THE ROCKPILE REVIEW - So Funny I Could Cry

[Figster]

18 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

I agree.  And Phillips, probably Milano, Dawkins and probably Miller.   And they're a little older, but Poyer and Hyde play really well together back there and should be good for 3-4 more years.   It's not like there's no talent on the team.   Not enough, but they have guys to build on. 

 

As I said, it's the coaching that worries me. 

Myself personally Shaw, the D has played fairly well , but in this league without an Offense that can control the clock to keep the oppositions high powered O off the field or match the intensity/ points scored its all for not. QB's like A Luck are going to put you into a shoot out.

 

On the other hand when you look at the cards Daboll has been dealt at the QP position in Peterman, the rookie Allen, now a rusty, perhaps over the hill veteran in Anderson is easy to understand why the O has struggled as a unit in my humble opinion.

 

The Bills GM worries me.

[Fadingpain]

This season is over and we've all known that since Week 1 or 2.

 

What bothered me about Sunday's game against the Colts was just how boring and devoid of entertaining plays it was. 

 

If it's going to be a horrible season, at least give us some highlight stuff here and there to enjoy.

 

But Sunday was just "Why am I watching this?" type stuff.

 

 

[Figster]

6 minutes ago, Fadingpain said:

This season is over and we've all known that since Week 1 or 2.

 

What bothered me about Sunday's game against the Colts was just how boring and devoid of entertaining plays it was. 

 

If it's going to be a horrible season, at least give us some highlight stuff here and there to enjoy.

 

But Sunday was just "Why am I watching this?" type stuff.

 

 

The best case scenario is for Anderson to play well enough for Josh Allen to learn something. I do think the break is well timed and will only add to Allen's fire and deep desire to succeed in the NFL. I love this kid.

 

From an entertainment standpoint without Allen, I understand.

[Shaw66]

39 minutes ago, Fadingpain said:

This season is over and we've all known that since Week 1 or 2.

 

What bothered me about Sunday's game against the Colts was just how boring and devoid of entertaining plays it was. 

 

If it's going to be a horrible season, at least give us some highlight stuff here and there to enjoy.

 

But Sunday was just "Why am I watching this?" type stuff.

 

 

Replying to you and Figster, I agree with you and disagree with him on this point.   

 

It seems to me that the Bills are playing an unimaginative offense, among the least imaginative in the league.   Now, they're doing that probably because they either want to dumb it down for their inexperienced QBs or they don't think they have enough talent to open up the offense.   Either way, I think that's a mistake, because by playing unimaginative offense you more or less guarantee that the opponent is going to stop you, week after week, so all you're doing is reducing the likelihood that you'll win a game.  And winning, after all, is the object. 

 

But beyond that, if you're playing an unimaginative offense, you aren't giving your young QBs (and your other young players) a true NFL experience.   You're asking them to practice playing a game that is different from the game that you presumptively will be asking them to play next year.   By doing that, your players are losing an opportunity to play the way you'll want and need them to play.   

 

Give your wideouts an opportunity to run screens and rubs and double moves, because that's what receivers on good teams do.  Give your QBs the opportunity to learn how to throw those passes, which require a quick release, accuracy and timing.   

 

Run some serious misdirection plays.  Run those tricky double screens where it looks like you're screening to one side but you're actually going the other way.   

 

Do all that stuff and more.   

 

The offense that Bills are playing has virtually no chance of succeeding, unless the defense holds the opponent to single digits.  Play an offense that may blow up in your face, but it at least has a chance to score 20 a game or more.   And in the meantime you'll be giving your young players an opportunity to learn.   

 

This is a man's game, and asking your players to take baby steps ain't gonna cut it.  

[SoTier]

42 minutes ago, Fadingpain said:

This season is over and we've all known that since Week 1 or 2.

 

What bothered me about Sunday's game against the Colts was just how boring and devoid of entertaining plays it was. 

 

If it's going to be a horrible season, at least give us some highlight stuff here and there to enjoy.

