Mr. WEO Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 1 minute ago, Shotgunner said: Rookie stats are old news, right now Benjamin can't run or catch. As a WR I say that makes him not qualified. So if he went back to Carolina and Newton, he would not be qualified to be on their roster either? And which qualified WRs out there would be racking up the yards on this offense right now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FistingBot Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 4 minutes ago, John from Riverside said: They dont have the talent on offense to run the most basic plays.....and the defenses are too good and sniff them out....we literallly have NO deep speed to keep teams honest..... This is not Debolls fault...and if it was he would have been fired by now simple as that 2 minutes ago, billsfan11 said: I gave 5 examples where talent has literally nothing to do with his piss poor decisions and play calling To chime in... We have one of the best running backs in the game yet he barely touches the ball, and many players who have had at least moderate success elsewhere (Benjamin, Clay, etc.). We ran the Wildcat 10 times yesterday! 10! The first time or two it was fine. Then every time afterward it got blown up. ...and we kept f'ing running it! We have a massive 6'5 receiver who lacks deep speed. Do we ever throw the slant to him (or any other receiver)? Ever? No, we send him deep even though he doesn't have the speed to beat average cornerbacks. We ran a flee flicker with the tight end as the intended target. Who does that? How often do we run screen passes? ...IMHO, an offense is all about creating mismatches and we simply don't do that. Again, no one is saying we have Pats-level talent. But, we've scored two touchdowns in 5 weeks and are on pace to be one of the worst offenses in modern history. Talent aside, this is a lousy scheme. I don't expect miracle with this roster, but a touchdown every now and again isn't a ridiculous ask in a league where scoring is way up. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBillsGospel Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 2 hours ago, JPP said: Actually he was on the golf course playing in an actual tournament.....its too bad for him if his arm is actually broken from the last play last night...... Is that a true story? I thought I read he was on vacation with his family, my mistake. Any word on his arm? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloHokie13 Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 The stat they showed last night says it all. 0 TDs on the last 50 drives that started in our own territory. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 41 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said: Any thoughts that the improved passing yardage the last two games is encouraging should be snuffed out by the following observations: * Anderson is good at padding his stats by going to the check down receiver almost immediately. Against both Indy & NE he was constantly throwing 6 yard passes on 3rd and 10. The defense will give you those every time. Ditto for his ability to exploit a teams prevent defense when they're ahead by multiple TD's. Now to be clear I don't blame Anderson in the least for this. When he signed on it wasn't to actually have to QB this offense. But it does indicate that we should be careful when looking at the raw passing yardage numbers. The only numbers that really matter are zero TD's the last 2 games and last night we never made it into the Pats red zone. * We should also keep in mind that the offensive struggles the last 2 weeks have come against the #21 (Indy) and #25 (NE) rated defenses. Indy was 25th when they played them. It's amazing what happens to a D's ranking after they play the Bills. NE's will go up too in the DVOA rankings. The Bills offense gooses the stats of every defense they play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heavy Kevi Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 11 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said: So if he went back to Carolina and Newton, he would not be qualified to be on their roster either? And which qualified WRs out there would be racking up the yards on this offense right now? Cool man, just keep changing your argument. First, top 40 meant qualified, then it was rookie stats, and now it's hypothetical situations. As I stated, in my opinion Benjamin is not a qualified receiver. Get over trying to parse out every word and understand the real argument. I didn't say there were WRs out there that are better, didn't criticize anyone for not bringing people in. My argument is that it is not Dabolls fault the offense sucks but since you have no real argument for that you choose to argue about our differing definitions of "qualified" WRs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 1 minute ago, Shotgunner said: Cool man, just keep changing your argument. First, top 40 meant qualified, then it was rookie stats, and now it's hypothetical situations. As I stated, in my opinion Benjamin is not a qualified receiver. Get over trying to parse out every word and understand the real argument. I didn't say there were WRs out there that are better, didn't criticize anyone for not bringing people in. My argument is that it is not Dabolls fault the offense sucks but since you have no real argument for that you choose to argue about our differing definitions of "qualified" WRs. I'm only trying to parse one word. I listed several qualifications (draft pedigree, proven success for KB). You've listed zero disqualifications. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heavy Kevi Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 Just now, Mr. WEO said: I'm only trying to parse one word. I listed several qualifications (draft pedigree, proven success for KB). You've listed zero disqualifications. Disqualifications (as previously stated): Can't run or catch. Game. Set. Match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 18 minutes ago, October 1918 said: To chime in... We have one of the best running backs in the game yet he barely touches the ball, and many players who have had at least moderate success elsewhere (Benjamin, Clay, etc.). We ran the Wildcat 10 times yesterday! 