Jump to content
Shaw66

THE ROCKPILE REVIEW - Just Plain Bad

Recommended Posts

8 minutes ago, Stank_Nasty said:

right off the top of my head.... the play that got called back in Houston. rolling to his left and heading out of bounds, he absolutely uncorks a laser 40 yds downfield into kb's hands. 

 

there havnt been a lot but they are there.

That play was incredible.

 

Beyond that, I don't see the guy making bad decisions.  Yes, he isn't seeing all of the opportunities downfield, and I hope and expect that will improve.  But he isn't getting fooled by what he is seeing.    I haven't seen him making decisions like Peterman's pick-six in Houston or like Anderson's pick-six against the Patriots.  And he IS making some good decisions and he has the physical skill to deliver, as he did on the throw to Benjamin that you're talking about.   He has the ability and uses it to get out of the pocket.   He's shown that he's already pretty good at deciding WHEN to get out of the pocket.   He keeps looking downfield, and he seems to have a pretty good idea of where he's going to find receivers as the patterns break down.  That, too, he should get better at.  And he has the arm to deliver the ball to where it needs to be. 

 

Consider, for example, the play against the Bears where Peterman scramble left, saw Benjamin open, had to stop scrambling, set his feet and then throw.   In the meantime, Benjamin had to move, so he broke deep and was open in the end zone.   Peterman floated the ball to him and Benjamin was hung out to dry.   Could have caught it, but I don't blame him for dropping it.  He was crushed.  I thought immediately about what Allen would have done on that play.   He would have completed the pass.  Either he doesn't have to stop and get set, he just flips it out there like Aaron Rodgers would have.   Benjamin would have caught the ball at the 20, first down, keep playing.   OR, Benjamin would have broken for the end zone, Allen would have gotten set and delivered a bullet to Benjamin, who would have caught the ball and the ref's two arms would have signalled touchdown before any defender could get there to hit him.  

 

Allen has the tools, and he's been learning the things he needs to learn.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

Allen has the tools, and he's been learning the things he needs to learn.  

 

He has all the tools except accuracy.  If he learns to be accurate he will be fine, maybe even great.  If he doesn't, we'll be having the discussion in a couple years of what franchise QB to draft again.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, CodeMonkey said:

 

He has all the tools except accuracy.  If he learns to be accurate he will be fine, maybe even great.  If he doesn't, we'll be having the discussion in a couple years of what franchise QB to draft again.

Frankly, I think the accuracy claims are overblown and maybe even imaginary.   

 

First, an accuracy problem is part of the conventional wisdom that followed Allen out of college.   I don't think it was very well supported by the evidence then.   

 

Second, I don't see the accuracy problems when I watch him.   I DO see him having some touch and delivery issues on short balls.   He hasn't yet figured out how to dial down velocity without underthrowing some balls.  I'll admit that I don't know for a fact that he can solve that problem, but it looks to me like he can.   

 

Third, I've seen him deliver a lot of remarkably accurate throws.  He may have a problem with CONSISTENCY, in that he doesn't make accurate throws often enough.  

 

Fourth, I've seen him do so many positive things, including with his legs, that whatever accuracy problems I've seen do not seem to be fatal or even near-fatal in terms of his ability to be a good quarterback in the NFL.   

 

We all get hung up by what we see from the greats.   We tend to think Allen can't make it because he doesn't have Brees-type accuracy.  Well, Elway didn't have Brees-like accuracy, but he an Allen-like arm.  

 

Every QB is different, every QB combines different characteristics.   If the entire basket of characteristics is, collectively, enough to succeed, great, the guy succeeds.  If it isn't enough, he doesn't.   My point really is that when I look at the basket of skills Allen has shown us so far, I don't see anything or things that are so bad that I don't think he can make it.   I like what I see. 

  • Like 2
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
45 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

That play was incredible.

 

Beyond that, I don't see the guy making bad decisions.  Yes, he isn't seeing all of the opportunities downfield, and I hope and expect that will improve.  But he isn't getting fooled by what he is seeing.    I haven't seen him making decisions like Peterman's pick-six in Houston or like Anderson's pick-six against the Patriots.  And he IS making some good decisions and he has the physical skill to deliver, as he did on the throw to Benjamin that you're talking about.   He has the ability and uses it to get out of the pocket.   He's shown that he's already pretty good at deciding WHEN to get out of the pocket.   He keeps looking downfield, and he seems to have a pretty good idea of where he's going to find receivers as the patterns break down.  That, too, he should get better at.  And he has the arm to deliver the ball to where it needs to be. 