 

But Sunday was just "Why am I watching this?" type stuff.

 

 

 

• The Jets have a rookie QB and 3 wins, but at least they are in most of their games. 
• The Browns have a rookie QB and 2 wins plus a tie, but they've been in all their games until the very end except for the stinker they put up against the Chargers. 
• The Bills have a rookie QB and 2 wins, but they've been blown out of 3 games, and lost badly to the Chargers even though the Bolts took mercy on them and sat most of their starters in the second half of that game.

I watch the beginning of Bills games but that usually doesn't last long.  Instead I switch over to Sunday Ticket and watch entertaining games.

[LSHMEAB]

2 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

I share your feelings on a lot of this, except I don't expect him to get fired anytime this season.  I expect he'll be the coach on opening day, 2019, and he'll get all of 2019 unless the Bills look as bad next season as they have several games this season. 

 

Why?   A couple of reasons.  First, I think Beane feels gratitude and loyalty to McDermott for having gotten him the GM job.   Second, I think McBeane really do believe that they have a system that, in time, will work.   Third, I don't think the Pegulas want a coaching merry-go-round.   They bought McB's kool-aid, and they're going to savor every last drop before they head off in another direction.   I've always thought McB have three full years, minimum, and I still think that.  

I highly doubt Beane would ever have the opportunity to fire McDermott. 

 

 

[US Egg]

 McDermott does the same song and dance after losses, be it the all too often blow out or offensive ineptitude ones.

 

It has become predictable and almost laughable.

 

He's a big part of the problem.

 

 

 

 

[Soda Popinski]

13 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

Yeah, I remember the play but not the look.   

 

Again, I don't know what his assignment is on running plays, but it seems that a lot of times when I watched him he gets caught in the wash.   I'd think that with his speed, given how much misdirection everyone runs, the Bills would benefit by having lay back a bit and not commit so quickly to his gap.   That way he would keep his ability to track plays laterally, which is where his strength is.   The problem with that, I suppose, is that if he lays back and the running back hits his gap, the back is going to get 2-3 yards, and occasionally more, than if Edmunds had attacked the gap.  The answer probably is that Edmunds has to learn to read the play quickly and to commit to the gap or not, depending on his read.  

McBeane have been absolutely clear they are not building in free agency.  Beane said that the fans shouldn't expect a big spending spree in 2019.  He said they may get a guy or two to plug gaps, but their focus is going to remain on the draft.   That's what makes we agree with the speculation that the Bills might unload Shady and Benjamin for picks.   

 

Essentially what they've said, in so many words, is that they're building like the Packers have done it for years.   A couple of years ago the Packers had a roster where NO player had ever been on the 53-man roster of any other team.  They were essentially all drafted or undrafted rookies, with a few guys plucked from other practice squads.   It sounds like that's what they want to do. 

 

And that's why I don't think anyone's getting fired anytime soon.   They've explained all of this to the Pegulas, and everything we've heard and seen suggests the Pegulas are on board.   

 

Bottom line: the 2019 roster will be the first where McBeane will have THEIR young guys on the team, so you shouldn't expect a Rams-type turn-around.

I understand the idea, build through the draft but with 10 draft picks if we play 10 rookies next year we'll be 4-12 again.   Good teams don't play double digit rookies. They can package picks and get more high rounders.   But they are going to have to spend some money on free agents to fill positions. 

[Figster]

34 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

Replying to you and Figster, I agree with you and disagree with him on this point.   

 

It seems to me that the Bills are playing an unimaginative offense, among the least imaginative in the league.   Now, they're doing that probably because they either want to dumb it down for their inexperienced QBs or they don't think they have enough talent to open up the offense.   Either way, I think that's a mistake, because by playing unimaginative offense you more or less guarantee that the opponent is going to stop you, week after week, so all you're doing is reducing the likelihood that you'll win a game.  And winning, after all, is the object. 

