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kbarrettb

Good Head Coaches

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So I have wanted to bring this up but didn't have time. The NFL is an offensive lead I think we can all agree to this or at least agree mostly about this. I was talking to a friend and we were talking about good head coaches and then we were talking about what side of the offensive defensive or special teams they coached before becoming head coaches. It got me thinking I don't hate McDermott I just think there are so few defensive good coaches in the league and in the league historically. We could only come up with Pete Carrol and Bill Belichick who were great head coaches who were defensive minded.

 

Total there are 21 Offensive head coaches 10 defensive head coaches and 1 special team head coach. Out of those coaches there are much more good coaches on the offensive side of the ball then there are defensive good head coaches.  I just think with the way the NFL is today you need a good offensive coach as the head coach. You can always find defensive coaches. But if you have a superior Offensive Coordinator the second he has a good year or even just people interested in him he is gone and he is basically taking your offensive system with him which messes with the QB if you have a good offensive head coach he runs his system he is there for the duration. 

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Rivera is a pretty good coach, also Marvin Lewis despite the playoff failures. Tomlin. Harbaugh. Just off the top of my head, quite a few super bowl appearances there 

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My ideology is simple, I expect my HC to field an elite unit on his side of the ball. So far I think McD can build a top 5 defense, if he can even just field a completely average offense we're golden. We have a ton of cap but I think the problem McD is going to have is his allowance. I think Terry is a fool if he let's McD spend 90 million. I would laugh hysterically if he did though and wonder how he became a billionaire. I'd like to see lots of 2-3 year deals we can get out of after 1 year.

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13 minutes ago, kbarrettb said:

So I have wanted to bring this up but didn't have time. The NFL is an offensive lead I think we can all agree to this or at least agree mostly about this. I was talking to a friend and we were talking about good head coaches and then we were talking about what side of the offensive defensive or special teams they coached before becoming head coaches. It got me thinking I don't hate McDermott I just think there are so few defensive good coaches in the league and in the league historically. We could only come up with Pete Carrol and Bill Belichick who were great head coaches who were defensive minded.

 

Total there are 21 Offensive head coaches 10 defensive head coaches and 1 special team head coach. Out of those coaches there are much more good coaches on the offensive side of the ball then there are defensive good head coaches.  I just think with the way the NFL is today you need a good offensive coach as the head coach. You can always find defensive coaches. But if you have a superior Offensive Coordinator the second he has a good year or even just people interested in him he is gone and he is basically taking your offensive system with him which messes with the QB if you have a good offensive head coach he runs his system he is there for the duration. 

I count 13 defensive minded head coaches.  Of those 13, Rivera, McDermott, Lewis, Tomlin, Zimmer, Carroll, Bill B., and Quinn have made the playoffs in the last three seasons. Three — Matt Patricia, Steve Wilkes, and Mike Vrabel — are in their first year. Bowles and Joseph are awful. 

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I know of a good offensive-minded head coach out in Pullman, Washington - but I doubt he’d come to Buffalo.

 

 

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10 minutes ago, NewDayBills said:

My ideology is simple, I expect my HC to field an elite unit on his side of the ball. So far I think McD can build a top 5 defense, if he can even just field a completely average offense we're golden. We have a ton of cap but I think the problem McD is going to have is his allowance. I think Terry is a fool if he let's McD spend 90 million. I would laugh hysterically if he did though and wonder how he became a billionaire. I'd like to see lots of 2-3 year deals we can get out of after 1 year.

The ignorance on this message board is plain laughable. 

 

McBeane has said several times they want to build through the draft and use cap space to sign the good, homegrown players to extensions. 

 

McDermott isn't going to go out there and completely eff up the cap situation in one offseason that he has spent the last two helping to clean up. 

 

Can we please pay attention as fans. Please. 

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Just now, Watkins90 said:

The ignorance on this message board is plain laughable. 

 

McBeane has said several times they want to build through the draft and use cap space to sign the good, homegrown players to extensions. 

 

McDermott isn't going to go out there and completely eff up the cap situation in one offseason that he has spent the last two helping to clean up. 

 

Can we please pay attention as fans. Please. 

Mmmmm ok. I bet they spend 60 million or in that vicinity. Do you expect us to stay 90 million under the cap? Why would you even think that?

 

And this guy calls the entire board ignorant lol... Ok buddy.

