WHY is Allen really starting?

[Alphadawg7]

13 hours ago, PUNT750 said:

I feel the Bills are doing the right thing in starting Allen for the balance of the season. It really isn't an NFL learning experience for him - rather a gut check for the Bills HC and GM.

IF he doesn't show an awareness for the game, a quick release or can't MANAGE the game he's not our man. We've been through this before with Johnson, Losman and EJ. Great talent but not winners in the NFL.

I hope he's "the man" and he's getting his chance!

 

Whats the point of this thread?  To state the obvious?

[iinii]

43 minutes ago, blacklabel said:

The kid has to start regardless of the situation. There's no replacement for live game reps. He just recently said that he felt like the game was slowing down for him when they were playing Houston, just before his injury. 

You left out the part where Allen said that holding the clipboard and charting plays has been helpful.

[PittsforDave]

The leap in improvement will occur in year 2. Way too early to judge...

[SoTier]

3 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I agree that so long as he is on an obvious upward curve after year 2 he gets to start year 3. But that benefit of the doubt doesn't last much beyond that. By mid-year 3 he needs to be playing at a high level or else I am drafting another.

 

Exactly this.  If a team keeps waiting and hoping that a high first round QB prospect who isn't playing consistently at a high level by his third season will eventually "get it" and play better, they'll end up with a Sanchez,Tannehill, Bortles or Winston.  The biggest cost of this isn't just the cap implications of giving these mediocre QBs big extensions, but that the team may very well pass on a much better QB.

 

1 hour ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

That's a cliche. You have to learn what to do before you get reps and do it. I thought Allen was regressing his last few games. He started running soon after he snapped the ball. You aren't learning the QB job doing that.

 

I agree.  Just getting thrown out there and left to "figure it out" on his own is a prescription for insuring a young QB prospect fails, especially a "project", and I'm afraid that's close to the situation with Allen.  If he wasn't regressing in his last few games, he certainly wasn't showing much, and he was playing poorly.

 

David Culley has never been a NFL QB and he hasn't been a QB coach even on the collegiate level in the last 30 years until he was hired by McDermott.  How can anyone believe Culley can help a QB who needs serious help with his fundamentals, especially his mechanics?   Allen needs a real mentor in a QB coach, not a fellow player to give him some pointers. 

[Big Turk]

1 hour ago, iinii said:

Much like simulators for fighter pilots? Just throw them in a plane and see what happens?

A simulator IS the same thing as flying a plane just without the possibility of death when you crash. 

 

Is Allen on the sidelines dropping back every play and wearing some virtual reality gear to make the throws against the AI?

 

Kind of a dumb example becauee you just proved my point.

 

For an equivalent point to him being on the bench, it would be like having no simulation training and just sitting and watching a pilot for a few months and then taking over the controls and flying the plane without the pilot there with you.

1 hour ago, Miracle Bills said:

Barkley starting does plenty. It lets you know if you need to lock him up with a deal or let him go at the end of the year.

 

Maybe we should figure out if we have a starting QB instead of trying to figure out if we have a back up...just a thought...just a thought.

Edited November 15, 2018 by matter2003

[ddaryl]

 I want to see him scan the field. Make the right reads and fire the ball into tight windows accurately. Something he has show very little ability to do with any consistency.

 

 

[PromoTheRobot]

4 hours ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

When will you know definitively that he's ready?

 

What indicator light illuminates that tells you its time?

 

That's the coaches call, not ours. All I'm saying is McDermott's statement about Allen starting "when healthy" does not necessarily mean "Allen starts vs Jax."

Edited November 15, 2018 by PromoTheRobot

[Augie]

4 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Whats the point of this thread?  To state the obvious?

 

You ask difficult questions! 

 

I’m afraid I don’t have an answer. 

[Straight Hucklebuck]

22 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

That's the coaches call, not ours. All I'm saying is McDermott's statement about Allen starting "when healthy" does not necessarily mean "Allen starts vs Jax."

Ok, well McDermott said he’s our starter, which means in his mind Allen is ready right now. 

 

 

[iinii]

3 hours ago, matter2003 said:

A simulator IS the same thing as flying a plane just without the possibility of death when you crash. 

 

Is Allen on the sidelines dropping back every play and wearing some virtual reality gear to make the throws against the AI?

 

Kind of a dumb example becauee you just proved my point.

 

For an equivalent point to him being on the bench, it would be like having no simulation training and just sitting and watching a pilot for a few months and then taking over the controls and flying the plane without the pilot there with you.

 

Maybe we should figure out if we have a starting QB instead of trying to figure out if we have a back up...just a thought...just a thought.

Or the possibility of damaging your elbow?

[Straight Hucklebuck]

3 minutes ago, iinii said:

Or the possibility of damaging your elbow?

That’s what team doctors are supposed to do. Assess the realistic chance he reinjures the elbow. If they clear him, he’s in. 