 

But beyond that, if you're playing an unimaginative offense, you aren't giving your young QBs (and your other young players) a true NFL experience.   You're asking them to practice playing a game that is different from the game that you presumptively will be asking them to play next year.   By doing that, your players are losing an opportunity to play the way you'll want and need them to play.   

 

Give your wideouts an opportunity to run screens and rubs and double moves, because that's what receivers on good teams do.  Give your QBs the opportunity to learn how to throw those passes, which require a quick release, accuracy and timing.   

 

Run some serious misdirection plays.  Run those tricky double screens where it looks like you're screening to one side but you're actually going the other way.   

 

Do all that stuff and more.   

 

The offense that Bills are playing has virtually no chance of succeeding, unless the defense holds the opponent to single digits.  Play an offense that may blow up in your face, but it at least has a chance to score 20 a game or more.   And in the meantime you'll be giving your young players an opportunity to learn.   

 

This is a man's game, and asking your players to take baby steps ain't gonna cut it.  

Giving a rookie more then he can handle is a recipe for disaster in my humble opinion.  Peterman flat out failed miserably, and Anderson is just learning the play book. So with all due respect Shaw I don't see how adding more plays when Buffalo isn't executing the ones they already have properly helps matters IMO.

Edited October 23, 2018 by Figster

[LABILLBACKER]

16 hours ago, Stank_Nasty said:

The last 2 years my wife and I have finally found a place financially that traveling and attending our first ever away games is an option.... We’ve had the displeasure of being able to plan 3 weekend long trips...... 

 

Jax for playoffs last year, crossed lambeau off my bucket list this year, and visited an old college friend in Indy this last weekend. 64 total hours on the road for a grand total of 8 Pts scored. That’s 1 pt for every 8 hours on the road. This is no joke. You can’t freaking make something like that up for a good book. I’ve tried convincing myself during the weekend and games that I shouldn’t let the final score deter my trip.... but that becomes much harder when you have hours of road in front of you on Sunday nights or Monday mornings. 

 

After getting back into the house today near Erie, Pa, disgusted and exhausted from another drive of shame, I’ve made up my mind I’m just not doing away games anymore. Or at least for the foreseable future. It’s just not worth it and I’m honestly just really pissed off at the franchise right now. 

 

Im sure I’ll come around. I ALWAYS do. But we’re talking 8 pts in 3 games!!!! I need some time. 

Glad you didn't convert miles to points.

[oldmanfan]

I don't think we could expect a more complex offense Sunday given Anderson was about to weeks in (and sitting there on Sunday I sure wish they would have).  I do think they should open it up when Allen gets back on the field.  They need to get him and the other young guys time in what Daboll really wants to run.

As for all the other crap being written about firing the coach this year, blah, blah, blah, that's just all a bunch of crap made up by people wanting to blow off steam.  I am concerned as well that there are games when the team comes out flat for some reason, as they did Sunday.  McDermott needs to figure out why his team comes out flat sometimes, but the coach is not getting fired.  I think Pegula has learned his lesson in that you cannot continue to just change coaches every couple years, whether it be the Bills or Sabres, and expect better outcomes.  For both franchises, they have hired relatively young coaches and GMs that learned their crafts in successful organizations and under successful HCs or GMs. In both cases the guys they hired were well thought of around their respective leagues and on the short list to assume their new positions.  Botterill is brining in new talent,  more suited to the style of play he and Housley want, and things are turning in the right direction.  McDermott and Beane will likewise follow a similar path with the Bills, and they have a lot of cap space and draft picks to do so.

