Phil The Thrill Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 1 minute ago, blacklabel said: Game is moving pretty fast for all the rookie QBs at this point. Also, all of them are under 60% for completion percentage. Right....the difference is the other 3 were accurate QB’s in college. Allen never was. Also the offensive production on the other 3 teams is much better than the Bills. This is my concern. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tatonka68 Posted October 30, 2018 Author Share Posted October 30, 2018 22 minutes ago, Phil The Thrill said: My only concern is his accuracy. He’s never been an accurate QB in college or the NFL. Also the game seemed to be moved pretty fast for him. Does Allen's numbers look much different than Petermen or Anderson? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil The Thrill Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 Just now, Tatonka68 said: Does Allen's numbers look much different than Petermen or Anderson? Not really....the difference is Peterman is among consideration for worst QB of all time and Anderson was out of the NFL 2 weeks ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mabden Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 17 minutes ago, MAJBobby said: Thats not what this regime is about. It is about Run the ball. Play defense. When you do not have any alternatives, i.e. viable QB, WRs, OL, an over-invested defense, and talented RBs, this is what you do... Today! Over 50mil in dead cap money, relying on a few players to "step up" (Clay, KB, Shady) results in what you are seeing. The FO did not draft a QB with Allen's talent/skills to play a run heavy offense. Once Allen gets the hang of playing NFL football and they build an offense around him, then it will be a different story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reed83HOF Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 27 minutes ago, MAJBobby said: Thats not what this regime is about. It is about Run the ball. Play defense. Those are the players we have. I'm willing to give them a shot to see how to offense changes once we start adding players to this side of the ball... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billsguy Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 14 minutes ago, billieve420 said: Start with the offensive line and work your way out. Find some WRs who can get open in space and make it easier on the QB. Absolutely TRUE! I would argue that building should start in the trenches for both offense and defense. A top quality offensive line can make an average running back or QB look very good to great. A bad or mediocre offensive line can make a great QB or RB look average to poor. My frustration and disappointment with the Bills is that they believe the secret to offensive success is to give up multiple draft choices to trade up so that they can draft the QB and even WR positions. Drew Bledsoe, EJ Manuel, Sammy Watkins, and Josh Rosen immediately come to mind. The Bills have chosen to put their shiny new toy (Josh Allen) behind an offensive line that gets QB's injured. The Bills management seems to believe the opposite. The results speak for themselves. Brandon Beane and McDermott have assembled one of the worst offenses in modern NFL history. Why is Nathan Peterman in the NFL? The WR's as a group are the worst in the NFL. The QB's get pummeled behind a patchwork line of mediocre quality. Mystery solved! Who will hold the coach and GM responsible? Anyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blacklabel Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 3 minutes ago, Phil The Thrill said: Right....the difference is the other 3 were accurate QB’s in college. Allen never was. Also the offensive production on the other 3 teams is much better than the Bills. This is my concern. The other three also had the benefit of playing with 2, 3, and 4 star recruits where as Allen didn't. The kid has never been surrounded by solid talent at the skill positions. Hopefully the Bills will be able to add some in the off-season and that will make a difference in Allen's playing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CuddyDark Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 11 minutes ago, Tatonka68 said: Mobile lineman who can can pull, block in space and run screens. a running back who excels in screens, traps plays and sweeps. wide receivers with speed to take advantage of Allen's arm. An old fashion TE who can block and has sure hands. The 90's Bills were built around Kelly, The Broncos around Elway, The Dolphins around Marino. Allen is just a raw kid with lots of talent, give him a chance. Allen, Petermen and Anderson numbers look pretty much the same. WHY? The talent around them. Some of it is coaching. For example they should never throw out routes with Peterman. They should play him like we played Fitz. His offense should be all crossing routes, posts and hooks. But they have an offense and they run it no matter who's under center. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 I agree about building around Allen. As for the O line, there is a disconnect right now. They have O linemen that seem more effective as maulers, and they have a RB in Shady that dances. Either they need to get back to the blocking schemes they used last year that worked for Shady or go with anther RB like Ivory as the primary guy. Last night I was yelling at the screen when they ran those Wildcat sweeps too many times. We don't have a line that can do that routinely, and after the surprise factor wore off it was a waste of plays. Daboll messed up their. Next year, they have to spend resources on the line. Football is still won or lost in the trenches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CuddyDark Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 7 minutes ago, mabden said: When you do not have any alternatives, i.e. viable QB, WRs, OL, an over-invested defense, and talented RBs, this is what you do... Today! Over 50mil in dead cap money, relying on a few players to "step up" (Clay, KB, Shady) results in what you are seeing. The FO did not draft a QB with Allen's talent/skills to play a run heavy offense. Once Allen gets the hang of playing NFL football and they build an offense around him, then it will be a different story. Yeah actually they did. They want to build a run heavy team like the Panthers. That's why you take Allen, he can get out of trouble. They're tying to build a power west coast team. That's why McDermott went after McCoy to be his OC. He wants the offense Shula's kid ran in Carolina. That's why they keep brining in full backs. Allen fits a run heavy team in that system. Look at the QBs in that system, Farve, Cam, Rodgers, Montana, Steve Young, all mobile. Escaping and delivering the option pass to the full back is a staple. The big blocking/possession receiver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 13 minutes ago, mabden said: When you do not have any alternatives, i.e. viable QB, WRs, OL, an over-invested defense, and talented RBs, this is what you do... Today! Over 50mil in dead cap money, relying on a few players to "step up" (Clay, KB, Shady) results in what you are seeing. The FO did not draft a QB with Allen's talent/skills to play a run heavy offense. Once Allen gets the hang of playing NFL football and they build an offense around him, then it will be a different story. Sure they will. So do they get none of the blame for having no viable WR,OL or QB? Do they not get blame for the Dead cap they created? 