jrober38 Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 12 minutes ago, Real McCoy said: What are we sitting on 90 million for? If Beane and McD are smart they invest heavily into the O-line come FA on proven players. College lineman, you cannot trust them as a day1 starters anymore if drafted high. Use the draft to correct the WR and TE positions. Invest a 3rd-4th rd pick on a real QB2 with high upside. The D is fine aside from a CB#2 right now. Mcd had 2 years to play around on the D side, it's time for Offense. Use that money to extend guys next year. Give White a new deal early and hope we can get him for way less than market value. Do the same things with Dawkins and Milano during next season. Do not overpay for guys who only want to be here because we paid them a lot more than anyone else offered. That's not how you build a winning team in the NFL. 12 minutes ago, John from Riverside said: Well.....since we both agree that we probably wont get those things in free agency.....maybe we better draft them? I think paying for some veteran offensive linemen would be a smart investment. If you draft one high and bring in 2 free agents you could really help this team...... Sure. I won't fight it, I just don't understand why anyone who has options would want to play for the Bills unless we're grossly overpaying them relative to what everyone else is offering. I don't see anyone signing up to play for Sean McDermott and to play on an offense that scores 10 points a week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted November 5, 2018 Author Share Posted November 5, 2018 1 minute ago, jrober38 said: Use that money to extend guys next year. Give White a new deal early and hope we can get him for way less than market value. Do the same things with Dawkins and Milano during next season. Do not overpay for guys who only want to be here because we paid them a lot more than anyone else offered. That's not how you build a winning team in the NFL. Would this be a bad time to bring up the fact that is why we are going through a poo poo dead cap sandwich this year? This is exactly what Beane is trying to AVOID and he is cleaning up someone elses mess this year. Its like the perfect storm for our poor bills this year. Poo Poo dead cap sandwich AJM doesnt work out Having to replace 3 offensive starting linemen Not just poor choices at the vet QB position (bringing in Anderson late) but also injuries...injuries.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keukasmallies Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 What good is a top 5 pick if the people doing the picking are as inept as the current Bills administration/coaching staff appears to be? Two years ago they muffed the draft by leaving a franchise QB on the board. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaBillsFanSince1973 Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 draft picks are a shot in the dark regardless of whether a top or late pick. this team is in a mess and not even worth watching at this point. I don't believe a draft and off season will fix this as I'm beginning to have doubts in both McD and Beane being able to right this ship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Real McClappy Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 (edited) 26 minutes ago, jrober38 said: Use that money to extend guys next year. Give White a new deal early and hope we can get him for way less than market value. Do the same things with Dawkins and Milano during next season. Do not overpay for guys who only want to be here because we paid them a lot more than anyone else offered. That's not how you build a winning team in the NFL. This is where we disagree. I have zero issues if the Bills spent 30 mill bringing in 3 stud/proven O-line guys from FA. I don't want to have to think or worry about the O-line for many, many years. I much rather a team blow their wad on a top QB and O-line over anything else in today's game but that is just me. White, Milano and Dawkins are locked up for the next 2.5 years. I highly doubt Beane and McD are thinking chess or 3 moves ahead when they are in a win now checkers mode. I mean, look at half our fan base and media right now. We got that monkey off our backs last year and this coaching staff is only 50% through their visioned rebuild (all in 1.5 years) but everyone must be fired? Edited November 5, 2018 by Real McCoy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 17 minutes ago, no name said: draft picks are a shot in the dark regardless of whether a top or late pick. this team is in a mess and not even worth watching at this point. I don't believe a draft and off season will fix this as I'm beginning to have doubts in both McD and Beane being able to right this ship. ding ding ding Like when you hit gold on undrafted FA's 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted November 5, 2018 Author Share Posted November 5, 2018 19 minutes ago, no name said: draft picks are a shot in the dark regardless of whether a top or late pick. this team is in a mess and not even worth watching at this point. I don't believe a draft and off season will fix this as I'm beginning to have