10! The first time or two it was fine. Then every time afterward it got blown up. ...and we kept f'ing running it! We have a massive 6'5 receiver who lacks deep speed. Do we ever throw the slant to him (or any other receiver)? Ever? No, we send him deep even though he doesn't have the speed to beat average cornerbacks. We ran a flee flicker with the tight end as the intended target. Who does that? How often do we run screen passes? ...IMHO, an offense is all about creating mismatches and we simply don't do that. Again, no one is saying we have Pats-level talent. But, we've scored two touchdowns in 5 weeks and are on pace to be one of the worst offenses in modern history. Talent aside, this is a lousy scheme. I don't expect miracle with this roster, but a touchdown every now and again isn't a ridiculous ask in a league where scoring is way up. When I watch McCoy go down because he ran into the ass of his offensive linemen that was being pushed back into him.....its hard to take this seriously ppl just dont like that we are losing...I get it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPP Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 16 minutes ago, BuffaloBillsGospel said: Is that a true story? I thought I read he was on vacation with his family, my mistake. Any word on his arm? I caught that little tidbit from one of the games commentators last night....No word yet on his condtion tho.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 1 minute ago, Shotgunner said: Disqualifications (as previously stated): Can't run or catch. Game. Set. Match. dang, have I been tsunami'd....again?? You think he became disqualified as soon as he got to the Bills? Because he looks like he was qualified in Carolina with Newton throwing the ball. Just curious as to what you think is the etiology of his disqualification. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That_Guy Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 6 hours ago, Sweats said: Shady was doing his best impression of Reggie Bush all night. Ivory was actually doing good at running up the gut and moving the pile and yet, we were trying to fool the Pats with our wildcat? Aye Carumba I was thinking the same thing about McCoy except I was comparing him to CJ Spiller. Always bouncing and trying to run around the lines side-to-side and getting nowhere or pushed back. It was refreshing to see Ivory come in and go North/South. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jrb1979 Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 2 hours ago, Wayne Arnold said: Anyone blaming Daboll for this mess has his head so far up his ass. Sorry don't buy it. Arizona has a worse o-line and manages to put up points. I have never seen a fan base believe that the coach can do no wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Arnold Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 5 minutes ago, Jrb1979 said: Sorry don't buy it. Arizona has a worse o-line and manages to put up points. I have never seen a fan base believe that the coach can do no wrong. Arizona hasn’t had Nate Peterman and Derek Anderson behind center. They also have a future HOF at WR. There is some space between believing a “coach can do no wrong” and not thinking he should be fired after 1/2 of a season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ctk232 Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 11 hours ago, Skins Malone said: Well I think this offense sucks as a whole. I'm willing to give daboll more time. Theres very little talent here and you have a guy who was playing golf two weeks ago as your QB. I think the better question is why we have DA playing QB? The QB situation here at the moment is about as bad as it can be. Not excusing the guy but this whole offense sucks. I don't consider the announcers last night as experts of the game in any regard despite having actual NFL experience. However, even from their varied observation throughout the night, the things I heard most: Witten had a lot to say about our offense, but his primary complaint was receivers not getting separation at the top of their routes. He continued to say that even the throws we do complete go for little to no YAC as a result as well, and almost every throw is contested. This is not a corps to inspire hope in anyone. Along these lines, Book made a comment about how KB was one popeyes biscuit away from being a TE - as off-putting as that might sound, IT'S TRUE. KB is sorely misused as WR1, which he most certainly is not. He isn't some unknown talent waiting to be put in the right situation, but he would be a mismatch in an offense with an actual WR1, even 2, and using KB as TE1/2 in certain sets. He's quick for a TE and can make contested catches - Witten made the comment he thrives on the push-off as he isn't quick and his game is much more like that of a TE. All in all, whether KB stays or goes, they need to re-evaluate where they are using their players. While our OL barely suffices as serviceable, the QB situation is deplorable. Allen is honestly our best chance at winning games this year as he has room to grow. DA hit his ceiling in 2012, or whatever year he made the pro bowl. Since then he may have seen more NFL games, but easily more so from the sidelines. Adding the fact he was literally on a golf course three weeks ago, to expect anything more than him lasting this long before getting hurt at 35 yr old was and is absurd. What's crazy is that despite all of our offensive needs in watching this team, it's evident that a true back up QB is needed, someone beyond Anderson who they more so brought in to coach. While Cleveland is much more the s***show right now for a rookie QB, I don't like who we've surrounded Allen with from a coaching stand point. Culley, Daboll, and Anderson are not the group I'd like to have bringing this kid up, but we need to bring an actual player QB to backup Allen, not Anderson. Novel aside - to your point malone, I'm still willing to give Daboll next season to show us more. But the more I watch this offense, receivers not getting separation on their routes is mostly attributable to the receivers as a corps and the way they are being used. KB is clearly not a WR1 and should be used more like a TE - we don't have anyone else to fill a WR1 role so Daboll can't do much with that. Zay finally learned to catch the ball, but has always thrived in a slot role. We have no one else to fill the WR2 role so Daboll can't do much there. But what he can do is scheme route concepts and combinations to free up players, and utilize the RB in space more. Our OL vastly limits what we can do with our routes in terms of giving them time to form, but I'd still like to see more from Daboll at least attempting to scheme for what ability we do have in the right ways. So while I'm still willing to give him the year, there's only so much you can excuse from the OC with an offense like this - the bottom line is that while our talent is questionable, these are still NFL players, and to not score in a league where offenses have pretty much a red carpet to the endzone on most drives is suspect for an NFL OC. