BuffaloBillsGospel Posted November 3, 2018 Share Posted November 3, 2018 4 hours ago, HomeskillitMoorman said: I'm not talking about the record, I've never cared about that for this season. But I think that's what some people think rebuilding is, and that's all it is. There's a development process within rebuilding that the regime should be judged on as they go, they're not successfully rebuilding because we stink. What I wanted to see was organizational progress, and the #1 priority there is the development of the guy they used a lot of assets and draft capital to get...yet we're basically going to lose an entire year of legitimate development for him. How it can be excused that after 2 offseasons with this regime, knowing the franchise QB they picked would be the difference between it being a success or a failure, that we have absolutely no protection or weapons for him? I don't know that he's going to be good even with that, I don't know if he has the accuracy to be a top level QB, but we have to find out as soon as possible. And what faith, not in the McDermott/Peterman way, are we supposed to have that this regime can identify talent on the o-line when after 2 offseasons we have one passable starter? Are we supposed to be confident that they can find 4 before next season? Let alone skill players at almost every single offensive position. The progression during the rebuild is what needs to be looked at, and I think it's alarming how many holes we have after 2 offseasons. A successful rebuild in today's NFL should really happen in 3 years and we're not even close to that. The organizational planning is also very concerning, most notably with obviously how the QB situation was so badly handled this year. When you watch these games from Peterman and Anderson...this is the brainpower and evaluation abilities of Beane and McDermott at work. I don't care about being 2-6 or whatever we end up with. But to basically lose an entire precious year of development on the offensive side of the ball doesn't instill much faith in Beane and McDermott's ability to rebuild. This has been discussed so much on here, you have the "this regime sucks no matter what they do" crowd and the "this regime can do no wrong crowd", I'm stuck somewhere in the middle. It's hard to judge this group, they have brought over their 4-3 group after abandoning the 3-4 group, got rid of the players they didn't see as scheme fits or locker room leaders. You state there is only 1 passable OL (I'm assuming you mean Dawkins) and that may be true but you forget to mention 2 of our players retired, were former G Pro Bowlers available to us during FA? Did we offer them a contract? We don't know this regime can find 4 starters but how do we know they can''t? It works both ways. Again like the OL comment you made, you comment on the "QB situation so badly handled", there have been links, including ones I have posted on this very subject stating that the Bills were in negotiations with not only Bradford, McCown but also Case Keenum well the 1st 2 I know for sure but they were said to be interested in Keenum and all of them appeared to have better WR situations which is why I'm assuming they went elsewhere, we also have no way of knowing how many other QB's they reached out to, tried trading for, etc. behind closed doors. They did what most GM/HC staff does when rebuilding, they concentrated on one side of the ball heavily, being a defensive minded coach he took care of the defense first and now we have our QB and what appears to be at the very least a #2 WR in Zay Jones, Marcus Murphy has potential at RB and Croom could also be a solid TE option for us down the road. To me this entire rebuild should be almost complete after the offseason. Plenty of OL help, not much in the form of WR, maybe offer John Brown another deal? Who knows but it's hard not to get excited, plus we have 10 picks, yes there are a bunch of lower round picks also but the more chances you have the more chances of good players also. How could you not be excited about the draft? Tremaine Edmunds, Matt Milano, Josh Allen, Terron Johnson, Harrison Phillips, Zay Jones , Trey White those are all very good building blocks for the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Straight Hucklebuck Posted November 3, 2018 Share Posted November 3, 2018 6 hours ago, HomeskillitMoorman said: How it can be excused that after 2 offseasons with this regime, knowing the franchise QB they picked would be the difference between it being a success or a failure, that we have absolutely no protection or weapons ... It’s the mindset of McDermott. You can study tape long enough, go to meetings on time, correct mistakes, and out culture the league. He talked about it again this week, starting with habits and winning mindsets as a way to jump start the offense. I think its as simple as he thinks Kelvin Benjamin is good enough if he studies the tape hard enough. He doesn’t look at it like the fans do. This is not a talent problem, this is learning how to win and tipping our hat to the opponent. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenhigh Posted November 3, 2018 Share Posted November 3, 2018 4 hours ago, BillsVet said: How two guys can enter the season with a such a distinct lack of talent on offense is startling. Pot meet kettle. Better than the hole where most of YOUR air is coming out of! But I digress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsVet Posted November 3, 2018 Share Posted November 3, 2018 44 minutes ago, Tenhigh said: Better than the hole where most of YOUR air is coming out of! But I digress. Millennial right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted November 3, 2018 Share Posted November 3, 2018 (edited) 7 hours ago, John from Riverside said: .you have to get worse in order to get better because your going with a rookie qb Like the Seahawks in 2012? Or Washington in 2012? Or the Falcons in 2008? 