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Josh Allen starts week 12 but shows no growth....


Rebel101

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3 hours ago, Ayjent said:

Between Allen, Peterman and Anderson - yeah Allen was head and shoulders above the other two.  But you can't deny that Barkley had the best QB performance by a Bill this season and it's not even close.  I'm fine with them starting either Barkley or Allen.  I think Allen's pocket presence is still problematic.  He holds the ball too long and hasn't shown any consistency in moving in the pocket to make time for himself.  I don't know if that is something that will improve with presnap recognition, I'm hopeful that it does.  Everything else seems to be there, but that ability to make good quick decisions is what separates the superstars from the busters.

 

I disagree.  Allen's overall performance against Minnesota was better IMO.  While the passing stats between the two were similar Allen contributed a lot more as a runner.  On top of that the Vikings were a much better team then the Jets.  I just don't get how folks declare the Barkley effort Sunday, which was good, to be better then Allen's against Minny. 

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5 hours ago, Rebel101 said:

I believe you go with the hot hand and start Barkley. I think he earned himself one more start. I understand Allen is the future but they originally wanted him to sit anyway. But what if he does start and looks the same or worse then he did before injury? He was making some better throws in the Texans game. He didn’t play great but he looked alittle better so what if after sitting and learning from Anderson and all that he doesn’t look any different then what he did before the injury? Do we start to worry? I mean the main reason Josh Allen was even considered such a high pick was because of Carson Wentz and their numbers are no where near the same

 

What does "shows no growth" mean in the context of one game for a rookie QB?

 

 

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Oh, my. Let's at least wait until the season is over before we start talking about "growth", OK?

 

If McD was on the level about going back to Josh Allen (assuming that he is healthy), the coach is in effect saying that the team is willing to ride out the season with the rookie come what may. Six games to finish the season combined with what Allen already exhibited earlier in the season at least provides a body of work to evaluate. But, guess what? That still is not a very large sample size. So, please be patient. It could take another year or so before we really know what we have in Josh Allen.

 

Progression is not always linear, either. So Allen could look great, for example, against the Jags -- and then turn around and play poorly in his next game. That does not necessarily mean that he is regressing -- it just emphasizes again how inconsistent young players (especially QBs) can be.

 

I am so glad that the folks around here that are prone to overreaction are not responsible for running this team.

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2 hours ago, Gugny said:

 

He hasn't played for 50% of the season.  Keep cherry picking stats to fit your narrative.  And if you think Josh Allen is the sole - even the primary - reason that the Bills offense is so anemic, then you've not been watching the games.

 

I've been watching the games.

 

Our offense is awful because we have the worst group of QBs in the league.

 

Look at all the other bad offenses around the league and what do they have in common? 

 

Terrible QB play. 

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A couple of opinions on common themes in these Barkley/Allen threads:

 

*  Barkley has earned another start.  WTH is this?  So now the criteria for earning a starting job by a back-up QB is to play a solid game.  Isn't this why they brought Barkley in.   

 

*  Go with Barkley, who has the "hot hand".  Who cares if Barkley has the hot hand or not.  Does Fitz having had a hot hand alter the fact that Tampa Bay will be desperately looking for a QB in the off season? 

 

*  The ultimate upside with Barkley as the Bills QB is 8 - 8.  Look familiar?  So folks want to put off developing a franchise QB (or finding out that he isn't the guy) because we might win a couple more games with Barkley?  For the last 20 years the Bills have occupied football's equivalent of PURGATORY (though I would call it hell) where they hang around 500 and everyone points to next year as the year - over & over & over & over & over & over &.......Again.  Count me out. 

 

*  What if Allen looks bad?  Then we learn something.  And if Allen stinks up the show against Jacksonville he still starts the next week and the week after that.  That we're even having this debate in Billsland is amazing to me.  Allen may or may not be the guy to lead us out of the football wilderness we've occupied the last 20 years but he offers us at least a chance to break our cycle of extreme mediocrity.  Barkley as a starter is a GUARANTEE that we continue to try to push the boulder up the hill. 

Edited by CincyBillsFan
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1 hour ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

My comprehensive list includes:

Blaine Gabbert

Sam Bradford

Derek Anderson

Josh McCown

Nathan Peterman

 

These are all backups. 

 

Let's stick to the first choice starters around the league right now, ignoring the backups who are playing due to injuries.

 

There's no one worse than Josh Allen at this point in the season. 

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5 hours ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

Good thing the coaches are focused on the future of the team at 3-7 instead of worrying about whether a journeyman QB who has bounced around the league deserves another start.

 

They are worried about winning the next game because... that's their job!

 

What happens when your focus isn't on winning? You get fired. This league has no tolerance for losing. Every single game they win adds to their tenure here.

 

To a fan there might not be a big difference between 4-12 and 8-8, but to coaches that is a huge difference, one that might get them fired.

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Just now, MJS said:

 

They are worried about winning the next game because... that's their job!

 

What happens when your focus isn't on winning? You get fired. This league has no tolerance for losing. Every single game they win adds to their tenure here.

 

To a fan there might not be a big difference between 4-12 and 8-8, but to coaches that is a huge difference, one that might get them fired.

Hyperbole. This  coaching staff is not going anywhere.

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2 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said:

Hyperbole. This  coaching staff is not going anywhere.

