SinceThe70s Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 4 hours ago, TheElectricCompany said: For better or worse, we need to give them 3 years minimum. I'm all for the continuity argument and in particular the 3 year minimum. I thought the same about Rex after year one but by the end of year two it was obvious to me that it was time to move on and I'm glad we did so I don't see 3 year minimum as a hard and fast rule. I think the "fire everyone now" crew have some legit concerns/complaints, but breaking the drought, the play of the defense, my belief that the QB is still a complete unknown and where we're at wrt to draft picks and cap space is enough for me to give McBeane more time. If at this time next year the offense is as inept as it is right now, I would support pulling the plug mid-season and starting over, but that sets us back another 1-3 years and I hope it doesn't come to that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fadingpain Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 4 hours ago, Straight Hucklebuck said: My gut tells me none of this is going to work. McDermott is Dick Jauron 2.0. Beane hasn't hit on anything he’s done. And Allen is going to bust. He was a marginal talent at Wyoming and he can’t read a defense or throw accurately in the NFL. I weigh this with becoming the Cleveland Browns firing GMs and Coaches every 2 years on average since 2000. Well said. What is really frustrating right now is that Allen is hurt, and he could miss the rest of the season. The longer it takes to declare him a bust, the longer McBeane likely get, and the further our success is set back. They will go when Allen is declared obviously not the answer, but I doubt they will go before that. Unfortunately, we are now looking at McBeane leaving at the earliest at the end of next season, 2019. Then new regime comes in, they modify the roster to their liking, meaning we lose a year immediately, try to get a QB in here, etc... First realistic season at being good as of right now is going to be 2021 IMO. A lot of this relates to McBeane's total inability to function on the offense side of the ball, and their going all in, with no serviceable interim plan, with Allen. He is at best a long shot project with a lot of upside potential, but a high likelihood of failing. For me, he is the kind of guy you take in the 2nd or 3rd round while you already have a serviceable QB, like Tyrod! You bring Allen along slowly and see if he can do it. You should be able to see what he has without mortgaging entire seasons to do so. But that is not what these guys have done. They have pushed all--and I mean all---the chips into the center of the table and bet the house on Josh Allen being good. That was a really, really stupid move, and they'll pay for it with their jobs. 4 hours ago, BillsEnthusiast said: What damage could they do "more than they have" I'll hang up and listen Wow you know that after 5 games??? Impressive. Oh and Beane has hit on a lot, you just dont want to give him credit because that would mess up your little crusade And you and everyone else here knows that Nate Peterman is also not the answer after the same number of games! Impressive! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheElectricCompany Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 (edited) 28 minutes ago, SinceThe70s said: I'm all for the continuity argument and in particular the 3 year minimum. I thought the same about Rex after year one but by the end of year two it was obvious to me that it was time to move on and I'm glad we did so I don't see 3 year minimum as a hard and fast rule. I think the "fire everyone now" crew have some legit concerns/complaints, but breaking the drought, the play of the defense, my belief that the QB is still a complete unknown and where we're at wrt to draft picks and cap space is enough for me to give McBeane more time. If at this time next year the offense is as inept as it is right now, I would support pulling the plug mid-season and starting over, but that sets us back another 1-3 years and I hope it doesn't come to that. Rex was a known commodity that had been trending in the wrong direction for years. I certainly have very reasonable concerns with the direction Beane and Mcdermott are taking the team, but they need a reasonable amount of time to execute their plan. I've said it dozens of times, it's all about building a consistent championship contender. We've got a defense that is trending toward that goal, but the offense needs to follow suit. They are historically bad right now, and it needs a major overhaul fast. Edited October 31, 2018 by TheElectricCompany Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrober38 Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 24 minutes ago, Fadingpain said: Well said. What is really frustrating right now is that Allen is hurt, and he could miss the rest of the season. The longer it takes to declare him a bust, the longer McBeane likely get, and the further our success is set back. They will go when Allen is declared obviously not the answer, but I doubt they will go before that. Unfortunately, we are now looking at McBeane leaving at the earliest at the end of next season, 2019. Then new regime comes in, they modify the roster to their liking, meaning we lose a year immediately, try to get a QB in here, etc... First realistic season at being good as of right