7 hours ago, billsfan_34 said: Many, including me, havent given up on Allen. Take a qb rd 2-4 and hope he develops. Maybe he develops into a 2, maybe he pushes to start, maybe he stinks! This is a QB league so you must invest in them and be able to identify which ones have a chance. Amen. Why put all your eggs in one basket? I'd also try to sign a competent FA QB. Edited November 3, 2018 by reddogblitz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victory Formation Posted November 3, 2018 Share Posted November 3, 2018 8 hours ago, John from Riverside said: Progression is almost never always trending up.......for us it is has been and is going to be all over the place year 1 - make the playoffs......who does that in a rebiuld year 2 - this year.....more in line with what a rebiuld looks like year 3 - who knows? There simply is not enough data to even know yet. I know this. If we are not aggressively improving this offense in the offseason I will be off this current bills management train. The thing I found alarming is McD hired Dennison and Daboll, both have been awful, you begin to ask yourself if he understands offense. With that said, I don't think you can fire him yet. If you fire him now you didn't give him a fair shake. I think you give him 1 more offseason, if we come out soft next year fire him midseason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellcamino Posted November 3, 2018 Share Posted November 3, 2018 (edited) 9 hours ago, HomeskillitMoorman said: Was part of step one to get the QB and provide no protection around him for his first year of development? It was either a failure of talent evaluation or being inept in organizational planning. I personally just don't think either bodes well. Does everyone forget that we lost both Incognito and Wood unexpectedly? I don't think having to replace those two were a part of their plan last offseason. I believe those two situations are the biggest culprit of why our offense is this sad. If we had 3/5 OL playing well instead of 1/5, the other 2/5 would probably look better as well. Edited November 3, 2018 by Hellcamino Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted November 3, 2018 Share Posted November 3, 2018 6 hours ago, BillsVet said: Millennial right? Probably. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan1959 Posted November 3, 2018 Share Posted November 3, 2018 7 hours ago, Straight Hucklebuck said: It’s the mindset of McDermott. You can study tape long enough, go to meetings on time, correct mistakes, and out culture the league. He talked about it again this week, starting with habits and winning mindsets as a way to jump start the offense. I think its as simple as he thinks Kelvin Benjamin is good enough if he studies the tape hard enough. He doesn’t look at it like the fans do. This is not a talent problem, this is learning how to win and tipping our hat to the opponent. Thank God 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nucci Posted November 3, 2018 Share Posted November 3, 2018 4 hours ago, Hellcamino said: Does everyone forget that we lost both Incognito and Wood unexpectedly? I don't think having to replace those two were a part of their plan last offseason. I believe those two situations are the biggest culprit of why our offense is this sad. If we had 3/5 OL playing well instead of 1/5, the other 2/5 would probably look better as well. If we still had Cordy Glenn 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoTier Posted November 3, 2018 Share Posted November 3, 2018 16 hours ago, HomeskillitMoorman said: I'm not talking about the record, I've never cared about that for this season. But I think that's what some people think rebuilding is, and that's all it is. There's a development process within rebuilding that the regime should be judged on as they go, they're not successfully rebuilding because we stink. What I wanted to see was organizational progress, and the #1 priority there is the development of the guy they used a lot of assets and draft capital to get...yet we're basically going to lose an entire year of legitimate development for him. How it can be excused that after 2 offseasons with this regime, knowing the franchise QB they picked would be the difference between it being a success or a failure, that we have absolutely no protection or weapons for him? I don't know that he's going to be good even with that, I don't know if he has the accuracy to be a top level QB, but we have to find out as soon as possible. And what faith, not in the McDermott/Peterman way, are we supposed to have that this regime can identify talent on the o-line when after 2 offseasons we have one passable starter? Are we supposed to be confident that they can find 4 before next season? Let alone skill players at almost every single offensive position. The progression during the rebuild is what needs to be looked at, and I think it's alarming how many holes we have after 2 offseasons. A successful rebuild in today's NFL should really happen in 3 years and we're not even close to that. The organizational planning is also very concerning, most notably with obviously how the QB situation was so badly handled this year. When you watch these games from Peterman and Anderson...this is the brainpower and evaluation abilities of Beane and McDermott at work. I don't care about being 2-6 or whatever we end up with. But to basically lose an entire precious year of development on the offensive side of the ball doesn't instill much faith in Beane and McDermott's ability to rebuild. Thank you for an excellent, well thought out post. Unfortunately, you'll probably get all kinds of criticism for daring to point out the McDermott/Beane regime's failures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Deek Posted November 3, 2018 Share Posted November 3, 2018 The 2018 Bills are NOT in a rebuild! They’re still in full on demolition mode. Saying you’re rebuilding just because you drafted a QB is nonsense. Other than Josh Allen, who’s currently not even playing, can someone tell me which offensive player is part of this mythical rebuild? Answer...nobody! The Bills are literally starting completely over again on Offense in 2019 with no foundation whatsoever. They’ve got ten positions to fill in free agency and the draft. Good luck! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDhill2 Posted November 3, 2018 Share Posted November 3, 2018 The rebuild started with making the play-offs for the first time in 17 years. They are shedding 50 million in dead money cap space this year. Which is pretty uncommon. That's a lot of dead money I believe they do have an eye for talent... Milano, White, Edmunds, Johnson. Granted, these are all defensive players. It looks like the plan was to start to build the defense first and get your QB. I really think that this is the part of the season they planned on playing Allen anyhow. In regards to Peterman.... I do not like him and I do think it has been a bad decision to keep him and trade McCarron. The things they see in practice do not translate in games for any sustainable amount of time. It does bother me that they keep him around and I don't really care about his character. It does seem like he is a great guy but he lacks some tools. In regards to Anderson... I do not even consider this applicable. They were hard pressed to find a back up with experience to mentor Josh Allen at that time. That is why he came here. Unfortunately, he had to start. I heard that they tried to bring him in during the summer but he turned them down. It's painful to watch Peterman and not fun. Anderson seemed a lot more competent. The offensive line has been much better and they lost two pro bowlers unexpectedly. Hard to fill those shoes in one draft or off season. The trouble with the run game is that the QB play has been bad lately and it's difficult for WR's to get separation. We can always upgrade on the o-line though. I don't believe that means that the Beane lacks an eye for talent in regards to that. I do get concerned about WR. It doesn't look like stud WR's were a focal point in Carolina. It would be nice if they could draft some studs in that area or FA. Allen needs some time... his accuracy is pretty much where all the highly drafted rookie QB's are. He has quite a few drops too. I believe they thought it was going to take them 2-3 years to clean up the salary cap mess and get them in the right place while getting major building blocks for the future. It's a tough year and not a lot of fun as a fan, So, I understand the frustration. I feel like they are pretty much where they thought they would be. My two biggest things have this year have been Peterman decision and Marcus Murphy not being active for the Texans instead of Ray Ray McCloud. That totally cost us the game. That would have been a great win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptnCoke11 Posted November 3, 2018 Share Posted November 3, 2018 9 hours ago, BillsVet said: Millennial right? I doubt it.. They don’t know words such as digress Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigK14094 Posted November 3, 2018 Share Posted November 3, 2018 16 hours ago, dneveu said: I'm in on another QB. I am not in on another 1st round QB. Yes, just not another noddle arm like Peterman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helpmenow Posted November 3, 2018 Share Posted November 3, 2018 14 hours ago, Success said: This is a rebuild. All we’re debating is style points. Rebuilding for 17 plus years 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigantall Posted November 3, 2018 Share Posted November 3, 2018 16 hours ago, John from Riverside said: This offensive line is in fact playing bad.....they cannot block for the run to save their lives....they cannot get out in front of screens......they are inconsistant in their pass protection They are playing bad Yeah i agree not sure what that guy has been watching all season long he must be the offensive line coach trying to save his job Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bangarang Posted November 3, 2018 Share Posted November 3, 2018 42 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said: The 2018 Bills are NOT in a rebuild! They’re still in full on demolition mode. Saying you’re rebuilding just because you drafted a QB is nonsense. Other than Josh Allen, who’s currently not even playing, can someone tell me which offensive player is part of this mythical rebuild? Answer...nobody! The Bills are literally starting completely over again on Offense in 2019 with no foundation whatsoever. They’ve got ten positions to fill in free agency and the draft. Good luck! So.......they’re rebuilding? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenhigh Posted November 3, 2018 Share Posted November 3, 2018 9 hours ago, BillsVet said: Millennial right? Not at all. Why do you ask? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Deek Posted November 3, 2018 Share Posted November 3, 2018 12 minutes ago, Bangarang said: So.......they’re rebuilding? That’s my point. They haven’t even started rebuilding. They’re still demolishing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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