TroutDog Posted November 11, 2018 Share Posted November 11, 2018 18 hours ago, Rebel101 said: What does this matter so did Jamarcus Russel. How’d his arm help him In my opinion, there is no comparison: Russell was a dolt whereas Allen is intelligent and a student of the game. It seems as though many here believe in knee jerk reactions instead of understanding that the QB position at this level takes some time to master...and a supporting cast. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted November 11, 2018 Share Posted November 11, 2018 Nope. Mike Vick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted November 11, 2018 Share Posted November 11, 2018 1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said: Nope. Mike Vick. Allen has a significantly stronger arm than Vick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ridgewaycynic2013 Posted November 11, 2018 Share Posted November 11, 2018 36 minutes ago, dave mcbride said: Allen has a significantly stronger arm than Vick. Even without having to break up dog fights?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bing Bong Posted November 11, 2018 Share Posted November 11, 2018 JaMarcus Russell y'all ain't even close. 22 hours ago, billspro said: There’s nothing to discuss this is a fact. No JaMarcus Russell had a much stronger arm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted November 11, 2018 Share Posted November 11, 2018 5 hours ago, dave mcbride said: Allen has a significantly stronger arm than Vick. He does? I didn’t see that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerome007 Posted November 11, 2018 Share Posted November 11, 2018 16 hours ago, ColoradoBills said: Josh Allen's elbow injury will cause a change in his delivery resulting in him becoming the most accurate QB in history. It's fate. THat would be awesome LOL But yeah, I'm shocked the Bills have not really used his strong arm in the last 3 games he played. I'm still glad they chose a deep pass as his first ever preseason play. Of course it matters little if he hasn't accuracy, good defense reading skills and blablabla. But to say it doesn't matter? Don't be a party pooper. I'm sure we will see a few jaw dropping plays from him. And all Hail Marys he throws will have everyone on edge. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bing Bong Posted November 11, 2018 Share Posted November 11, 2018 9 minutes ago, Jerome007 said: THat would be awesome LOL But yeah, I'm shocked the Bills have not really used his strong arm in the last 3 games he played. I'm still glad they chose a deep pass as his first ever preseason play. Of course it matters little if he hasn't accuracy, good defense reading skills and blablabla. But to say it doesn't matter? Don't be a party pooper. I'm sure we will see a few jaw dropping plays from him. And all Hail Marys he throws will have everyone on edge. He should be watching Brett Favre tape. Made throws no OC drew up lol cause he just played with confident instincts and that God given talented arm. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted November 11, 2018 Share Posted November 11, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, Mr. WEO said: He does? I didn’t see that. He literally has broken every record. He was throwing 92 in high school as a pitcher, and he wasn’t a travel player robot who had been trained for speed since the age of 8. It was natural. Edited November 11, 2018 by dave mcbride Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted November 12, 2018 Share Posted November 12, 2018 49 minutes ago, dave mcbride said: He literally has broken every record. He was throwing 92 in high school as a pitcher, and he wasn’t a travel player robot who had been trained for speed since the age of 8. It was natural. What were Vick’s comparable numbers? What are we comparing? Ive never seen anyone simply flick his wrist, on the run, and toss a laser bomb like Vick. Haven’t seen that from Allen, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WideNine Posted November 12, 2018 Share Posted November 12, 2018 On 11/10/2018 at 2:41 PM, mrags said: I used to belive that too. Except evidence points to the facts that when he has tried to throw it deep so far this year, his passes have been underthtown. Hopefully its just a mistake in accuracy. Hopefully he needs to learn to plant his feet. Hopefully whatever it is, can be coached. But I have no faith in this coaching staff helping him through that. And I have serious doubts that it’s not just him not being able to throw the ball a country mile like we all previously believed. Hopefully im wrong. I really like Allen and want him to succeed. He was my number 1 choice coming out because of his physical attributes. So far I’ve been wrong. Balls tend to be under-thrown when a QB is back peddling and throwing off his back feet. Not saying there are not accuracy issues, as there have been, but the kid has a cannon and I would like to see what his deep passes look like when he can actually step into some of those throws. I have also seen plenty of Allen's deep passes go right through or off the hands of our elite receiving core. The kid has a high ceiling - maybe he reaches it, maybe he doesn't, but he needs the right support and it is waaaaay too early to tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrags Posted November 12, 2018 Share Posted November 12, 2018 31 minutes ago, WideNine said: Balls tend to be under-thrown when a QB is back peddling and throwing off his back feet. Not saying there are not accuracy issues, as there have been, but the kid has a cannon and I would like to see what his deep passes look like when he can actually step into some of those throws. I have also seen plenty of Allen's deep passes go right through or off the hands of our elite receiving core. The kid has a high ceiling - maybe he reaches it, maybe he doesn't, but he needs the right support and it is waaaaay too early to tell. I won’t disagree with your assessment. I also believe his ceiling is high. But his deep balls so far have been underthrown and underwhelming. Hopefully you are right and the footwork needs help. Hopefully it’s the lack of protection. I won’t disputes that either has been good. The only fact that does remain however, is that he has thrown some deep passes and almost all of them have been underthrown. To the point that the WRs have to stop and come back to make plays on the ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WideNine Posted November 12, 2018 Share Posted November 12, 2018 32 minutes ago, mrags said: I won’t disagree with your assessment. I also believe his ceiling is high. But his deep balls so far have been underthrown and