 

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1 hour ago, kbarrettb said:

So I have wanted to bring this up but didn't have time. The NFL is an offensive lead I think we can all agree to this or at least agree mostly about this. I was talking to a friend and we were talking about good head coaches and then we were talking about what side of the offensive defensive or special teams they coached before becoming head coaches. It got me thinking I don't hate McDermott I just think there are so few defensive good coaches in the league and in the league historically. We could only come up with Pete Carrol and Bill Belichick who were great head coaches who were defensive minded.

 

Total there are 21 Offensive head coaches 10 defensive head coaches and 1 special team head coach. Out of those coaches there are much more good coaches on the offensive side of the ball then there are defensive good head coaches.  I just think with the way the NFL is today you need a good offensive coach as the head coach. You can always find defensive coaches. But if you have a superior Offensive Coordinator the second he has a good year or even just people interested in him he is gone and he is basically taking your offensive system with him which messes with the QB if you have a good offensive head coach he runs his system he is there for the duration. 

 

Weird, 14 of the last 20 SB's have been won by defensive Head Coaches... 

Weird, the two highest scoring offenses in NFL history had defensive HC's...

 

- How many playoff appearances does Brees have over last 8 years?  Despite 5000 yard season after 5000 yard season?  Hint:  not many

- How many SB appearances does Rogers, Brees and Ryan have?  1 each.

- How did the highest scoring offense in NFL history do in the SB after going 17-0 in reg season?  Put up 14 points and lost to a defensive team.

- How did the second highest scoring team in the league in 2011 do in the SB in a rematch of above SB?  Put up 17 points and lost to same defensive team.

- How did defensive minded Harbaugh do against offensive minded brother Harbaugh in SB?  Defensive minded won with mediocre offense.

- How did Brady avoid going 1-4 in his last 5 SB's?  Butler intercepted a pass on last play of game when Seattle foolishly didn't run on the goaline...otherwise Pats lose again to defensive minded team.  And had Atlanta not mismanaged the other SB, Pats should have lost that one too thanks to Atlanta Defense.

- How did Brady do last year setting Super Bowl passing records?  Still lost despite setting all kinds of SB records

- Who was the head coach of the all time highest scoring offense in NFL History?  John Fox - Defensive HC

- Who was the head coach of the 2nd all time highest scoring offense in NFL History?  Bill Belicheck - Defensive HC

 

I mean there are a lot of pieces of evidence that contradict your opinion on this matter.

 

TRUTH IS:  There are a LOT of ways to win today.  Offense is the trendy word of the day, but this isnt fantasy football.  We all want a fun offense to watch, but this false narrative that you need a offensive minded HC is just a trendy fan opinion and not really accurate.

 

Edited by Alphadawg7
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1 minute ago, NewDayBills said:

Mmmmm ok. I bet they spend 60 million or in that vicinity. Do you expect us to stay 90 million under the cap? Why would you even think that?

 

And this guy calls the entire board ignorant lol... Ok buddy.

 

Where did I say they were going to stay 90 million under the cap. 

 

Come on, dude. Your first post made it sound like you think they'll go out there and blow all this money in long-term contracts, without realizing that McBeane has said all along they want to use cap money to sign homegrown players. 

 

Guess what, there is this little thing called the collective bargaining agreement. NFL teams have to spend at least 90 percent of their cap each year. 

 

If McBeane wants to keep money for resigning players, then they'll probably make a few splashy signings, but mostly have depth guys on short-term or one-year deals. 

 

I was simply pointing out that you made a statement that was completely false, and had you actually followed this team you'd have known what you were saying was complete nonsense. 

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18 minutes ago, The Senator said:

 

I know of a good offensive-minded head coach out in Pullman, Washington - but I doubt he’d come to Buffalo.

 

 

 

 

it's not college boys running tinker-toy option plays through overmatched cupcakes every week

 

the NFL is a million times more than that

 

 

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Just now, Watkins90 said:

Where did I say they were going to stay 90 million under the cap. 

 

Come on, dude. Your first post made it sound like you think they'll go out there and blow all this money in long-term contracts, without realizing that McBeane has said all along they want to use cap money to sign homegrown players. 

 

Guess what, there is this little thing called the collective bargaining agreement. NFL teams have to spend at least 90 percent of their cap each year. 

 

If McBeane wants to keep money for resigning players, then they'll probably make a few splashy signings, but mostly have depth guys on short-term or one-year deals. 

 

I was simply pointing out that you made a statement that was completely false, and had you actually followed this team you'd have known what you were saying was complete nonsense. 

What statement is false? You accused me of saying that they were going to botch the cap, if you read my post you would see that I think Terry Pegula will put financial restraints on McD and Beane, so they won't even get the chance.

 

Spare me the lengthy response, don't put words in my mouth again. If you want to have a discussion, it will be an intellectually honest one and not whatever this is.

