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Sammy Watkins Admits to an "Ego Problem" When He First Came into the League

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Just now, teef said:

i don't know what being a chiefs fan has to do with anything.  after the end of this year, i'm willing to bet that most fans will wonder why he's earning what he's earning.  he isn't the reason for their success...at all.  

 

i know you laid you what you would have done, and i get it, but i think people are kidding themselves if they don't think sammy wanted to test fa at that point in his career.  signing him isn't the slam dunk people are making it out to be.  it's a possibility for sure, but i think unlikely.  besides...if sammy was making a  huge salary form the bills, and producing like he is now, can you imagine the fan outrage.  the same posters criticizing the bills for not paying watkins would be the ones screaming from the mountain tops about how the bills are overspending on the wrong players.  his salary doesn't match is production.

 

i have no idea why you keep bringing up wrs that are far better than sammy.  you know why guys like obj are still on their teams at large paydays?  they're productive and worth it.  sammy hasn't shown to be.  sammy wasn't let go because of his attitude.  if he showed that he was really a top wr, that doesn't matter.  sammy isn't productive enough.

And you keep ignoring OBJ & Evans who remain on the same team & both signed long-term contracts.  

 

Very simply if Watkins played well in 2017 and with as I said increased targets & responsibilities he would have gotten the same.

 

And everyone is saying that if you pay top dollar you get the FA.  

 

Also newflash.......  Every NFL team makes money..... 

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2 minutes ago, Jpsredemption said:

Quit worrying about Sammy. He's a good receiver on a good team. We are a trash team with no WRs.

good talk.

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2 minutes ago, Jpsredemption said:

Quit worrying about Sammy. He's a good receiver on a good team. We are a trash team with no WRs.

But but but, the Bills have a culture and a process!!!!!!!

 

I forgot to add the Bills are unwatchable 

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Just now, Billsfan1972 said:

But but but, the Bills have a culture and a process!!!!!!!

 

I forgot to add the Bills are unwatchable 

Yep. Culture has equaled = 11-14 and how many blowout losses again?

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1 minute ago, Billsfan1972 said:

And you keep ignoring OBJ & Evans who remain on the same team & both signed long-term contracts.  

 

Very simply if Watkins played well in 2017 and with as I said increased targets & responsibilities he would have gotten the same.

 

And everyone is saying that if you pay top dollar you get the FA.  

 

Also newflash.......  Every NFL team makes money..... 

i specifically addressed them.  i'm not sure if your acting like this to be difficult or you really don't understand.  evans and obj are far better and more productive than watkins.  by far.  they've had multiple +1000 yard seasons with double digit tds.  sammy has never done that.  not once.  don't even mention them in the same sentence as watkins.  it's a joke.

3 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

But but but, the Bills have a culture and a process!!!!!!!

 

I forgot to add the Bills are unwatchable 

 

1 minute ago, Jpsredemption said:

Yep. Culture has equaled = 11-14 and how many blowout losses again?

and since neither of you can put an adult argument together, it degrades into this. 

 

the bills wrs are bad.  the staff didn't do anything to improve the situation.  still doesn't mean they should have spent 16 mill a year on sammy.

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11 minutes ago, teef said:

i specifically addressed them.  i'm not sure if your acting like this to be difficult or you really don't understand.  evans and obj are far better and more productive than watkins.  by far.  they've had multiple +1000 yard seasons with double digit tds.  sammy has never done that.  not once.  don't even mention them in the same sentence as watkins.  it's a joke.

 

and since neither of you can put an adult argument together, it degrades into this. 

 

the bills wrs are bad.  the staff didn't do anything to improve the situation.  still doesn't mean they should have spent 16 mill a year on sammy.

Really??!!??  Since you seem to know me & my posts, you will too know I went into 2017 knowing nothing about McD, the process, culture......  I watch football (a lot) and don't get into the details, but certainly understand the game.  I was excited and thought a healthy Watkins and commitment to get him the ball and good communication with TT and let's go,  Instead they tear down the offense in the pre-season and sucked the joy out of it (you will see numerous posts).   Sammy did not produce as expected in LA, but they won and the Bills Offense was a hot mess and no wrs performed.  The Offense was ATROCIOUS.

