defense.

Edited January 15, 2019 by Doc Brown

[Bing Bong]

6 minutes ago, Doc Brown said:

Last year's final four was a little more balanced with the Pats being the exception.  There's no magic formula.  If you have an elite offense or defense you need at least an average unit on the other side in the playoffs.  The key being in the playoffs.  The Chiefs defense played well last weekend despite their low regular season ranking.

 

Eagles - 7th on offense, , 4th on defense

Patriots - 1st on offense, 29th on defense

Jaguars - 6th on offense, 2nd on defense

Vikings - 11th on offense, 1st on defense

BTW...Rams were 19th and the Patriots were 21st in defense.

Yeah ya gotta be good at both it's a 2 way sport. I don't know what we're getting at here as it relates to our building as we clearly got to get better at both ourselves (and just so happen to be much further away from offense)

 

We were horrible this year. We're talking like we had some juggernaut defense and went 6-10 because we philosophically built our team backwards. If we have a season like the Jags did last year we can opine on the merits of this defense only philosophy we're so worried about lol. Until then we're 6-10 because we're so far behind on talent both sides of the ball. Just happens to be offense moreso than defense.

[iinii]

Defense matters but offense matters more. Stats and rankings are window dressing. Games are still won by the team with the most points so unless your defense is piling up touchdowns better get a great offense.