Josh Allen is all that matters

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

19 hours ago, Rocky Landing said:

Let me quote McDermott here: "... he's certainly grown during his time out."

 

This contradicts some of the sentiments expressed on this thread that Allen won't develop unless he is on the field. 

 

My concern is that he gets brought along too quickly on the field with a team with WRs that he can't trust to make plays, and an O-line that can't adequately protect him. It would be a shame to see him learning to scramble too quickly, not trust the pocket, not acquire pocket presence, not be willing to sling the ball, when the situation called for it, or turn into another Captain Checkdown.

 

Theres been a minor overhaul at WR with an infusion of speed. Excited to see Josh work with it. 

[transplantbillsfan]

On 11/20/2018 at 7:54 PM, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

 

And a whole bunch of other things. It'll depend on how well all their decisions come together. It's a wildly complex system.

 

Agreed that drafting well is the most important thing. So far - leaving Allen as an unknown out of it - they appear to have drafted quite well, I think.

 

On 11/20/2018 at 8:07 PM, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Agreed that he was stretching it. But you are too. He didn't sell off all of his good players for picks. We're the #1 defense in the league for Pete's sakes, they have some talent.

 

And yeah we could have kept more picks. But coming out of that draft without a potential franchise QB would have been a massive massive mistake. And they didn't know how much it would cost to trade up for one of the top four.

 

And the Bills young talent has looked really good, actually. Just young. A ton of room for development as years pass. And guys like Milano, Taron Johnson, Wyatt Teller, Zay Jones, Dawkins, Jordan Phillips  and Tre'D who you're leaving out because they don't fit your narrative shows the weakness of your argument. Our young talent has been pretty damn good. It's not having enough older experienced talent that has held us back so far ... and that's how things generally look early in rebuilds.

 

Way too early to say this rebuild will succeed. No way to know. But they have a good young group of talent in place that has a very decent chance of growing together and being quite good, though yeah it will depend on the guys they continue to bring in and how/if this group, very much including Allen, continue to improve.

 

I completely agree with Thurm... awesome...

[Thurman#1]

On 11/22/2018 at 8:00 AM, TaskersGhost said:

 

Leave Allen out of if and they essentially have nothing from their drafts on offense.  

 

Drafted OK on D, horribly on O. 

 

 

 

Still encouraged/optimistic? 

 

 

Yeah, absolutely, as should anyone be.

 

Your opinion that they've drafted "OK on D, horribly on O" says a lot more about you and how you're forming opinions than it does about how well they've drafted.

 

Defense:

 

2017 1st:  TreDavious White

2017 5th:  Matt Milano

2017 7th: Tanner Vallejo

2018 1st:  Tremaine Edmunds

2018 3rd:  Harrison Phillips

2018 4th:  Taron Johnson  

2018 5th:  Siran Neal

 

That's excellent drafting on defense. These are all very very young guys, of course, But for all but Vallejo (7th) and Neal (5th), they're all either producing above what you'd expect from their draft slot or looking like they have a very good chance of doing so soon.

 

Offense: 

 

2017 2nd:  Zay Jones

2017 2nd:  Dion Dawkins

2017 5th:  Nathan Peterman  

2018 1st:  Josh Allen

2018 5th:  Wyatt Teller

2018 6th:  Ray-Ray McCloud

2018 7th:  Austin Proehl

 

Thinking that's horrible makes it likely you're either not paying attention or not understanding what you see. "They essentially have nothing from their drafts on offense"? That's a laughable opinion. Wanna say something more reasonable, like, "They still have a lot to prove"? Fair enough, they do, as does nearly everyone drafted that recently. But Jones and Dawkins both look good. Allen ... who knows, it's still incredibly early. With Teller it's still early days, but so far he's outperforming his draft slot and looking promising indeed. The rest, a 5th, a 6th and a 7th haven't showed much but that's pretty typical for guys picked that late.

 

That's a case of not putting many resources into the offense - outside of all the picks it took to bring in Allen - but decent to promising results so far with those they did choose.

 

 

 

 

Edited November 24, 2018 by Thurman#1

[LSHMEAB]

11 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Yeah, absolutely, as should anyone be.

 

Your opinion that they've drafted "OK on D, horribly on O" says a lot more about you and how you're forming opinions than it does about how well they've drafted.

