MDH Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 41 minutes ago, wppete said: This season has been depressing. Possible the worst I have ever seen. Anyone remember a season that has been worse recently? The posters who like losing for draft position hated last year. It was the worst season in 18 years. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xsoldier54 Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 Just now, jrober38 said: Last year the line was good and we had LeSean McCoy and McDermott still opted to punt on 4th and short in opposition territory 90% of the time. What you're saying isn't in touch with what this coach has demonstrated numerous times over the past 26 games. You're going to have to do better than that. Show me the stats of how many times he did this and what the game situations were, what was the score? what quarter was the game in? Every single coach in the NFL has done exactly what you are complaining about at some point, depending on the game situation. If you're looking for a coach who will never punt on 4th and short on the other side of the fifty yard line, good luck with that. You will NEVER find one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrober38 Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 Just now, NewEra said: You’ve quickly become the worst, most shortsighted poster on the board. Just terrible Nothing about what I'm saying is short sighted. We have a coach who doesn't understand basic probabilities who punts on 4th and short in opposition territory all the time. Our head coaches philosophy doesn't work in today's NFL. That's not going to suddenly change. We're talking about a guy who punted, and consciously played for a tie against the Colts last year instead of playing to win, even though a tie would have eliminated us from playoff contention. This is a guy who time and time again will not budge from his philosophy and it's a philosophy that doesn't win in the NFL anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBuff423 Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 19 minutes ago, jrober38 said: The question then becomes who hires the OC? I'm fairly certain it's McDermott, so do we really want to let him hire a 3rd OC in 3 years? Probably not. No, we're the laughing stock because we have the worst offense in NFL history adjusting for era. The team, and our inability to score points is why we're the laughing stock of the league right now. The outside world fails to appreciate what needs to be done....national media are the worst at this. We, as fans, should embrace this total tear down on Offense, because it's what we've known needed to be done for a decade. No HC and GM have had the stones to do just that....get rid of the driftwood, take on a rebuild and do it the way they believe it needs to be done - hell or high water. I respect that. I know you don't but at the end of the day, a man needs to lead with his conviction of ideals. That's admirable no matter how you slice it. Truth is, the Bills were several years behind the times when Wrex was here in revamping the Offense. The Offenses that are record-setting are ones that have taken two or more years to build. The Bills are in year 1 of tear down. Build up is next year and depth and power are year two. Sorry. But thems the brakes... 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CodeMonkey Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 4 minutes ago, jrober38 said: Last year the line was good and we had LeSean McCoy and McDermott still opted to punt on 4th and short in opposition territory 90% of the time. What you're saying isn't in touch with what this coach has demonstrated numerous times over the past 26 games. The offense last year was better, but not good. Defense was the strength last season as well as this season (plus McCoach is a D guy). The same argument holds, he trusts the D much more than the O, both seasons. Obviously much more so this season given the current dumpster fire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatdrinks Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 3 minutes ago, xsoldier54 said: Did they win that playoff game? Must have missed it. And they were way more than one WR and a QB away from competing for a SB, but since you're the one that brought it up, one has already been addressed and I expect WR will be as well. Having said that, with this OL, it wouldn't matter much who is playing those two positions. What I said was they were a QB and WR away from a divisional game. They lost the WC 10-3, courtesy of a lack of QB and WR play. Yes, they needed more work to be a serious SB contender, but they are much much further away from that now. The blame for that can be squarely laid at the feet of McDermott and Beane. Their decisions and missteps brought that about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBuff423 Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 15 minutes ago, CodeMonkey said: They went 9-7 last year ... somehow. Don't make it a huge head coaching accomplishment. Look back, several times the Bills were 9-7 during the drought. He largely inherited that team. This is a team that he helped create. Way too early to tar a feather him, but please stop with the making the playoffs at 9-7 is a great accomplishment talk. I didn't say it was...it was in response to McD being fired and him needing to go and I pointed to an accomplishment no other HC has done since Wade. However you want to dissect it or make it excuses for why it should or shouldn't be...fact is he made the playoffs with an off-cast of talent in many respects and that's just the bottom line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 Just now, jrober38 said: Nothing about what I'm saying is short sighted. We have a coach who doesn't understand basic probabilities who punts on 4th and short in opposition territory all the time. Our head coaches philosophy doesn't work in today's NFL. That's not going to suddenly change. We're talking about a guy who punted, and consciously played for a tie against the Colts last year instead of playing to win, even though a tie would have eliminated us from playoff contention. This is a guy who time and time again will not budge from his philosophy and it's a philosophy that doesn't win in the NFL anymore. Cool story. Thanks for sharing. 9999284756582829475639375759 times in every thread on the site. Thanks again. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrober38 Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 1 minute ago, BigBuff423 said: The outside world fails to appreciate what needs to be done....national media are the worst at this. We, as fans, should embrace this total tear down on Offense, because it's what we've known needed to be done for a decade. No HC and GM have had the stones to do just that....get rid of the driftwood, take on a rebuild and do it the way they believe it needs to be done - hell or high water. I respect that. I know you don't but at the end of the day, a man needs to lead with his conviction of ideals. That's admirable no matter how you slice it. Truth is, the Bills were several years behind the times when Wrex was here in revamping the Offense. The Offenses that are record-setting are ones that have taken two or more years to build. The Bills are in year 1 of tear down. Build up is next year and depth and power are year two. Sorry. But thems the brakes... Serious question - when has a total tear down ever worked in the NFL? It's worked in the NBA, but tanking in the NFL doesn't have much, if any track record of success. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1st&ten Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 45 minutes ago, wppete said: This season has been depressing. Possible the worst I have ever seen. Anyone remember a season that has been worse recently? Well, these are not all recent, but I've seen them all----- 1968----1-12-1 1970---3-10-1 1984---2-14 1985---2-14 1986---4-12 2001---3-13 2010---4-12 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Arnold Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 8 minutes ago, jrober38 said: Last year the line was good and we had LeSean McCoy and McDermott still opted to punt on 4th and short in opposition territory 90% of the time. What you're saying isn't in touch with what this coach has demonstrated numerous times over the past 26 games. Rober - stop making stuff up. https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2018/aggressiveness-index-2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatdrinks Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 7 minutes ago, row_33 said: you are all hepped up on any kind of playoff, not worth it i want a building of an honest contender and that's what is going to happen now We will see. I like to see progress, not a massive regression to being flat out uncompetitive. You have a lot more faith in Beane and McD’s “ process” than I do. I think they’ve dug themselves too deep a hole to climb out of in a reasonable amount of time. Perhaps the next GM/ HC combo will walk into a decent setup and build on it, rather than dismantle it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CodeMonkey Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 (edited) 4 minutes ago, BigBuff423 said: I didn't say it was...it was in response to McD being fired and him needing to go and I pointed to an accomplishment no other HC has done since Wade. However you want to dissect it or make it excuses for why it should or shouldn't be...fact is he made the playoffs with an off-cast of talent in many respects and that's just the bottom line. Yes, at 9-7 the stars aligned, God smiled down on them and they got the wildcard. And it was fun to see the locker room reaction after the Bungles play that sealed it. Edited November 6, 2018 by CodeMonkey 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDH Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 Just now, jrober38 said: We have a coach who doesn't understand basic probabilities who punts on 4th and short in opposition territory all the time. Im a big believer in going for it on 4th down, even on 4th and 2 or 3 way more than the HCs in the NFL do it. But your point holds zero water. Zero. This offense is historically bad. The defense is actually pretty good. Why on earth would anyone trust this offense to do anything positive? The probabilities generated by other, functioning, offenses means very little. This team is probably better off punting on 3rd and long just to avoid turnovers than it is going for it in 4th and short. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 13 minutes ago, 1st&ten said: Well, these are not all recent, but I've seen them all----- 1968----1-12-1 1970---3-10-1 1984---2-14 1985---2-14 1986---4-12 2001---3-13 2010---4-12 when Juice went down 1977 was the worst of my years since 1973 to watch 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cd1 Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 48 minutes ago, jrober38 said: I hope our franchise isn't as inept as Cleveland. Don't get me wrong BUT... I watched a Cleveland game recently and, although they did NOT WIN, they played like an NFL football team. I was actually envious... Is that ***** sad or what? Ha Ha Ha! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 9 minutes ago, cd1 said: Don't get me wrong BUT... I watched a Cleveland game recently and, although they did NOT WIN, they played like an NFL football team. I was actually envious... Is that ***** sad or what? Ha Ha Ha! it's been quite cozy and comfortable sitting around with the Fish and Jets the whole Brady Era, none of the 3 non-Pats teams have bothered to get going on what wins in the NFL with the Pats sitting right there every freaking year.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBuff423 Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 Just now, jrober38 said: Serious question - when has a total tear down ever worked in the NFL? It's worked in the NBA, but tanking in the NFL doesn't have much, if any track record of success. I know I've answered this question before, maybe not to you, but I know for a fact it wasn't too long ago.....yes, it has - as you mentioned Payton, Belichick, and then look at Holmgren, Parcells, etc....the NFL history is littered with teams who bottomed out only to rebound to great heights. Bill Walsh was 2-14 in his first year and won the Super Bowl two years later, his third as HC of the 49ers. I could go on, but history would not seem to be something you're really interested in....and I'm not throwing jabs, I'm just saying I think you're frustrated - and I really honestly understand that - but that doesn't change facts and it shouldn't change the course of action for the Bills for this year and through 2019, because that's what this whole thing is about. A 4 year plan with year 3 showing real, lasting results of improvement and good football. IMHO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roundybout Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 11 minutes ago, jrober38 said: Nothing about what I'm saying is short sighted. We have a coach who doesn't understand basic probabilities who punts on 4th and short in opposition territory all the time. Our head coaches philosophy doesn't work in today's NFL. That's not going to suddenly change. We're talking about a guy who punted, and consciously played for a tie against the Colts last year instead of playing to win, even though a tie would have eliminated us from playoff contention. This is a guy who time and time again will not budge from his philosophy and it's a philosophy that doesn't win in the NFL anymore. Seems like a bit of an exaggeration for a season and a half of work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrober38 Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 6 minutes ago, Wayne Arnold said: Rober - stop making stuff up. https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2018/aggressiveness-index-2017 Your chart clearly shows we didn't go for it 90% of the time on 4th and short when between the opponents 31 and 37 yard line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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