 

I can promise you that if targeted 150 times he would have had 1200+ yards minimum and the team would have been much much better on offense.  There is no argument. 

 

I will too continue to compare him to Evans & OBJ because he was drafted higher and just does not get the targets or is thrown to as often.  Defenses respect him and $16,000,000 says otherwise.   

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30 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Really??!!??  Since you seem to know me & my posts, you will too know I went into 2017 knowing nothing about McD, the process, culture......  I watch football (a lot) and don't get into the details, but certainly understand the game.  I was excited and thought a healthy Watkins and commitment to get him the ball and good communication with TT and let's go,  Instead they tear down the offense in the pre-season and sucked the joy out of it (you will see numerous posts).   Sammy did not produce as expected in LA, but they won and the Bills Offense was a hot mess and no wrs performed.  The Offense was ATROCIOUS.

 

I can promise you that if targeted 150 times he would have had 1200+ yards minimum and the team would have been much much better on offense.  There is no argument. 

 

I will too continue to compare him to Evans & OBJ because he was drafted higher and just does not get the targets or is thrown to as often.  Defenses respect him and $16,000,000 says otherwise.   

don't get me wrong...i don't disagree with you concerning the state of the bills or how the offense is producing.  it's absolutely terrible.  my point is that overpaying watkins would in no way have helped that.    you can promise me all you want about sammy's possible production, but no you can't guarantee me anything, and there is an argument to be had.  he's on his third team.  his last two qbs have been goff and mahomes...two qbs who are producing big time.  sammy has had every opportunity to put up big numbers, and he can't.  i'm waiting for it, but the reality is that it just hasn't happened.  you have trouble grasping this.  you literally tried to use the excuse that mcvay was coaching goff not to throw to watkins, to make a reason as to why his production was so average.  why?  you just don't live in reality.  sammy should be putting up insane numbers this year, and he's the 3 wr on the chiefs.  like the rams, they'll realize he isn't worth the contract.

Edited by teef

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15 minutes ago, teef said:

don't get me wrong...i don't disagree with you concerning the state of the bills or how the offense is producing.  it's absolutely terrible.  my point is that overpaying watkins would in no way have helped that.    you can promise me all you want about sammy's possible production, but no you can't guarantee me anything, and there is an argument to be had.  he's on his third team.  his last two qbs have been goff and mahomes...two qbs who are producing big time.  sammy has had every opportunity to put up big numbers, and he can't.  i'm waiting for it, but the reality is that it just hasn't happened.  you have trouble grasping this.  you literally tried to use the excuse that mcvay was coaching goff not to throw to watkins, to make a reason as to why his production was so average.  why?  you just don't live in reality.  sammy should be putting up insane numbers this year, and he's the 3 wr on the chiefs.  like the rams, they'll realize he isn't worth the contract.

Again they did not have to overpay him in 2017, he was UNDER CONTRACT.  Produce and they would have like OBJ & Evans are.

 

Stars and difference makers are OVERPAID.

 

Again simple question, would you rather have had Watkins in 2017 or not?  I don't care one bit about trading for draft picks I want to see the team on the field. 

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16 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Again they did not have to overpay him in 2017, he was UNDER CONTRACT.  Produce and they would have like OBJ & Evans are.

 

Stars and difference makers are OVERPAID.

 

Again simple question, would you rather have had Watkins in 2017 or not?  I don't care one bit about trading for draft picks I want to see the team on the field. 

sammy is not a star or a difference maker.  he's on his third team and hasn't shown to be either of those things.  that's the problem.

 

i would have much rather to have sammy on the team than not.  i think he's a good wr.  the problem is fa.  do you really think it was in sammy's best interest not to test it?  why would he just give whatever buffalo gave him?  his numbers likely would have been pedestrian as usual if he stayed.  why you and other think he and tt would have had a monstrous 2017 season is beyond me.  neither have shown to be productive in the nfl, yet magically the stars would have aligned and records would have been broken...right?!

 

sammy isn't a difference maker.  that's the problem.  if he was, either the bills or the rams would have kept him.  that was my point about he rams letting him go.  at some point you have to look at reality, and not possible scenarios that may or may not happen.

Edited by teef

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31 minutes ago, teef said:

sammy is not a star or a difference maker.  he's on his third team and hasn't shown to be either of those things.  that's the problem.