now is going to be 2021 IMO. A lot of this relates to McBeane's total inability to function on the offense side of the ball, and their going all in, with no serviceable interim plan, with Allen. He is at best a long shot project with a lot of upside potential, but a high likelihood of failing. For me, he is the kind of guy you take in the 2nd or 3rd round while you already have a serviceable QB, like Tyrod! You bring Allen along slowly and see if he can do it. You should be able to see what he has without mortgaging entire seasons to do so. But that is not what these guys have done. They have pushed all--and I mean all---the chips into the center of the table and bet the house on Josh Allen being good. That was a really, really stupid move, and they'll pay for it with their jobs. Very good post. They went all in on a losing hand. The decimated the roster to acquire draft picks that they in turn traded to move up for Allen and Edmunds. Edmunds looks solid, but Allen is just a lottery ticket who probably won't work out. We went all in on two young players, neglecting the rest of the offense and failing to put any additional NFL talent on an offense that only averaged 18 PPG last season. Expectedly things got a lot worse with inferior QB play, and the result is a historically bad offense the NFL hasn't seen in about 20 years. The Bills biggest mistake was not drafting a QB last year. They could have had either Mahomes or Watson, kept some of veterans and probably be competing for their second straight playoff birth. Instead they opted to completely mismanage the QB position and field one of the least competitive offenses any of us have ever seen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roundybout Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 34 minutes ago, Fadingpain said: Well said. What is really frustrating right now is that Allen is hurt, and he could miss the rest of the season. The longer it takes to declare him a bust, the longer McBeane likely get, and the further our success is set back. They will go when Allen is declared obviously not the answer, but I doubt they will go before that. Unfortunately, we are now looking at McBeane leaving at the earliest at the end of next season, 2019. Then new regime comes in, they modify the roster to their liking, meaning we lose a year immediately, try to get a QB in here, etc... First realistic season at being good as of right now is going to be 2021 IMO. A lot of this relates to McBeane's total inability to function on the offense side of the ball, and their going all in, with no serviceable interim plan, with Allen. He is at best a long shot project with a lot of upside potential, but a high likelihood of failing. For me, he is the kind of guy you take in the 2nd or 3rd round while you already have a serviceable QB, like Tyrod! You bring Allen along slowly and see if he can do it. You should be able to see what he has without mortgaging entire seasons to do so. But that is not what these guys have done. They have pushed all--and I mean all---the chips into the center of the table and bet the house on Josh Allen being good. That was a really, really stupid move, and they'll pay for it with their jobs. And you and everyone else here knows that Nate Peterman is also not the answer after the same number of games! Impressive! If you can't see the difference between Allen and Pete, you've got issues that cannot be solved. Or have a painfully obvious agenda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SinceThe70s Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 (edited) 31 minutes ago, TheElectricCompany said: Rex was a known commodity that had been trending in the wrong direction for years. I certainly have very reasonable concerns with the direction Beane and Mcdermott are taking the team, but they need a reasonable amount of time to execute their plan. I've said it dozens of times, it's all about building a consistent championship contender. We've got a defense that is trending toward that goal, but the offense needs to follow suit. They are historically bad right now, and it needs a major overhaul fast. We're on the same page. My point was that I could be willing the plug on them mid-season next year if the historic ineptitude on offense persists. People question what the 'process' is, but maybe it's as simple as a systematic roster re-build: Rebuild the secondary (check mark...including losing EJ Gaines) Retool the LBers (Edmunds and Milano look like good additions) Fortify the DL Take a shot at a QB...and pray (regardless who you pick, trade or sign) Next up would be the offense, continued prayers sessions for the QB and re-filling all of the above due to free agency, retirement and attrition. Edited October 31, 2018 by SinceThe70s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrober38 Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 3 hours ago, PetermanThrew5Picks said: McBeane's alright. Offensively behind the curve, great motivator, great D caller. Look at the GM that's giving him nothing to help his weaknesses. Sean McVay doesn't know crap about defense. Doesn't care. Good thing he had a GM that recognized that. But he's a Petermoron. That's justification for firing I'll give you that. Not that I would but I understand. His faith in him is a level of stupidity I rarely see. What if Whaley just loooooved his baby UDFA Tuel. He was smarter than that. AND TUEL IS SO MUCH BETTER Beane wasn't the GM when we picked Peterman... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick the Greek Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 The man broke the curse. He deserves at LEAST 2 more years. He is the MAN! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubs Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 Oh goodie, another “mcbeane” thread. INteresting stuff! 5 hours ago, Nester said: I wish we could fire fans who need instant gratification. A rebuild takes more than 2 years.... Get some patience or maybe go cheer for the Pats. Two Bills Drive definitely needs a rebuild. I could suggest more than a few posters I’d like to see traded to other team fan boards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bing Bong Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 32 minutes ago, TheElectricCompany said: Rex was a known commodity that had been trending in the wrong direction for years. I certainly have very reasonable concerns with the direction Beane and Mcdermott are taking the team, but they need a reasonable amount of time to execute their plan. I've said it dozens of times, it's all about building a consistent championship contender. We've got a defense that is trending toward that goal, but the offense needs to follow suit. They are historically bad right now, and it needs a major overhaul fast. I think I figured it out: The key is getting out of rock bottom once you get there.. because rebuilds follow a.. marginal cost curve, so you gotta really turn your team to another level of awful and hope that momentum keeps going and shoots you up.. Did I get it right? See the TRICK is to get bad so fast you have the momentum to shoot up, and hope you don't just tear down talent for no reason and get stuck at the bottom when you have a few bad drafts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 5 hours ago, Straight Hucklebuck said: My gut tells me none of this is going to work. McDermott is Dick Jauron 2.0. Beane hasn't hit on anything he’s done. And Allen is going to bust. He was a marginal talent at Wyoming and he can’t read a defense or throw accurately in the NFL. I weigh this with becoming the Cleveland Browns firing GMs and Coaches every 2 years on average since 2000. Oh you mean other than every defensive draft pick? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bing Bong Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 11 minutes ago, jrober38 said: Beane wasn't the GM when we picked Peterman... He (McD) is a Petermoron. Pardon my ambiguous pronoun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floydboy12 Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 Sometimes you just know pretty quickly that people are in over their head. Other times you can see the small steps in the right direction and know that a solid foundation is being built. Does anybody see that here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 (edited) Don't feed the trolls. Already being discussed in multiple other threads and this one adds nothing whatsoever. Nothing. Edited October 31, 2018 by Thurman#1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 2 minutes ago, Floydboy12 said: Sometimes you just know pretty quickly that people are in over their head. Other times you can see the small steps in the right direction and know that a solid foundation is being built. Does anybody see that here? Is this a trick question? Do I see....which? I think you're seeing incremental progress, and that’s what I see. This actually feels like a coherent, if painfully slow, actual plan. I just never imagined an offense THIS bad. Carry on with the plan, folks. Time will tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsfanAZ Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 5 hours ago, Straight Hucklebuck said: Allen was far from a can’t miss, productive college player with manageable flaws coming out of school. Plenty of analysts flagged him. I don’t know for sure. But what I’ve seen so far does not lend itself to him getting it to me. I could be wrong, but Allen was a polarizing pick taken on the basis of potential, not real body of work. Did you even pay attention to any of the QB's drafted this year? None of them were "cant miss" prospects. None of them were supposed to start from Day 1. Most of the draft gurus said all of them need time and experience before they will become decent starters. Stop talking about Allen's accuracy....it isnt any worse than other rookie QB's right now. All of the rookie QB's have shown flashes at times and were horrible at times. Allen is the only rookie QB not to throw a pick six......yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PittsforDave Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 Unfortunately. We have to. Our Bills are in a sad state. Another year with bean could get even sadder. There has to be silver lining, somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Barbarian Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 10 hours ago, RosenNOTchosen1 said: I really just don't trust these guys. If we give them another year they can really do damage and set this team so far back it won't even be funny. I'm at the point where I say fire them now and bring in a new GM and coach for the 2019 season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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