13 minutes ago, Reed83HOF said: Those are the players we have. I'm willing to give them a shot to see how to offense changes once we start adding players to this side of the ball... Thats how they built this team. Isnt it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Barbarian Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 51 minutes ago, Tatonka68 said: Josh Allen is the centerpiece of this team like it or not. The Bills need to build around Allen's strengths. Mobility and arm strength are his his best attributes. The Bills need to design plays that best fit his talent and he is comfortable with. They need to draft mobile offensive linemen that can pull and are good at screen blocking. They need receivers who can be deep threats whom Allen can get the ball to. They need sure handed Tight end who can block and a north/South running back who can catch.. A good offensive coordinator does not make a QB fit their offense, you make the offensive fit your QB. The offensive should run sweeps, screens and roll out passes so a defense cannot target one spot on the field. Allen can roll left and fire the ball to the right for big plays. They will but it's not happening in season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reed83HOF Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 2 minutes ago, MAJBobby said: Thats how they built this team. Isnt it. Not really no. The offense has not really been a focus of anything since McD came here. Yeah we have taken a couple O-linemen, Zay and Allen. Last years moves with Matthews and Gaines was to get picks and clear cap space. KB came as we started a push for the playoffs, if that push didn't happen, chances are we wouldn't have traded for him. That move was a reaction to make sure that the locker room was not lost. The plan all along has been a slow style tear down and the defense has been the focus of FA and the drafts to a degree. Our offensive players are generally still from the Marrone/Rex years or small role players brought in - that's it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mabden Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 Just now, MAJBobby said: Sure they will. So do they get none of the blame for having no viable WR,OL or QB? Do they not get blame for the Dead cap they created? They are partially to blame for the Offense. Not getting a decent backup QB, buying into Peterson are definitely bad decisions by the coach and GM. Not upgrading the WRs and OL is a cap space outcome. I would have kept Robert Woods and EJ Gaines, but... Incognito going nuts and Woods retiring were unexpected. The cap space is a condition of overpaying for players from the previous FO and this FO wanting to clean house of non-productive players and build through the draft. Unfortunately, players like KB have not panned out and building through the draft takes time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ctk232 Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 53 minutes ago, billieve420 said: Start with the offensive line and work your way out. Find some WRs who can get open in space and make it easier on the QB. ALWAYS start with the OL. Makes the floor for every other position that much higher/more average compared to the league overall. I don't agree with McD on everything, but 100% agree that if you win the line of scrimmage you win the game. If you don't have solid lines/line play on both sides of the ball to win you the LOS, you likely can't count on the rest of the team perform well enough each game to win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 6 minutes ago, mabden said: They are partially to blame for the Offense. Not getting a decent backup QB, buying into Peterson are definitely bad decisions by the coach and GM. Not upgrading the WRs and OL is a cap space outcome. I would have kept Robert Woods and EJ Gaines, but... Incognito going nuts and Woods retiring were unexpected. The cap space is a condition of overpaying for players from the previous FO and this FO wanting to clean house of non-productive players and build through the draft. Unfortunately, players like KB have not panned out and building through the draft takes time. Actually its not. But hey if that is what lets you sleep at night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mabden Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 14 minutes ago, CuddyDark said: Yeah actually they did. They want to build a run heavy team like the Panthers. That's why you take Allen, he can get out of trouble. They're tying to build a power west coast team. That's why McDermott went after McCoy to be his OC. He wants the offense Shula's kid ran in Carolina. That's why they keep brining in full backs. Allen fits a run heavy team in that system. Look at the QBs in that system, Farve, Cam, Rodgers, Montana, Steve Young, all mobile. Escaping and delivering the option pass to the full back is a staple. The big blocking/possession receiver. Ok I see your points. Maybe I want to believe this regime wants to join the rest of the NFL. Then why did they hire Diabold? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 1 hour ago, MAJBobby said: Thats not what this regime is about. It is about Run the ball. Play defense. I dont necessarily think that is what they want to do....I think they are playing to the players they have I think Deboll would actually like to pass more....just doesnt have the horses for it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman1876 Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 The defense has a good solid foundation. If Allen develops into something then so does the offense. There are so many people on this board calling for people to be fired and to start the rebuild over, its unbelievable. It is and has been all about Allen, the coach and the team go with his development. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mabden Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 3 minutes ago, MAJBobby said: Actually its not. But hey if that is what lets you sleep at night. If you have disagreements, let's hear them. I take no offense. I have more important things keeping me up at night. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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