doubts in both McD and Beane being able to right this ship. Drafting well is really the only proven way of success in the NFL.....and this has been proven over time and time again....you do NOT biuld a team off free agents....you use them IN ADDITION TO drafting well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LABILLBACKER Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 20 hours ago, Green Lightning said: Exactly correct, and it could be a disaster if Beane panics and overpays a bunch of average guys. Draft well, make solid FA choices and don't burn up your capital in one year. It's going to take a few years to fix this mess. I know we have close to 90M to spend but I have zero faith in their ability to sign the right FA's. Their only hope is to accidentally draft some quality offensive players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ndirish1978 Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 (edited) We need a complete overhaul of the Offense. It's not gonna get done in a single offseason. LG, C, RG, RT, RB1 (Yes Shady is done), WR1, WR2. We better REALLY go after Oline & WRs in the offseason, because this franchise is going DT/DE with the first pick. To those saying Beane can't draft, I disagree. I think he's fine in the early rounds, which is par for the course. He has had one year at the helm and picked up some good young talent. I don't like his picks in the later rounds or his return on trades, but here's hoping experience fixes that for him. Edited November 5, 2018 by ndirish1978 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Real McClappy Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, John from Riverside said: Drafting well is really the only proven way of success in the NFL.....and this has been proven over time and time again....you do NOT biuld a team off free agents....you use them IN ADDITION TO drafting well Drafting Skill positions will no doubt. There is no harm in spending $ on proven Oline man in FA to keep all that matters upright and a running game churning. Edited November 5, 2018 by Real McCoy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nedboy7 Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2311552-why-nfl-teams-dont-tank-for-a-better-draft-position Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted November 5, 2018 Author Share Posted November 5, 2018 4 minutes ago, Real McCoy said: Drafting Skill positions well no doubt. There is no harm in spending $ on proven Oline man in FA to keep at that matters upright and a running game churning. No doubt this in response to the "drafting is a total crapshoot" thing..... The higher you draft....the less chance of them busting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nedboy7 Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 https://www.fieldgulls.com/2018/6/1/17415246/what-is-an-nfl-rebuild-anyway-seahawks-browns-cardinals-astros Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mannc Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Alphadawg7 said: Except it will. Rams did it. Bears did it. Now Bills will do it. Both teams took rookies they traded up for (and gave up a lot more than we did). Both had good foundations on defense and terrible personnel on offense. Both rookies suuuccckked their rookie year. Both teams heavily invested the following off season in offensive talent in FA and draft, especially FA. Both offenses and teams instantly turned around. Bills have a better D than either Rams or Bears had during their QBs rookies year. Bills are in a very good spot to make a significant turnaround in one season if they can fill out the offensive side of the ball so Allen can take a step forward. People here are nuts right now and have lost all scope of reality. Bills can become a REAL contender very quickly if we can put the right offensive pieces around Allen...assuming Allen develops as a result, which I think he is going to be good. You make some valid points regarding the Rams and Bears, but you fail to mention two important differences and one other major factor. 1. Both teams’ offenses were far more talented than the Bills’ offense when the rookie QBs were taken. 2. Both teams are more attractive FA destinations than Buffalo. 3. Most importantly, both teams’ quantum leaps (may be too strong a term for what the Bears have done) were achieved after ditching their awful, defensive-minded, dinosaur Head Coaches in favor of innovative young offensive minds. Hopefully, the Pegulas will learn a lesson from that third point. Edited November 5, 2018 by mannc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hebert19 Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 21 hours ago, John from Riverside said: I disagree but that is ok not every position needs to be replaced to turn the offense I agree. Just posted this in another thread. And have said this a few times. 