 

Sometimes the coaches and front office personnel can't win around here.  For years the Bills have played around .500 ball, somewhere between 6-10 and 9-7.  For years folks were saying they need to destroy the roster and start from scratch to build a real contender. For years fans have said the Bills will go nowhere until they draft a QB high in the draft that can be our next long term star at the position.  So what have Beane and McDermott done?   They got rid of a bunch of guys to get cap space to build it the way they want.  They went out and drafted the QB that so many said you have to have to win.  And what do we see around now?  They shouldn't have been so radical trading guys, they should have kept guy X or guy Y (even though when they were here guy X and guy Y got roasted by the same fans).  They can't recognize talent.  The QB they took is a bum, as if 5 games is anywhere near enough time to even scratch at whether that has any validity whatsoever.   They should have kept the QB from last year that everyone was howling about not being good enough.  They should have had all these pieces around Allen like WRs and linemen, forgetting that just a year or so ago the line was that when you have the QB that is the key and he elevates all those around him. 

 

I listened a bit on line to the knuckleheads on WGR this morning, yelling and screaming about McD's philosophy, apparently because he said something along the lines of needing a good D and run game in Buffalo.  Well, a couple things.   First, I read his comments and he said also he'd love to have an offense that scores 50 points a game.  And you can add that to Beane saying I don't know how many times pre-draft that you cannot win in the NFL without a QB.  I think Bills management is well aware they need a more high powered offense to compete. Second, the high powered offenses in the league now have strong running games as complements.  And third as one who has gone to games in Buffalo since 1960, if you don't think you need a strong running game and a guy that can hum the ball through the wind, plus good D, to win the pivotal games in November-January, you haven't watched much Bills football. 

 

These are frustrating times in Bills land.  The GM and HC can justifiably be criticized for some things,.  Not having an Anderson here earlier is one.  The lethargy seen at the beginning of games is another.  Taking shots on guys like Coleman and losing a pick you would like to have is another example.  But  they are not getting fired.  Nor should they.  too many people around here forget that there were 12 playoff teams out of 32 last year, and the Bills were one of them.  This year sucks, no question, but off of what McD did last year with a pretty bad roster it is obvious the man can coach.  They have a plan, and that plan will take a couple years.  If you don't think the Pegulas know that and are willing to give them that time, you're just being reactionary.

 

McDermott and Beane will rise or fall like all other head guys in the NFL rise and fall on: whether their plan to build a winner is successful or not.  And it is way, way too early to know that.  We'll see how the rest of this year goes, see who they can count on going forward.  Tough and unpopular decisions may still be made, like trading Shady.   They will have to get the right guys in free agency (personally, I think they will target guys like Hyde and Poyer, a bit under the radar but guys that won't break the bank but be really solid guys).  They will have to draft well (and if they don't draft O linemen and receivers, or get some in free agency, I'll be as vocally critical as anyone).  They have their young QB and MLB, as well as other young talent.  If they supplement them well, it'll work.  it's on them to make it so.  Until we know whether they made the right decisions, no one is going anywhere.

 

 

 

. 

[CincyBillsFan]

Great thread!  Some fun & smart comments.  My random takes:

 

*  I agree with Shaw's take on the offense - very unimaginative.  In fact the only time I can remember where Dabold & company were creative was against Minnesota where after a TO he ran a fake WR screen and had Allen throw to the end zone for a wide open TD.  But even here all the Bills did was take advantage of their own extreme predictability.  

 

*   I also agree that with Allen out the games are uninteresting.  Whether you like or dislike Allen his progress made things interesting.  A good throw that was dropped at least had the positive of having been a good throw & read by our rookie QB.  Now who cares if Anderson throws for 400 yards and 5 TD's?  Seriously, we know he's not any type of solution and that all we are seeing is a freak event.  Sort of like when that ***** (sex toy) got thrown onto the field. 

 

*  I'm in the camp that believes Allen will be a very good NFL QB.  But my confidence that the Bills brain trust won't screw him up has fallen recently. 

 

*  I'm also in the camp that no matter how worrisome the head coach and GM's actions are we have to give them more time.  A constant turnover in coaching/management simply won't work. 

 

*  Monday night should be a hoot.  Either the Bills will play way over their heads like on that Monday night game Dallas where they lost at the buzzer on a 54 yard FG or they will get Baltimored.  Either way this should make for some fun TV viewing particularly if buttressed by some heavy re-game drinking. 