 

Defense:

 

2017 1st:  TreDavious White

2017 5th:  Matt Milano

2017 7th: Tanner Vallejo

2018 1st:  Tremaine Edmunds

2018 3rd:  Harrison Phillips

2018 4th:  Taron Johnson  

2018 5th:  Siran Neal

 

That's excellent drafting on defense. These are all very very young guys, of course, But for all but Vallejo (7th) and Neal (5th), they're all either producing above what you'd expect from their draft slot or looking like they have a very good chance of doing so soon.

 

Offense: 

 

2017 2nd:  Zay Jones

2017 2nd:  Dion Dawkins

2017 5th:  Nathan Peterman  

2018 1st:  Josh Allen

2018 5th:  Wyatt Teller

2018 6th:  Ray-Ray McCloud

2018 7th:  Austin Proehl

 

Thinking that's horrible makes it likely you're on some level trolling. "They essentially have nothing from their drafts on offense"? That's a laughable opinion. Jones and Dawkins both look good. Allen ... who knows, it's still incredibly early. With Teller it's still early days, but so far he's outperforming his draft slot and looking promising indeed. The rest, a 5th, a 6th and a 7th haven't showed much but that's pretty typical for guys picked that late.

 

That's a case of not putting many resources into the offense - outside of all the picks it took to bring in Allen - but decent to promising results so far with those they did choose.

 

 

 

 

The only one of those draft picks that's going to matter is Allen.

[BillsFan130]

15 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Yeah, absolutely, as should anyone be.

 

Your opinion that they've drafted "OK on D, horribly on O" says a lot more about you and how you're forming opinions than it does about how well they've drafted.

 

Defense:

 

2017 1st:  TreDavious White

2017 5th:  Matt Milano

2017 7th: Tanner Vallejo

2018 1st:  Tremaine Edmunds

2018 3rd:  Harrison Phillips

2018 4th:  Taron Johnson  

2018 5th:  Siran Neal

 

That's excellent drafting on defense. These are all very very young guys, of course, But for all but Vallejo (7th) and Neal (5th), they're all either producing above what you'd expect from their draft slot or looking like they have a very good chance of doing so soon.

 

Offense: 

 

2017 2nd:  Zay Jones

2017 2nd:  Dion Dawkins

2017 5th:  Nathan Peterman  

2018 1st:  Josh Allen

2018 5th:  Wyatt Teller

2018 6th:  Ray-Ray McCloud

2018 7th:  Austin Proehl

 

Thinking that's horrible makes it likely you're on some level trolling. "They essentially have nothing from their drafts on offense"? That's a laughable opinion. Jones and Dawkins both look good. Allen ... who knows, it's still incredibly early. With Teller it's still early days, but so far he's outperforming his draft slot and looking promising indeed. The rest, a 5th, a 6th and a 7th haven't showed much but that's pretty typical for guys picked that late.

 

That's a case of not putting many resources into the offense - outside of all the picks it took to bring in Allen - but decent to promising results so far with those they did choose.

 

 

 

 

Defensive picks/Signings have been brilliant by Mcd and Beane for the most part.

 

Offence hasn’t so much though.

 

Main moves:

 

Allen- Way too early

Zay- Terrible first 20 games but looks much improved 

Dawkins- Looks pretty good

Trading a 3rd for Benjamin- Awful

Signing boldin- Awful

Peterman and naming him opening day starter- Absolute disaster

Trading for Coleman- Didn’t work

Bodine: Meh

Teller- Way too early to tell although I like his potential

Foster and Mccloud- Basically non factors except for foster against the Jets

 

Defense has been great, offence is obviously very bad this year with a lot of poor personnel decisions to show.

 

Beane and Mcd still got a lot of work to do to try and evolve to a modern 2018/2019 nfl offence.

 

Defence? Hard to argue that they don’t know what they are doing on that side of the ball as it’s impressive to watch.

Edited November 24, 2018 by billsfan11

[Thurman#1]

5 hours ago, LSHMEAB said:

The only one of those draft picks that's going to matter is Allen.

 

 

They all matter.

 

But yeah, he matters the most, by far. And we simply don't yet know what he is.