 

i would have much rather to have sammy on the team than not.  i think he's a good wr.  the problem is fa.  do you really think it was in sammy's best interest not to test it?  why would he just give whatever buffalo gave him?  his numbers likely would have been pedestrian as usual if he stayed.  why you and other think he and tt would have had a monstrous 2017 season is beyond me.  neither have shown to be productive in the nfl, yet magically the stars would have aligned and records would have been broken...right?!

 

sammy isn't a difference maker.  that's the problem.  if he was, either the bills or the rams would have kept him.  that was my point about he rams letting him go.  at some point you have to look at reality, and not possible scenarios that may or may not happen.

Again the point is simply they have let it play out and this culture/process crap is bullcrap.....  

 

I want to be entertained and waiting year after year is unacceptable.  

 

Add to that the offensive sid has been so neglected.......  

 

Sure Sammy may too have put up pedestrian #'s in 2017, however I would have liked to have seen them as a member of the Bills.

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Again the point is simply they have let it play out and this culture/process crap is bullcrap.....  

 

I want to be entertained and waiting year after year is unacceptable.  

 

Add to that the offensive sid has been so neglected.......  

 

Sure Sammy may too have put up pedestrian #'s in 2017, however I would have liked to have seen them as a member of the Bills.

 

 

fair enough.  i'm bored out of my mind too.  i really haven't watched the last two games, and just don't have any interest in this year other than to see if allen actually develops.  hopefully this is temporary, and to be honest, i'm very curious as to how this staff is going to try and bail themselves out of this mess.

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So we have common ground......  DOn't disagree with you, I just hated the way it was done and with no plan.

 

Now if they traded Watkins before the 2017 draft for a #1, yep still would have been upset, but that players would have been on the field in 2017.

 

I argued (and not incorrectly) that the offense was hijacked & undermined......  Remember the pre-season game with Watkins & TT......  He threw him passes and targets in their game and I thought the light went on.  Didn't know they were showcasing him......

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36 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

So we have common ground......  DOn't disagree with you, I just hated the way it was done and with no plan.

 

Now if they traded Watkins before the 2017 draft for a #1, yep still would have been upset, but that players would have been on the field in 2017.

 

I argued (and not incorrectly) that the offense was hijacked & undermined......  Remember the pre-season game with Watkins & TT......  He threw him passes and targets in their game and I thought the light went on.  Didn't know they were showcasing him......

there's absolutely common ground.  i think we're all frustrated how this has been approached.  i think the only difference a lot of poster have is whether or not there is a plan.  my only hope is that there is a plan, and that this is a low point.  i can't imagine that this is their final plan for the team, so we need to give the staff at least this off season to see how it plays out.  if this blow up had happened last year, i think we all could have come to terms with it.  it is extremely hard to go to the playoffs one year and have a disastrous season the next.  

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On 11/7/2018 at 8:50 AM, SWATeam said:

We'll see how it works out, the Rams clearly don't overvalue draft picks.  I understand going all-in while having a cheap QB, but they better win in all in the next couple years or they are going to be in some trouble, IMO.

Oh noes!

 

Thank God we have a regime that understands you build for 2030 unlike those reckless fools in LA who may be in for a rude awakening in 2 years if they ONLY win 12+games a year and don't win a Superbowl.

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I had to go back and doublecheck that pre-season game in 2017 vs. Minn.......  The 2-3 Drives TT had he threw to Watkins 5 times (4 catches) and they did exactly what I was clamoring and excited looking forward to during the season, a concerted effort to get the ball to your #1 receiver......  3 days later (or was it 2) he was traded.

 

What is also amazing is seeing how much Peterman played in the 2017 pre-season and he beat out TJ Yates as the back-up.  Obviously he was annointed when he was drafted.....

 

Thanks McD........   

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7 hours ago, teef said:

yes it was.  i remember a post where thuman1 broke to down for you how bad it actually was, and you completely ignored it.  you just claim it wasn't bad...how so?

you keep mentioning the bills, but what about the rams.  why would that team trade a second for him, only to let him go and use a first for another wr that they gave a similar salary too?  they obviously didn't think enough of sammy either.  why is that?

How did the Bills sign Jordan Poyer and Hyde if their cap was such a problem? 