underwhelming. Hopefully you are right and the footwork needs help. Hopefully it’s the lack of protection. I won’t disputes that either has been good. The only fact that does remain however, is that he has thrown some deep passes and almost all of them have been underthrown. To the point that the WRs have to stop and come back to make plays on the ball. Josh has also shown a lot of hesitation in his throws and that factors into those passes not connecting either. I am hoping that he gets the comfort level to pull the trigger right when he needs to vs that bit of uncertainty that I think throws off the timing and results in the receiver running the route deeper than the throw. Only time will tell, but the front office has to make the o-line a priority - could use 2-3 upgrades. I am still not quite sold on either of our center(s), but I thought that Wood struggled his first few years so maybe just a normal learning curve. I am not big on either starters on the right side in pass pro, or opening running lanes. I have seen too many promising rookie QBs damaged beyond repair behind poor lines so hope this is a priority next year. Wouldn't mind them picking up a good TE too, Clay is hurt as often as he plays and a young QB needs a good TE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrags Posted November 12, 2018 Share Posted November 12, 2018 6 minutes ago, WideNine said: Josh has also shown a lot of hesitation in his throws and that factors into those passes not connecting either. I am hoping that he gets the comfort level to pull the trigger right when he needs to vs that bit of uncertainty that I think throws off the timing and results in the receiver running the route deeper than the throw. Only time will tell, but the front office has to make the o-line a priority - could use 2-3 upgrades. I am still not quite sold on either of our center(s), but I thought that Wood struggled his first few years so maybe just a normal learning curve. I am not big on either starters on the right side in pass pro, or opening running lanes. I have seen too many promising rookie QBs damaged beyond repair behind poor lines so hope this is a priority next year. Wouldn't mind them picking up a good TE too, Clay is hurt as often as he plays and a young QB needs a good TE. Thank you. Youve added another wrinkle in the Allen argument I forgot about. It’s not just his bad accuracy, and his underthrown balls. It’s his hesitation when a wr is streaking down the sideline and he doesn’t pull the trigger or pulls it too late. By then he can’t step up into his throw, and....it’s thrown short. I think well see Teller secure the LG spot before the end of the year. No idea why they waited so long to start him honestly. But he’s looked pretty good so far. So going into the offseason we’ll need at least 2 more quality starters in the OL. Maybe pick up a G in fA, and then the best OT in the draft in round 1. I dont think the C ply has been good at all but with 2 solid Gs next to the spot I think either one of our guys now would be fine. Similar to Wood imo. He wasn’t that good honestly. Always looked much better with better play alongside him. Back when Levitre was here, and when incognito stepped it up. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bing Bong Posted November 12, 2018 Share Posted November 12, 2018 This isn't about throwing bombs. Hopefully Allen has the armstrength to simply fit tight throws other Quarterbacks wouldn't dare to on a 20 play.. study Brett Favre haha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted November 12, 2018 Share Posted November 12, 2018 (edited) 4 hours ago, Mr. WEO said: What were Vick’s comparable numbers? What are we comparing? Ive never seen anyone simply flick his wrist, on the run, and toss a laser bomb like Vick. Haven’t seen that from Allen, The eyeball test?? Really? Vick ran a sub-4.4 40 time (allegedly 4.33) but come on. He doesn’t compare to Allen, who hit freaking 66 at the senior bowl. Favre supposedly hit 63 and people didn’t think it was toppable. Vick threw 60 max on his best day (which is good!). His speed and cutting ability separated him from the pack, especially when combined wih a genuinely strong arm. Edited November 12, 2018 by dave mcbride Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsMafia13 Posted November 12, 2018 Share Posted November 12, 2018 On 11/10/2018 at 3:29 PM, NoSaint said: Im not feeling particularly optimistic about McD or his development of a project qb... but I do generally believe allen can throw the ball a mile without accounting for accuracy. That’s the only reason I brought up the question. His arm strength is unquestioned, but from the few games i've seen of him this year his drive is what gets me excited. Super raw but the kid has the heart to get better and more so than any other rookie not names Baker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted November 12, 2018 Share Posted November 12, 2018 13 hours ago, dave mcbride said: The eyeball test?? Really? Vick ran a sub-4.4 40 time (allegedly 4.33) but come on. He doesn’t compare to Allen, who hit freaking 66 at the senior bowl. Favre supposedly hit 63 and people didn’t think it was toppable. Vick threw 60 max on his best day (which is good!). His speed and cutting ability separated him from the pack, especially when combined wih a genuinely strong arm. Yes, as I mentioned specifically in my post. 66 standing and throwing at a radar gun is nice (he couldn't get past 62 at the combine, so, not meaningfully different from and very comparable to Vick's 60), but you have to be able to do it on the run, off balance, cross the body to really test the strength of a thrower. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted November 12, 2018 Share Posted November 12, 2018 1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said: Yes, as I mentioned specifically in my post. 66 standing and throwing at a radar gun is nice (he couldn't get past 62 at the combine, so, not meaningfully different from and very comparable to Vick's 60), but you have to be able to do it on the run, off balance, cross the body to really test the strength of a thrower. Have you not watched Allen highlights? He clearly has a cannon on the field too. That td throw in preseason against Carolina was blazing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted November 12, 2018 Share Posted November 12, 2018 Just now, dave mcbride said: Have you not watched Allen highlights? He clearly has a cannon on the field too. That td throw in preseason against Carolina was blazing. The highlights are too few to compare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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