 

Unless you're Terry or Kim Pegula, this is speculation. 

 

If the Bills finish 3-13 with the worst offense in the NFL, anyone's head could be on the chopping block. 

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9 minutes ago, MJS said:

 

They are worried about winning the next game because... that's their job!

 

What happens when your focus isn't on winning? You get fired. This league has no tolerance for losing. Every single game they win adds to their tenure here.

 

To a fan there might not be a big difference between 4-12 and 8-8, but to coaches that is a huge difference, one that might get them fired.

 

The emerging youth movement says no to every word of this.  Allen is starting regardless as they focus on player development straight from McDermott's mouth. You want to take issue with this, I suggest you contact him.

Edited by 26CornerBlitz
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1 minute ago, billsfan1959 said:

Hyperbole. This coaching staff is not going anywhere.

 

Not this season, but previous seasons are taken into consideration when firing a coach.

 

If McDermott goes 8-8, keeping him above .500 during his Bills tenure as head coach, that will keep him around longer.

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2 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

 

Unless you're Terry or Kim Pegula, this is speculation. 

 

If the Bills finish 3-13 with the worst offense in the NFL, anyone's head could be on the chopping block. 

I know you are hoping; however, it isn't going to happen. On the bright side, your next 1000 posts can be jut like your last 1000 posts: Some variation of Beane sucks, McDermott sucks, Allen Sucks, or this this team sucks.

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3 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said:

 

I know you are hoping; however, it isn't going to happen. On the bright side, your next 1000 posts can be jut like your last 1000 posts: Some variation of Beane sucks, McDermott sucks, Allen Sucks, or this this team sucks.

 

What I'm hoping for is for the Bills to become a good NFL team.

 

Having a decent QB instead of league worst QB play would help that cause considerably.

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6 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said:

 

I know you are hoping; however, it isn't going to happen. On the bright side, your next 1000 posts can be jut like your last 1000 posts: Some variation of Beane sucks, McDermott sucks, Allen Sucks, or this this team sucks.

 

 

I could see their seat becoming very warm if they continue this trend to the end of the season. Pegs doesn’t like to be embarrassed. Just look at the knee-jerk firings from the Sabres. 

 

Instead of responding so ornery, why not at least attempt to see the other side and contribute. 

 

Having a bad day or something?

 

We all want the Bills to be successful and Win. 

1 minute ago, ndirish1978 said:

Starting Barkley is the type of short-sighted thinking that has kept us down in the dregs of the league for years. Embrace the suck and get better, that is the only way we will ever wind up with a franchise QB. 

That makes a lot of sense. 

 

“Embrass the suck”. Lol

Edited by PittsforDave
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3 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

The emerging youth movement says no to every word of this.  Allen is starting regardless as they focus on player development straight from the Head Coaches mouth. You want to take issue with, I suggest you contact him.

 

McDermott has ALWAYS talked about the importance of winning now AND in the future. He is not going to throw away games in the name of player development. Obviously he is going to try to develop his players, but if he has one QB that gives him a clear advantage to win, he'll play him. That's nothing like our current situation, with most of our QB's interchangeable.

 

I think starting Allen would be a fine decision, by the way, if he's healthy. But if the coaches decide that starting Barkley is the way to go and allowing Allen to sit and learn is good for his development (like Mahomes), I don't take issue with that.

 

The consensus among most "experts" is that the ideal situation for a rookie QB is to sit and learn behind a veteran QB. Correct? Most agreed that Allen would need time to sit and learn because he was particularly raw.

 

If McDermott starts Allen, that is an indication that he believes that Barkley, a journeyman QB who has never had much success in this league, does not give a huge advantage to the offense, in which case it is better to at least give the young guy more live reps and experience.

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2 minutes ago, MJS said:

 

McDermott has ALWAYS talked about the importance of winning now AND in the future. He is not going to throw away games in the name of player development. Obviously he is going to try to develop his players, but if he has one QB that gives him a clear advantage to win, he'll play him. That's nothing like our current situation, with most of our QB's interchangeable.

 

I think starting Allen would be a fine decision, by the way, if he's healthy. But if the coaches decide that starting Barkley is the way to go and allowing Allen to sit and learn is good for his development (like Mahomes), I don't take issue with that.

 

The consensus among most "experts" is that the ideal situation for a rookie QB is to sit and learn behind a veteran QB. Correct? Most agreed that Allen would need time to sit and learn because he was particularly raw.

 

If McDermott starts Allen, that is an indication that he believes that Barkley, a journeyman QB who has never had much success in this league, does not give a huge advantage to the offense, in which case it is better to at least give the young guy more live reps and experience.

 

He didn't say anything about winning on Monday at his presser.  He mentioned just what I said the focus is with the team sitting at 3-7. 

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1 minute ago, PittsforDave said:

I could see their seat becoming very warm if they continue this trend to the end of the season. Pegs doesn’t like to be embarrassed. Just look at the knee-jerk firings from the Sabres. 

 

Instead of responding so ornery, why not at least attempt to see the other side and contribute. 

 

Having a bad day or something?

 

We all want the Bills to be successful and Win. 

Not being ornery and not having a bad day. Simply pointing out that this coaching staff and FO are here at least through the end of next year. There is nothing on the side of "fire Beane and fire McDermott" that makes sense to me, so, there's that.

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