10 picks and 90 million. Look at what rams did in year 2 of goff in draft and FA. DE Connor Barwin, RB Lance Dunbar, QB Aaron Murray, CB Nickell Robey-Coleman, C John Sullivan, DT Tyrunn Walker, CB Kayvon Webster, OT Andrew Whitworth, WR Robert Woods, TE Gerald Everett (R2), WR Cooper Kupp (R3), S John Johnson (R3), WR Josh Reynolds (R4) plus Sammy Watkins. they really had not much outside Donald. We have 3/4 of an elite D. We need to find a new RB...but that isnt hard. The rest is blueprint above. Sign a WR or 2. OL or 2 and surround Josh with a team and see what happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrober38 Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 14 minutes ago, mannc said: You make some valid points regarding the Rams and Bears, but you fail to mention two important differences and one other major factor. 1. Both teams’ offenses were far more talented than the Bills’ offense when the rookie QBs were taken. 2. Both teams are more attractive FA destinations than Buffalo. 3. Most importantly, both teams’ quantum leaps (may be too strong a term for what the Bears have done) were achieved after ditching their awful, defensive-minded, dinosaur Head Coaches in favor of innovative young offensive minds. Hopefully, the Pegulas will learn a lesson from that third point. Point 1 is completely untrue. Both QBs had nothing to work with as rookies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 8 minutes ago, mannc said: You make some valid points regarding the Rams and Bears, but you fail to mention two important differences and one other major factor. 1. Both teams’ offenses were far more talented than the Bills’ offense when the rookie QBs were taken. 2. Both teams are more attractive FA destinations than Buffalo. 3. Most importantly, both teams’ quantum leaps (may be too strong a term for what the Bears have done) were achieved after ditching their awful, defensive-minded, dinosaur Head Coaches in favor of innovative young offensive minds. Hopefully, the Pegulas will learn a lesson from that third point. Actually, that is not true. Rams rebuilt one of the worst OL in the NFL in that first offseason after Goffs rookie year and also completely gutted the WR group and brought in Watkins, Kupp, and Woods....pluse a 3rd TE in Everett. The only holdover was Tavon at WR but he went to 4th on depth chart and was gone this year to Dallas (where he still has done nothing, so much nothing, the Cowboys foolishly traded a first for Cooper). The only player of any significance that was kept was Gurley, and we still have McCoy. And yes big age difference, however Gurley was terrible his sophomore year on that talentless team too just like McCoy is this year. I thoroughly believe McCoy can still be a very good RB in this league in a better situation than this team is in right now. Bears also did the same thing...they got a new TE in Burton, and went out and completely scrapped the whole WR group and brought in FA's to rebuild it. Both teams offenses were in shambles prior to the rebuild. I mean Trubisky played most of last year and only threw 7 TD passes. It was a massive overhaul in both cases. Like the Rams and Bills, the only real hold over talent was at RB. Yes, both teams have some offense minded head coaches, but thats not the end all be all to having a successful offense. McD took a weak offense last year and found a way to get to a winning percentage and snap a 17 year drought. Its entirely unfair to judge McD's ability as a HC to field a good offense based on this season. The team has a major overhaul on the offensive personnel its set up for, the decisions to this point were not at all about THIS year and all about the coming years. That path is clearly highly contingent on Allen panning out and solving the QB situation, however, at this point there is no way to know if McD will succeed or fail in this area. We will really get to see if we are in the right hands and the right path next year when we see what they do to the offense this year and how well those moves work out on the field to help Allens development. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mannc Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 Just now, jrober38 said: Point 1 is completely untrue. Both QBs had nothing to work with as rookies. Neither was very good, but “not very good” is substantially better than the offense the Bills are putting out there this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheElectricCompany Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 (edited) 47 minutes ago, ndirish1978 said: We need a complete overhaul of the Offense. It's not gonna get done in a single offseason. LG, C, RG, RT, RB1 (Yes Shady is done), WR1, WR2. We better REALLY go after Oline & WRs in the offseason,. You're going to be waiting a long time for that fix to happen. There will always be roster holes. The key is to have talented players at critical positions. To me, you need a top tier QB, an elite playmaker at WR/RB, a second "really good" playmaker WR/RB/TE, and a slightly above average line. You can win with that. Edited November 5, 2018 by TheElectricCompany 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobbRiddick Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 (edited) Wait a second... there's a plan??? Was it formulated by Laurel and Hardy? Edited November 5, 2018 by RobbRiddick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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