 

 

 

Edited by ScottLaw
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4 hours ago, LSHMEAB said:

Oh noes!

 

Thank God we have a regime that understands you build for 2030 unlike those reckless fools in LA who may be in for a rude awakening in 2 years if they ONLY win 12+games a year and don't win a Superbowl.

2030 is going to be so awesome!

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59 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

How did the Bills sign Jordan Poyer and Hyde if their cap was such a problem? 

 

 

 

BOOOOOOOOOM!

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1 hour ago, ScottLaw said:

How did the Bills sign Jordan Poyer and Hyde if their cap was such a problem? 

 

 

 

Keep drinking the Kool aid those defending McD.  Doublespeak and talking out of both sides of your mouth is a long lost art.

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On 11/7/2018 at 8:00 AM, C.Biscuit97 said:

Rams points/ game pre Sammy: 14

points/game with Sammy: 29.9

 

chiefs points/ game pre Sammy: 25.9

points/ game with Sammy: 36.3

 

bills points/ game with Sammy in his last year here:  24.9

bills points/ game after Sammy left: 18.9

 

but I’m sure it’s one big coincidence.  It’s amazing how simple people try to make football.  I guess Julio Jones sucked until last week until he scored his first td of the season.  It’s this type of simple thinking that had the Bills think a garbage slow receiver like Jordan Matthews could replace Sammy because he had similar stats!

 

Ok, I'm all for using numbers to backup an argument, but that's the stupidest "correlation equals causation" example I've ever seen.

 

We'd have to be idiots to ignore:

Rams: 

 

1. Significant leap in Jared Goff's play his sophomore year +

2. Lost Jeff Fisher +

3. Gained Sean McVay +

4. Got Cooper Kupp (who was far more impactful than Watkins) +

 

Chiefs:

 

1. Patrick Mahomes instead of Alex Smith (He's on pace to throw for 5,155 yards...compared to Smith's best year EVER 4,042 last season) +

.

.

.

.

.

2. Andy Reid having someone capable of running the offense he's always wanted to run +

3. Duo of Hunt & Hill being even better their 2nd & 3rd years +

4. Patrick Mahomes....again, this matters the most.

 

 

Also, let's make it more clear how goofy your example is. What if I say:

Sammy Pre-Rams: 53.75 yards per game in 2016

Sammy with Rams: 39.53 yards per game in 2017

 

Whelp, guess the 2016 Bills > 2017 Rams, and Tyrod Taylor > Jared Goff

 

Sammy in 2015: 80.53 yards per game

Sammy in 2018: 57.22 yards per game

 

Again, 2015 Bills > 2018 Chiefs, and Tyrod Taylor > Patrick Mahomes

 

Not trying to be rude, but your numbers don't at all reflect some hidden Watkins-effect. He does not account for an extra TD+FG per game for the Chiefs this year, nor did he account for an extra 2 TD's per game for the Rams in 2017. I'm not even suggesting you mean he literally is responsible for those points, only that his existence on those teams did not open up an additional 10-14 points of offense every single game directly or indirectly.

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14 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

How did the Bills sign Jordan Poyer and Hyde if their cap was such a problem? 

 

 

 

 

Uh, Poyer's contract was for 4 years and only $13 million (so $3.25 million a year), and Hyde's contract was 5 years for $30 million, with his 2017 salary only being $2.3 million. He got a $1.6 million signing bonus, but we were able to sign him for cheap up front by back loading the contract. Those aren't monster contracts. The league average for FS (which includes rookies) is $2.8 million a year, and $2.6 million for SS. The average salary of the top 30 safeties in the league is $7.5 million.

The cap was a huge issue going into the 2017 offseason. Remember, they had only 49 players under contract heading into it, with 34 players becoming free agents (23 unrestricted). They only had $2.8 million to roll over towards the next season (compare that to this year, they'll roll over an additional $10 million into 2019), and only were left with about $24 million to spend on 41 players going into the draft & training camp. 

To think having only $24 million to sign quality free agents, pay rookies, and make deals with wasn't a problem is crazy, especially when the Bills were getting crap production out of all that money. And because of those poor contracts & paying crappy players, we were backed into a situation where we had to just bite the bullet & destroy our cap this year with dead money. 