 

Consider, for example, the play against the Bears where Peterman scramble left, saw Benjamin open, had to stop scrambling, set his feet and then throw.   In the meantime, Benjamin had to move, so he broke deep and was open in the end zone.   Peterman floated the ball to him and Benjamin was hung out to dry.   Could have caught it, but I don't blame him for dropping it.  He was crushed.  I thought immediately about what Allen would have done on that play.   He would have completed the pass.  Either he doesn't have to stop and get set, he just flips it out there like Aaron Rodgers would have.   Benjamin would have caught the ball at the 20, first down, keep playing.   OR, Benjamin would have broken for the end zone, Allen would have gotten set and delivered a bullet to Benjamin, who would have caught the ball and the ref's two arms would have signalled touchdown before any defender could get there to hit him.  

 

Allen has the tools, and he's been learning the things he needs to learn.  

bolded is huge for me..... yes, he's missing opportunities. but he hasn't hasn't made very many back breaking plays that take the air out of the whole team the way the other 2 have. the crap situations that the current qb's repeatedly leave the defense in is just so disheartening.... i'm confident he'll start seeing those small windows of opportunity soon enough. and when he finally does? LOOK OUT...…. reps reps reps. 

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
29 minutes ago, Stank_Nasty said:

bolded is huge for me..... yes, he's missing opportunities. but he hasn't hasn't made very many back breaking plays that take the air out of the whole team the way the other 2 have. the crap situations that the current qb's repeatedly leave the defense in is just so disheartening.... i'm confident he'll start seeing those small windows of opportunity soon enough. and when he finally does? LOOK OUT...…. reps reps reps. 

That's what I see.  And as I've said, I like that he's had a few weeks off to decompress and now will be able to come back and get a few more weeks of on-field experience.  It wasn't by design but it's almost a perfect way to go through a qb's rookie season. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

That's what I see.  And as I've said, I like that he's had a few weeks off to decompress and now will be able to come back and get a few more weeks of on-field experience.  It wasn't by design but it's almost a perfect way to go through a qb's rookie season. 

I begrudgingly agree... I think I heard somewhere yesterday that even if darnold hadn't gotten hurt, the jets were thinking of giving him a break. his season was starting to snowball. I don't know one way or the other if that would have happened to allen(i'd like to think not). but i'm thankful we didn't have to find out, he got to get some experience and reflect, and now come back with an even better head on his shoulders(hypothetically).

 

as you have said, its all on him. he really is on an island at this point with what he's got around him and who's on the sideline. i'm glad to see a late rounder like teller flashed on sunday. i'd like to think that's a hole filled going into the offseason. i'm grasping at any slight glimmer of hope I can find at this point. 

Edited by Stank_Nasty

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, Stank_Nasty said:

I begrudgingly agree... I think I heard somewhere yesterday that even if darnold hadn't gotten hurt, the jets were thinking of giving him a break. his season was starting to snowball. I don't know one way or the other if that would have happened to allen(i'd like to think not). but i'm thankful we didn't have to find out, he got to get some experience and reflect, and now come back with an even better head on his shoulders(hypothetically).

 

as you have said, its all on him. he really is on an island at this point with what he's got around him and who's on the sideline. i'm glad to see a late rounder like teller flashed on sunday. i'd like to think that's a hole filled going into the offseason. i'm grasping at any slight glimmer of hope I can find at this point. 

No guarantees, but I predict that when Allen comes back we're going to be wondering how come Benjamin and Jones and the other receivers all of a sudden got better. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
57 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

No guarantees, but I predict that when Allen comes back we're going to be wondering how come Benjamin and Jones and the other receivers all of a sudden got better. 

 

That would be great! Good Allen discussion up above, btw. You guys haven't convinced me, but I'll continue to wait and see. I will say that the team has mostly looked more competitive when he plays, even when he plays bad. Small sample size, but hopefully there's something there. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, Cash said:

 

That would be great! Good Allen discussion up above, btw. You guys haven't convinced me, but I'll continue to wait and see. I will say that the team has mostly looked more competitive when he plays, even when he plays bad. Small sample size, but hopefully there's something there. 

Obviously, none of us knows.  But I'm encouraged.  As you say, the team looks better when he plays. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Stank_Nasty said:

right off the top of my head.... the play that got called back in Houston. rolling to his left and heading out of bounds, he absolutely uncorks a laser 40 yds downfield into kb's hands. 

 

there havnt been a lot but they are there.