[Thurman#1]

10 hours ago, billsfan11 said:

Defensive picks/Signings have been brilliant by Mcd and Beane for the most part.

 

Offence hasn’t so much though.

 

Main moves:

 

Allen- Way too early (Nah. You don't know anymore than anyone else does, but that's where he was going, within a few picks of there. He wasn't too early. The question is whether he'll be a success.)

Zay- Terrible first 20 games but looks much improved (Agreed)

Dawkins- Looks pretty good (Yup)

Trading a 3rd for Benjamin- Awful (Sure looks that way now, but we don't make the playoffs last year without Benjamin making a few great catches. I didn't much care whether we made the playoffs or not, but at least we don't have to hear the playoff drought moaning anymore. Don't know why he's not playing as well as he did earlier in his career, but he's not.)

Signing boldin- Awful (Not at all. A reasonable signing that became totally and completely unimportant when he retired. Not our fault he retired and since he did we lost absolutely nothing signing him.)

Peterman and naming him opening day starter- Absolute disaster (No. Drafting him at pick #171 where we did was very reasonable. Starting him last year to see what we had was reasonable. This year he won the competition. Reasonable decision. The bad decision there came in not immediately replacing McCarron with a vet when we traded him. They have owned up to that as a mistake.)

Trading for Coleman- Didn’t work (Agreed. No big loss.)

Bodine: Meh (Fair enough. Better than anyone we had once Wood retired, though and it's not like we paid him a ton)

Teller- Way too early to tell although I like his potential (Fair assessment)

Foster and Mccloud- Basically non factors except for foster against the Jets (Agreed, but that's what you expect from 6th and 7th round rookies)

 

Defense has been great, offence is obviously very bad this year with a lot of poor personnel decisions to show.

 

Beane and Mcd still got a lot of work to do to try and evolve to a modern 2018/2019 nfl offence.

 

Defence? Hard to argue that they don’t know what they are doing on that side of the ball as it’s impressive to watch.

 

 

The offence has been terrible but it's not so much because of poor personnel decisions. It's more because we had massive salary cap problems we had to solve and haven't committed a ton of financial or draft resources to the offence. Which is reasonable this early in a rebuild. We had too many holes to fill on this team. There were always going to be holes in this roster with their cap problems and the need to bring in a franchise QB without a high draft pick to start with.

 

On offense, they've drafted Allen, two 2nds who you agree appear to have both worked out (Dawkins and Zay) and two 5ths, a 6th and a 7th, in two years. Of course they still have a lot of holes there.

 

Croom's been a pretty decent pickup  for a UDFA. Chris Ivory is another good pickup. Isaiah McKenzie looks decent so far. The bottom line, though, is that they simply haven't committed many resources to the offence yet. There weren't enough resources to go around.

Edited November 24, 2018 by Thurman#1

[Ronin]

On 11/24/2018 at 12:57 AM, Thurman#1 said:

...

 

That's a case of not putting many resources into the offense - outside of all the picks it took to bring in Allen - but decent to promising results so far with those they did choose.....

 

 

 

 

I didn't want to quote your entire post, but generally speaking this is why I typically don't post much, because people like you leap-frog the ENTIRE core point and mindlessly go off on irrelevant non-germaine tangents.

 

Several posters do understand however, so for you, as you were.

 

But honestly, it's not confusing.

[Thurman#1]

13 hours ago, TaskersGhost said:

 

I didn't want to quote your entire post, but generally speaking this is why I typically don't post much, because people like you leap-frog the ENTIRE core point and mindlessly go off on irrelevant non-germaine tangents.

 

Several posters do understand however, so for you, as you were.

 

But honestly, it's not confusing.

 

 

Oh, you're right, it was not confusing. I read the first quarter of your post and it was so very far off-target I didn't bother to read the rest.  Once you said Zay Jones was  a "complete whiff here.  Jones is a backup caliber WR" I figured I didn't need to continue. That is such a poor evaluation. You had been far off on Milano, Phillips, Dawkins and Johnson as well.

 

Why respond to the nonsense in detail, I figured. Looking back again, I was quite right.

 

As for several posters understanding that post ... there's no real evidence of that, is there? Not one person but me responded to it. Looking back, I probably shouldn't have bothered.

Edited November 26, 2018 by Thurman#1