Edited October 23, 2018 by CincyBillsFan

[Figster]

2 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

I don't think we could expect a more complex offense Sunday given Anderson was about to weeks in (and sitting there on Sunday I sure wish they would have).  I do think they should open it up when Allen gets back on the field.  They need to get him and the other young guys time in what Daboll really wants to run.

As for all the other crap being written about firing the coach this year, blah, blah, blah, that's just all a bunch of crap made up by people wanting to blow off steam.  I am concerned as well that there are games when the team comes out flat for some reason, as they did Sunday.  McDermott needs to figure out why his team comes out flat sometimes, but the coach is not getting fired.  I think Pegula has learned his lesson in that you cannot continue to just change coaches every couple years, whether it be the Bills or Sabres, and expect better outcomes.  For both franchises, they have hired relatively young coaches and GMs that learned their crafts in successful organizations and under successful HCs or GMs. In both cases the guys they hired were well thought of around their respective leagues and on the short list to assume their new positions.  Botterill is brining in new talent,  more suited to the style of play he and Housley want, and things are turning in the right direction.  McDermott and Beane will likewise follow a similar path with the Bills, and they have a lot of cap space and draft picks to do so.

 

Sometimes the coaches and front office personnel can't win around here.  For years the Bills have played around .500 ball, somewhere between 6-10 and 9-7.  For years folks were saying they need to destroy the roster and start from scratch to build a real contender. For years fans have said the Bills will go nowhere until they draft a QB high in the draft that can be our next long term star at the position.  So what have Beane and McDermott done?   They got rid of a bunch of guys to get cap space to build it the way they want.  They went out and drafted the QB that so many said you have to have to win.  And what do we see around now?  They shouldn't have been so radical trading guys, they should have kept guy X or guy Y (even though when they were here guy X and guy Y got roasted by the same fans).  They can't recognize talent.  The QB they took is a bum, as if 5 games is anywhere near enough time to even scratch at whether that has any validity whatsoever.   They should have kept the QB from last year that everyone was howling about not being good enough.  They should have had all these pieces around Allen like WRs and linemen, forgetting that just a year or so ago the line was that when you have the QB that is the key and he elevates all those around him. 

 

I listened a bit on line to the knuckleheads on WGR this morning, yelling and screaming about McD's philosophy, apparently because he said something along the lines of needing a good D and run game in Buffalo.  Well, a couple things.   First, I read his comments and he said also he'd love to have an offense that scores 50 points a game.  And you can add that to Beane saying I don't know how many times pre-draft that you cannot win in the NFL without a QB.  I think Bills management is well aware they need a more high powered offense to compete. Second, the high powered offenses in the league now have strong running games as complements.  And third as one who has gone to games in Buffalo since 1960, if you don't think you need a strong running game and a guy that can hum the ball through the wind, plus good D, to win the pivotal games in November-January, you haven't watched much Bills football. 

 

These are frustrating times in Bills land.  The GM and HC can justifiably be criticized for some things,.  Not having an Anderson here earlier is one.  The lethargy seen at the beginning of games is another.  Taking shots on guys like Coleman and losing a pick you would like to have is another example.  But  they are not getting fired.  Nor should they.  too many people around here forget that there were 12 playoff teams out of 32 last year, and the Bills were one of them.  This year sucks, no question, but off of what McD did last year with a pretty bad roster it is obvious the man can coach.  They have a plan, and that plan will take a couple years.  If you don't think the Pegulas know that and are willing to give them that time, you're just being reactionary.