The Bills are dead last in spending for ALL TEAMS on active salaries this year with only $125 million. Yet due to poor cap management in the past, the Bills entered the season with only $8.5 million in cap space! Thankfully next year will be a completely different story, with upwards of $90 million in cap space available, but that's because the cap WAS a problem in the past, but management decided to just take the L this year in hopes of fixing it in the long run.

Edited by BigDingus

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3 hours ago, BigDingus said:

 

Uh, Poyer's contract was for 4 years and only $13 million (so $3.25 million a year), and Hyde's contract was 5 years for $30 million, with his 2017 salary only being $2.3 million. He got a $1.6 million signing bonus, but we were able to sign him for cheap up front by back loading the contract. Those aren't monster contracts. The league average for FS (which includes rookies) is $2.8 million a year, and $2.6 million for SS. The average salary of the top 30 safeties in the league is $7.5 million.

The cap was a huge issue going into the 2017 offseason. Remember, they had only 49 players under contract heading into it, with 34 players becoming free agents (23 unrestricted). They only had $2.8 million to roll over towards the next season (compare that to this year, they'll roll over an additional $10 million into 2019), and only were left with about $24 million to spend on 41 players going into the draft & training camp. 

To think having only $24 million to sign quality free agents, pay rookies, and make deals with wasn't a problem is crazy, especially when the Bills were getting crap production out of all that money. And because of those poor contracts & paying crappy players, we were backed into a situation where we had to just bite the bullet & destroy our cap this year with dead money. 

The Bills are dead last in spending for ALL TEAMS on active salaries this year with only $125 million. Yet due to poor cap management in the past, the Bills entered the season with only $8.5 million in cap space! Thankfully next year will be a completely different story, with upwards of $90 million in cap space available, but that's because the cap WAS a problem in the past, but management decided to just take the L this year in hopes of fixing it in the long run.

They were certainly tight against the cap entering the 2017 offseason, but cap hell? Not even close. Outside of arguably Dareus(who was obviously lazy at times but still a better player than Star at his best, whos cap hit is close to what MD's was)what bad contracts are you referring to? 

 

I think a lot of fans point all along was the team didn't need to go out and get a whole bunch of quality FA's that offseason. The roster was solid and COACHING is what held them back the previous two seasons. How does the cap entering 2017 prevent them from picking up Watkins 5th year option two years away? 

 

Had they picked up Watkins option, not traded players like Dareus, Glenn, Darby, and not signed guys like Star, Murphy, and Vontae Davis they are still WAY under the cap this offseason and fine entering last offseason. 

 

I can't remember all the FAs entering that 2017 offseason, but IIRC just about all of them were backups/easily replaceable FAs.(Zach Brown being the stand out and LB in today's NFL is a somewhat easy and cheap fix.) Alexander was another, but again, they got him back for a team friendly deal. 

 

 

The point being they took a quality roster that simply needed better coaching and turned it upside down. The reason many fans are questioning "the process." The "Cap Hell" excuse is just that. An excuse. 

 

They simply didn't want to work with the player's(a lot of good, young talented ones) provided to them. 

Edited by ScottLaw

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22 hours ago, teef said:

sammy is not a star or a difference maker.  he's on his third team and hasn't shown to be either of those things.  that's the problem.

 

i would have much rather to have sammy on the team than not.  i think he's a good wr.  the problem is fa.  do you really think it was in sammy's best interest not to test it?  why would he just give whatever buffalo gave him?  his numbers likely would have been pedestrian as usual if he stayed.  why you and other think he and tt would have had a monstrous 2017 season is beyond me.  neither have shown to be productive in the nfl, yet magically the stars would have aligned and records would have been broken...right?!

 

sammy isn't a difference maker.  that's the problem.  if he was, either the bills or the rams would have kept him.  that was my point about he rams letting him go.  at some point you have to look at reality, and not possible scenarios that may or may not happen.

Sammy has never lived up to his potential, due in large part to his being unable to consistently stay on the field. A great performance will be followed up by a few weeks of sitting out with various ailments, then getting back up to speed, show a flash here or there, and so on and so forth. This week no different from wash, rinse, repeat.

https://heavy.com/sports/2018/11/sammy-watkins-fantasy-how-concerning-injury/

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