Remember that one and it seems so long ago that he played.  I liked glimpses he gave the Bills, but been a tough year.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The kid has hardly played at all! Can you please give him some time?  So far he looks pretty much exactly as advertised.  He's young, and at times, wild.  But... he's shown tremendous competitive fire and an NFL strength arm.  RELAX already. He's got a lot to learn and I'm pretty sure that he will.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, SoCal Deek said:

The kid has hardly played at all! Can you please give him some time?  So far he looks pretty much exactly as advertised.  He's young, and at times, wild.  But... he's shown tremendous competitive fire and an NFL strength arm.  RELAX already. He's got a lot to learn and I'm pretty sure that he will.

To get back to the original point, assuming Allen becomes what we hope, can this GM and HC shape a winning team around him?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
42 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

To get back to the original point, assuming Allen becomes what we hope, can this GM and HC shape a winning team around him?

I believe so.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
49 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

To get back to the original point, assuming Allen becomes what we hope, can this GM and HC shape a winning team around him?

And based on their body of work wrt the Offense, I have very little trust in them.  

 

Maybe the best case scenario is NP starts Sunday and they get anihilated by McCown & the Jets, McD fired and they reset over the bye week.  

 

I will concede that the trades in the 2017 pre-season & handling of the Offense & NP have clouded my judgement, and they need to prove a lot to me. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

And based on their body of work wrt the Offense, I have very little trust in them.  

 

Maybe the best case scenario is NP starts Sunday and they get anihilated by McCown & the Jets, McD fired and they reset over the bye week.  

 

I will concede that the trades in the 2017 pre-season & handling of the Offense & NP have clouded my judgement, and they need to prove a lot to me. 

I want to believe, but 2018 (not 2017) give me serious pause.  

 

I think there's more or less no chance that there will be a GM or HC change before the end of the 2019 season.  

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

I want to believe, but 2018 (not 2017) give me serious pause.  

 

I think there's more or less no chance that there will be a GM or HC change before the end of the 2019 season.  

Again I don't want to wait that long, have waited plenty long enough........

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Again I don't want to wait that long, have waited plenty long enough........

You and I don't get a vote.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

You and I don't get a vote.  

We do have this website!!!!  C'mon if Peterman starts and the score in 40-3 NYJ wouldn't be a bad thing would it?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

We do have this website!!!!  C'mon if Peterman starts and the score in 40-3 NYJ wouldn't be a bad thing would it?

you are going full "knee jerk" here. calm down.... the guy just ended the drought last year in his first season with very little talent and then they tore the team down even further. they went out and go their qb's on offense and defense. inexperienced players in key spots. they have holes to fill this offseason.

 

let it play out. 

Edited by Stank_Nasty

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, oldmanfan said:

I believe so.

I sure hope so. D seems not to be a problem, and they will certainly have the tools in the toolbox for overhauling the offensive supporting cast.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, Stank_Nasty said:

you are going full "knee jerk" here. calm down.... the guy just ended the drought last year in his first season with very little talent and then they tore the team down even further. they went out and go their qb's on offense and defense. inexperienced players in key spots. they have holes to fill this offseason.

 

let it play out. 

Fine with me.

 

Except I'm getting old. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Shaw66 said:

Fine with me.

 

Except I'm getting old. 

hahaha. fair enough.... 

 

FWIW I can see the judgement of these coaches. its hard to get passed the mental errors and not put some blame on the guys in charge. that's for sure.... but i'm not gonna let one half a season erase something that nobody in the previous 17 yrs couldn't get done.

 

if things don't change next year that obviously changes things.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

Fine with me.

 

Except I'm getting old. 

Fine with me too and I'm already old

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

Fine with me too and I'm already old

I am comfortably in the Get off my Lawn Club. I am skeptical this regime knows what to do in order to rebuild the offense. I give Daboll somewhat of a pass because he has so little to work with. Castillo doesn't seem good to me. I'm sorry Kromer could not be persuaded to stay. I think they get this offseason to turn the offense around. It will have to show significant improvement, imo, or someone is walking the plank. I like Allen if he has good coaching and the right pieces around him to help him develop. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sorry I can't get past what they did to the offense and not understanding how you win in the NFL today.  They keep hoping that all they need is to win the battle of field position, get turnovers and grind out 13-10 games is the key to success.    

 

2017 they took an okay offense (though I hated their passing game) and turned it into a disaster.  And they did what they could in the offseason to make it even worse.

 

They get blown out way too often and even in their wins not fun to watch.  They played 20 minutes of good football vs. Minny and that was it.  

 

The defense is good, but more in a bend don't break way and this goes back to 2017.  That only works for so long.   

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×