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihilarian Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 2 hours ago, CuddyDark said: You have to understand this is the team McDermott wants to build. If he gets it right, we will be the Seahawks, not the Rams or Pats or Chiefs. He's not trying to build that team. He wants the team from last year but with more talent. He wants to run the QB. He want to run trick plays. He wants to win because his defense killed the other team. From what I can see he's trying to build the Eagles with McNabb or the Cam led Panthers. If we score a lot of points it will be because of short fields and turnovers. The defense is still missing 3 or 4 players. They need a boundary corner, a long elite right end, a young Kyle Williams and a 3 down strong side who is interchangeable with Milano in coverage. On offense they'll probably go LT and C before receiver. They don't want a showboat receiver. They want receivers who can make tough catches. The big play they want in the passing game will need to be made by the tight end. It can work or you can become the Bengals where it's just not good enough in the modern NFL to play this kind of football, especially in the playoffs. I don't agree with the bolded at all. The Bills had this last year with Tyrod and Dennison and McD got rid of both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skins Malone Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 56 minutes ago, ctk232 said: I don't consider the announcers last night as experts of the game in any regard despite having actual NFL experience. However, even from their varied observation throughout the night, the things I heard most: Witten had a lot to say about our offense, but his primary complaint was receivers not getting separation at the top of their routes. He continued to say that even the throws we do complete go for little to no YAC as a result as well, and almost every throw is contested. This is not a corps to inspire hope in anyone. Along these lines, Book made a comment about how KB was one popeyes biscuit away from being a TE - as off-putting as that might sound, IT'S TRUE. KB is sorely misused as WR1, which he most certainly is not. He isn't some unknown talent waiting to be put in the right situation, but he would be a mismatch in an offense with an actual WR1, even 2, and using KB as TE1/2 in certain sets. He's quick for a TE and can make contested catches - Witten made the comment he thrives on the push-off as he isn't quick and his game is much more like that of a TE. All in all, whether KB stays or goes, they need to re-evaluate where they are using their players. While our OL barely suffices as serviceable, the QB situation is deplorable. Allen is honestly our best chance at winning games this year as he has room to grow. DA hit his ceiling in 2012, or whatever year he made the pro bowl. Since then he may have seen more NFL games, but easily more so from the sidelines. Adding the fact he was literally on a golf course three weeks ago, to expect anything more than him lasting this long before getting hurt at 35 yr old was and is absurd. What's crazy is that despite all of our offensive needs in watching this team, it's evident that a true back up QB is needed, someone beyond Anderson who they more so brought in to coach. While Cleveland is much more the s***show right now for a rookie QB, I don't like who we've surrounded Allen with from a coaching stand point. Culley, Daboll, and Anderson are not the group I'd like to have bringing this kid up, but we need to bring an actual player QB to backup Allen, not Anderson. Novel aside - to your point malone, I'm still willing to give Daboll next season to show us more. But the more I watch this offense, receivers not getting separation on their routes is mostly attributable to the receivers as a corps and the way they are being used. KB is clearly not a WR1 and should be used more like a TE - we don't have anyone else to fill a WR1 role so Daboll can't do much with that. Zay finally learned to catch the ball, but has always thrived in a slot role. We have no one else to fill the WR2 role so Daboll can't do much there. But what he can do is scheme route concepts and combinations to free up players, and utilize the RB in space more. Our OL vastly limits what we can do with our routes in terms of giving them time to form, but I'd still like to see more from Daboll at least attempting to scheme for what ability we do have in the right ways. So while I'm still willing to give him the year, there's only so much you can excuse from the OC with an offense like this - the bottom line is that while our talent is questionable, these are still NFL players, and to not score in a league where offenses have pretty much a red carpet to the endzone on most drives is suspect for an NFL OC. Very good post. I agree with your points. I think people need to realize just because you are willing to give the guy more time doesnt mean you dont have doubts or even serious doubts. Scheme is very important..and I'm sure there is room for improvement but at some point you need talent. You need talent to build a scheme around. And the Bill's just dont have it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trogdor Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 5 hours ago, Bfanlc said: Without Brady those nobodies dont do squat. Again put NP in their scheme and see what happens. Again, there have been times without Brady and they still perform at a high level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 you can't just say "pretend Brady hasn't been there all these years" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CuddyDark Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 2 hours ago, Nihilarian said: I don't agree with the bolded at all. The Bills had this last year with Tyrod and Dennison and McD got rid of both. And replaced both with more talented versions of the same QB and OC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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