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3 minutes ago, NewDayBills said:

What statement is false? You accused me of saying that they were going to botch the cap, if you read my post you would see that I think Terry Pegula will put financial restraints on McD and Beane, so they won't even get the chance.

 

Spare me the lengthy response, don't put words in my mouth again. If you want to have a discussion, it will be an intellectually honest one and not whatever this is.

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The bolded statement is false because McBeane has said repeatedly they were going to save cap room for signing homegrown talent. That's what I was pointing out. 

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Just now, Watkins90 said:

The bolded statement is false because McBeane has said repeatedly they were going to save cap room for signing homegrown talent. That's what I was pointing out. 

Who is up for a contract? I can't think of anyone. Nothing I said was false, nothing. Seems you're arguing with me over an opinion or statement I did not make, really weird. 

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11 minutes ago, row_33 said:

 

 

it's not college boys running tinker-toy option plays through overmatched cupcakes every week

 

the NFL is a million times more than that

 

 

 

 

If you think Leach has built his career on winning games against over matched cupcakes, you aren't paying attention.  

 

 

The NFL is moving more and more towards the air raid offense.  I think Leach would be a very interesting option in this NFL climate. 

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55 minutes ago, NewDayBills said:

My ideology is simple, I expect my HC to field an elite unit on his side of the ball. So far I think McD can build a top 5 defense, if he can even just field a completely average offense we're golden. We have a ton of cap but I think the problem McD is going to have is his allowance. I think Terry is a fool if he let's McD spend 90 million. I would laugh hysterically if he did though and wonder how he became a billionaire. I'd like to see lots of 2-3 year deals we can get out of after 1 year.

Seriously? " If he can field even a COMPLETELY average offense we're golden" 

Golden what? please enlighten us on how an average offense is golden in this era of NFL football. 

BTW, the Bills are around 4th in available cap nest year. And a lot of those 10 picks are

in later rounds. Every team in the league will make improvements. 90 M is not going to flip this trash offense. in a year. 

The Panthers don't have 90M worth of trash FA's to help Beane out. 

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1 hour ago, Watkins90 said:

The ignorance on this message board is plain laughable. 

 

McBeane has said several times they want to build through the draft and use cap space to sign the good, homegrown players to extensions. 

 

McDermott isn't going to go out there and completely eff up the cap situation in one offseason that he has spent the last two helping to clean up. 

 

Can we please pay attention as fans. Please. 

 

What else would they say? That they're going to squander $90 million on overpriced free agents? 

 

Judging by the constant turnover of GM's in sports, I think it's far more ignorant to blindly assume that one will accomplish his goals just because he said it in a press conference. 

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Everybody making defense arguments I think are just missing how much the league has titled towards offense, with the rules in the last 2-3 years. And it’s not about to swing back. 

 

Take that 2007 Giants-Pats SB. The front four made Brady nervous, hit him just after throws, now those are 15 yard flags. Guys like Bradshaw, Jacobs, Manningham, made impacts, slower, physical runners and receivers. Modern NFL is all spacing and speed, those guys and that style are relics now.

 

NE understands this, cut Blount, relay on smaller quicker guys like White, get them in space and the already hamstrung defenses can do little.

 

Evolution is needed at OBD, and I don’t see anything about McDermott or his coaching, staff, player, or in game decisions, suggesting it’s coming 

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1 hour ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Weird, 14 of the last 20 SB's have been won by defensive Head Coaches... 

Weird, the two highest scoring offenses in NFL history had defensive HC's...

 

- How many playoff appearances does Brees have over last 8 years?  Despite 5000 yard season after 5000 yard season?  Hint:  not many

- How many SB appearances does Rogers, Brees and Ryan have?  1 each.

- How did the highest scoring offense in NFL history do in the SB after going 17-0 in reg season?  Put up 14 points and lost to a defensive team.

- How did the second highest scoring team in the league in 2011 do in the SB in a rematch of above SB?  Put up 17 points and lost to same defensive team.

- How did defensive minded Harbaugh do against offensive minded brother Harbaugh in SB?  Defensive minded won with mediocre offense.

- How did Brady avoid going 1-4 in his last 5 SB's?  Butler intercepted a pass on last play of game when Seattle foolishly didn't run on the goaline...otherwise Pats lose again to defensive minded team.  And had Atlanta not mismanaged the other SB, Pats should have lost that one too thanks to Atlanta Defense.