[dubs]

19 hours ago, PUNT750 said:

I feel the Bills are doing the right thing in starting Allen for the balance of the season. It really isn't an NFL learning experience for him - rather a gut check for the Bills HC and GM.

IF he doesn't show an awareness for the game, a quick release or can't MANAGE the game he's not our man. We've been through this before with Johnson, Losman and EJ. Great talent but not winners in the NFL.

I hope he's "the man" and he's getting his chance!

 

NOT trying to be a jerk but I read this 4 times and I don’t really get what you are saying. The first paragraph really is throwing me off. 

[PromoTheRobot]

1 hour ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

Ok, well McDermott said he’s our starter, which means in his mind Allen is ready right now. 

 

 

 

That's not what he said.  He said "when healthy Allen is the starter." That doesn't mean "He's healthy. He's starting the next game."

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

7 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

That's a cliche. You have to learn what to do before you get reps and do it. I thought Allen was regressing his last few games. He started running soon after he snapped the ball. You aren't learning the QB job doing that.

 

...kid has a damn good work ethic and certainly seems to be a good teammate.....the whole QB situation was grossly mishandled, thrusting him into the starting role despite needing more work......and I'd bet he pressed to carry the team on his shoulders when he was not ready.....hence the purported regression along with the less than stellar supporting cast....

[PromoTheRobot]

2 hours ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

...kid has a damn good work ethic and certainly seems to be a good teammate.....the whole QB situation was grossly mishandled, thrusting him into the starting role despite needing more work......and I'd bet he pressed to carry the team on his shoulders when he was not ready.....hence the purported regression along with the less than stellar supporting cast....

 

I don't disagree. That's why I don't support just putting him back out there. For whatever reason, the same motley offense played better against the Jets under Barkley. Part of Allen's education should be watching a veteran make it work with the same guys who couldn't get it done under him earlier. He would benefit from it greatly. Even for a week or two.

[3rdand12]

10 hours ago, msw2112 said:

I worked on a project a few years ago with a sociologist who specialized in learning.  His theory was that everyone learns differently.  Some people learn by reading about how something is done.  Others learn by watching someone else do it.  Still others learn by actually doing it.  Successful leaders and managers have the ability to understand the people they have working for them and how they learn best, and then apply the best approach.  I have no idea how Josh Allen learns best, but I hope that McDermott is that kind of successful leader who can identify what works best for Allen and applies it.

where do you folks come from all of a sudden ?

 But you are correct. There are more than two types of learning of course. But kinetic is certainly one of them !

9 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

I don't disagree. That's why I don't support just putting him back out there. For whatever reason, the same motley offense played better against the Jets under Barkley. Part of Allen's education should be watching a veteran make it work with the same guys who couldn't get it done under him earlier. He would benefit from it greatly. Even for a week or two.

No reason not to put Barkley out there.

he might get concussed like Anderson was his first game in ??
 or accidently wet himself ala Nate.
He just won us a game huge , showed poise, plus awareness +he ran the Offense as intended by Daboll. That was how it IS done.
 with the O line and WRs still a ? mark ?

i would prefer to sacrifice Barkley over Allen.

but who knows, maybe just maybe .. last week against a team that had given up (Jets) is a trend.
process trumps all though

[PittsforDave]

We are creating a controversy here.

 

It’s not good to put Josh in a position like this, up against the wall. 

 

Its succeed or get benched for Barkley. ***** just got real real, way too quickly. 

 

Theyre about to kill all/ any momentum. 

 

 

Edited November 16, 2018 by PittsforDave

[26CornerBlitz]

1 minute ago, PittsforDave said:

We are creating a controversy here.

 

It’s not good to put Josh in a position like this, up against the wall. 

 

Its succeed or get benched for Barkley. ***** just got real real, way too quickly. 

 

That's not it at all and there is no controversy whatsoever. You are definitely misreading the situation as the primary concern is Allen gaining invaluable playing experience to acclerate his learning curve. 

[PittsforDave]

6 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

That's not it at all and there is no controversy whatsoever. You are definitely misreading the situation as the primary concern is Allen gaining invaluable playing experience to acclerate his learning curve. 

Predictably, Josh will come out flat for the Jax game and everyone will be calling for Barkley to start, this will create added pressure on Josh and he will continue to flounder. 

 

No controversy yet, Josh has to play well, very well, or there will be one, from the fans down to the media. 

 

It’s possible. It’s Billsy...

 

 

Edited November 16, 2018 by PittsforDave

[26CornerBlitz]

Just now, PittsforDave said:

Predictably, Josh will come out flat for the Jax game and everyone will be calling for Barkley to start, this will create added pressure on Josh and he will continue to flounder. 

 

No controversy yet, Josh has to play well, very well, or there will be one, from

the fans down to the media. 

 

It’s possible. It’s Billsy...

 

The fans will not impact any decisions.  The team is committed to Allen's development and no journeyman factors into the equation.  Everyone should get this as it's obvious.