 

McDermott and Beane will rise or fall like all other head guys in the NFL rise and fall on: whether their plan to build a winner is successful or not.  And it is way, way too early to know that.  We'll see how the rest of this year goes, see who they can count on going forward.  Tough and unpopular decisions may still be made, like trading Shady.   They will have to get the right guys in free agency (personally, I think they will target guys like Hyde and Poyer, a bit under the radar but guys that won't break the bank but be really solid guys).  They will have to draft well (and if they don't draft O linemen and receivers, or get some in free agency, I'll be as vocally critical as anyone).  They have their young QB and MLB, as well as other young talent.  If they supplement them well, it'll work.  it's on them to make it so.  Until we know whether they made the right decisions, no one is going anywhere.

 

 

 

. 

What a great post IMO,

 

Thanks

[RoyBatty is alive]

On 10/22/2018 at 10:02 AM, Moulds_80 said:

I like your take.

 

I was getting mad at the beginning of the season, but now im trying to just laugh it off.  

 

The GF had an intervention of sorts and said sundays are miserable with me because when the bills lose(which happens too often), im useless and grumpy the rest of the day.

 

side note:  Better chance of winning the $1.6 Billion mega millions or the Bills winning on Monday?

Have to say the Lotto

[SoCal Deek]

OldMan....that sure was a lots of words you posted there! But in one sentence: McBeanes have staked their future on Allen and Edmunds...period!

[Figster]

3 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

OldMan....that sure was a lots of words you posted there! But in one sentence: McBeanes have staked their future on Allen and Edmunds...period!

Pegula's were and in all likelyhood still are very high on Josh Allen so its not like McBeanes are in this alone IMO.

 

I know I still am...

[SoCal Deek]

8 minutes ago, Figster said:

Pegula's were and in all likelyhood still are very high on Josh Allen so its not like McBeanes are in this alone IMO.

 

I know I still am...

So you’re saying Terry and Kim are going to be out of here too? ? Sweet! That’ll allow me to swoop in and buy the franchise after all.

[Shaw66]

2 hours ago, Soda Popinski said:

I understand the idea, build through the draft but with 10 draft picks if we play 10 rookies next year we'll be 4-12 again.   Good teams don't play double digit rookies. They can package picks and get more high rounders.   But they are going to have to spend some money on free agents to fill positions. 

I'm not saying I like it; I'm just saying that Beane has been very clear that that's what he's doing.   And, as I said, it's been the Packers philosophy for years, and it worked for them.  

 

If I were Beane, I'd look at this way:  I know what kind of players we are looking for, and I've studied the draft really carefully for the past five years.  That means there are guys who are the kind of guys we are looking for coming off their rookie contracts.   Some of them are going to be free agents.  I need some quality veteran help, so why wouldn't I go after some of those guys?

 

But that isn't what he's said.   He's said people shouldn't expect to see the Bills on a spending spree in free agency.   He's said they probably will look to plug a hole or two in free agency, but other then that, they want to draft their players.  

[PlayoffsPlease]

3 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

I'm not saying I like it; I'm just saying that Beane has been very clear that that's what he's doing.   And, as I said, it's been the Packers philosophy for years, and it worked for them.  

 

If I were Beane, I'd look at this way:  I know what kind of players we are looking for, and I've studied the draft really carefully for the past five years.  That means there are guys who are the kind of guys we are looking for coming off their rookie contracts.   Some of them are going to be free agents.  I need some quality veteran help, so why wouldn't I go after some of those guys?

 

But that isn't what he's said.   He's said people shouldn't expect to see the Bills on a spending spree in free agency.   He's said they probably will look to plug a hole or two in free agency, but other then that, they want to draft their players.  

The packers have had a two prong philosophy for a couple of decades  1) Brett Farve 2) Aaron Rodgers 

[Shaw66]

8 hours ago, LSHMEAB said:

I highly doubt Beane would ever have the opportunity to fire McDermott. 

 

 

I agree with you.   A GM ordinarily has that power, but few GMs do it without consulting with the owners.  I think, as I think you do, that the Pegulas are too committed to McD to let Beane fire him any time soon.  

7 hours ago, Figster said:

What a great post IMO,

 

Thanks

I agree.   It captures the reality of the current situation.