- How did Brady do last year setting Super Bowl passing records?  Still lost despite setting all kinds of SB records

- Who was the head coach of the all time highest scoring offense in NFL History?  John Fox - Defensive HC

- Who was the head coach of the 2nd all time highest scoring offense in NFL History?  Bill Belicheck - Defensive HC

 

I mean there are a lot of pieces of evidence that contradict your opinion on this matter.

 

TRUTH IS:  There are a LOT of ways to win today.  Offense is the trendy word of the day, but this isnt fantasy football.  We all want a fun offense to watch, but this false narrative that you need a offensive minded HC is just a trendy fan opinion and not really accurate.

 

Outstanding. Especially the last paragraph. 

 

I still can’t appreciate calling Belichick a defensive coach just because he came into the league and made his initial reputation on that side of the ball. He’s just as much a master of offensive football as well, as you alluded to. But I won’t quibble. Good post, Alpha.

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1 hour ago, row_33 said:

 

 

it's not college boys running tinker-toy option plays through overmatched cupcakes every week

 

the NFL is a million times more than that

 

 

 

Really?  ‘Cause I’m fairly certain that ‘bama could beat these Bills.

 

Hell , UB could probably beat these Bills.

Edited by The Senator

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1 hour ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Weird, 14 of the last 20 SB's have been won by defensive Head Coaches... 

Weird, the two highest scoring offenses in NFL history had defensive HC's...

...

 

TRUTH IS:  There are a LOT of ways to win today.  Offense is the trendy word of the day, but this isnt fantasy football.  We all want a fun offense to watch, but this false narrative that you need a offensive minded HC is just a trendy fan opinion and not really accurate.

 

 

Quiet you - no one wants facts muddying up their opinions.

 

I mean, the NFL is an offensive lead and there are much more good coaches on the offensive side of the ball.  🤣

 

 

(and for real A7, thanks for always bringing a fact gun to these knife fights :beer: )

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The good teams are generally never well under the cap. They find ways to restructure, etc.

 

It would be asinine to think there's a long term advantage to staying comfortably under the cap.

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Well, I suppose if your defense can put points on the board, that strategy might work.

 

If your offense can’t score, you’re screwed.  Statement of fact.

 

The Sabres outscored the Bills last weekend.

 

Edited by The Senator

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2 hours ago, NewDayBills said:

Who is up for a contract? I can't think of anyone. Nothing I said was false, nothing. Seems you're arguing with me over an opinion or statement I did not make, really weird. 

 

 

 

Cannot answer for this coming offseason, but the history of the Bills is we draft good players and watch them sign with other teams because they were "too expensive."  Robert Woods comes immediately to mind as a recent example.   We have potential young talent on this team; milano, edmunds, dawkins, lawson, white, yarbourgh, poyer, hyde and who knows how our rookies (7 active, 1 IR, and 4 PS) will pan out.  Granted resigning these guys are a few years down the road, but blowing all our cap space in one year does not sound like the way to build a Consistent winner.

Edited by mabden

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2 hours ago, NewDayBills said:

Who is up for a contract? I can't think of anyone. Nothing I said was false, nothing. Seems you're arguing with me over an opinion or statement I did not make, really weird. 

 

We cut or traded almost every rookie contract more than 18 months old. We are spending on outside talent 

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5 hours ago, kbarrettb said:

So I have wanted to bring this up but didn't have time. The NFL is an offensive lead I think we can all agree to this or at least agree mostly about this. I was talking to a friend and we were talking about good head coaches and then we were talking about what side of the offensive defensive or special teams they coached before becoming head coaches. It got me thinking I don't hate McDermott I just think there are so few defensive good coaches in the league and in the league historically. We could only come up with Pete Carrol and Bill Belichick who were great head coaches who were defensive minded.

 

Total there are 21 Offensive head coaches 10 defensive head coaches and 1 special team head coach. Out of those coaches there are much more good coaches on the offensive side of the ball then there are defensive good head coaches.  I just think with the way the NFL is today you need a good offensive coach as the head coach. You can always find defensive coaches. But if you have a superior Offensive Coordinator the second he has a good year or even just people interested in him he is gone and he is basically taking your offensive system with him which messes with the QB if you have a good offensive head coach he runs his system he is there for the duration. 

Great head coaches have their fingerprints all over the team..you can still have a defensive background and be a great coach..what separates caroll and belichick from some other defensive coaches is that even tho they have  a background in defence they are still very involved in the offensive aspect of their teams heavily and have input in the game plan and actively involve themselves in every phase..then you have coaches who are pretty much hands off and let the coordinators do the grunt which doesnt work if your coordinators dont perform see jason garett mcdermott and jeff fisher

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