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Bills are 2013 Houston Astros.


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1 minute ago, billsfan11 said:

In this comparison it does mean something though.

 

The Astros had elite level young talent. They were Can’t miss players that were drafted top 3 in consecutive drafts.

 

A mid 3rd round pick that looks “descent “ does not compare to the elite young talent the astros had.

 

Most teams have 2nd and 3rd round picks that are descent players who could have promising futures.

 

 

 

Not really. There is no such thing as cant miss players and draft status does not indicate success in rebuild. The OP is making that point that we are stockpiling young players who fit our mold and will then be the core of the team. All of the players that I mentioned seem to fit that billing so far to some level or another. 

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2 hours ago, whatdrought said:

 

White. Edmunds. Phillips. Johnson. Milano. Dawkins. Allen. 

 

Allen is still a great young prospect. Note the word prospect. It’s too early to say which way it will go. That’s kind of the point of the OP. 

 

The four our most important pieces to building a team are LT, Pass Rusher, CB, and QB. We have young prospects who have shown some promise in 3 out of 4. 

 

Come on. 

 

This is an example of Bills fans pointing out average things as extraordinary. 

 

White is genuinely an impact player. 

 

Past that, there is nothing of note on this Bills team. 

 

Allen was not impressive in college, not impressive in 5 starts, and is hurt right now. The shine is off that pick until further notice. 

 

Pointing out starters on a 2-5 team doesn't do a whole lot. Every team has some younger draft picks playing. 

 

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3 minutes ago, whatdrought said:

 

Not really. There is no such thing as cant miss players and draft status does not indicate success in rebuild. The OP is making that point that we are stockpiling young players who fit our mold and will then be the core of the team. All of the players that I mentioned seem to fit that billing so far to some level or another. 

If you think the Bills have the young talent of players such as Altuve, Springer, Correa, Bregman etc. I don’t know what to tell you. Not even in the same ball park as the Astros. Literally and figuratively

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Better comp, I think, would be Eagles, Rams and Bears. 

 

Also, as far as why would free agents want to come here? Money and culture. I think people are way underestimating the number of players who don't care about winning, because they stopped having fun playing football a long time ago.

 

Imagine if you had to do the same thing for 20 years, and the only real reason you are able to do it is you were randomly born gifted enough. Sure, hard work counts for something, but you can't develop nfl talent if you don't have the skill set, it's too competitive. It's not like college, you have to be born with it.

 

And it hurts, a lot, and it's not ever going to stop hurting even after you finish playing. And fans are total jerks in aggregate, and don't appreciate you or your worth as a human, or your future life.

 

Do you really think you would have a driving passion to do something that 12 year olds love more than anything for 20 years of your life? I wouldn't. I want to grow, learn, become a better person and improve myself, my whole self, not just a sliver that people don't appreciate outside of a select few teammates. I would want coaches that care about my full self, and teammates as well. Winning is at best secondary for a huge number of players, if not the vast majority.

 

I'd love to say I'd care the most about winning, but it has to get old, and they have families, and dreams outside of football.

 

So the roster situation and lack of winning, I don't think that keeps them away, it's about the money, and I'm cool with that. That said, these contacts aren't guaranteed, so it's going to take a lot of upfront money because losing teams cut players.  Also, you're probably targeting older free agents that aren't worried about a second big free agency contract, because losing can hurt your perceived worth.

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2 minutes ago, billsfan11 said:

If you think the Bills have the young talent of players such as Altuve, Springer, Correa, Bregman etc. I don’t know what to tell you. Not even in the same ball park as the Astros. Literally and figuratively

 

I'm not saying that. (I also don't know who they are, as I don't follow much Baseball) I am saying that in 2013 they had a lot of unproven potential, and in 2018 we do as well. That's the point of the OP. Nobody thought the Seahawks would have a great football team with their mid to late round picks who were nobodies. 

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8 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

 

Come on. 

 

This is an example of Bills fans pointing out average things as extraordinary. 

 

White is genuinely an impact player. 

 

Past that, there is nothing of note on this Bills team. 

 

Allen was not impressive in college, not impressive in 5 starts, and is hurt right now. The shine is off that pick until further notice. 

 

Pointing out starters on a 2-5 team doesn't do a whole lot. Every team has some younger draft picks playing. 

 

 

Dude. They're prospects. They're young. All the guys I mentioned are in their first or second year. If you're really judging them and positive that they won't turn out to be a good nucleus then good for you, but that's stupid. 

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1 hour ago, nucci said:

I get it...because after winning the World Series last season they lost in the ALCS this year.....I see what you did there...clever

 

 

Maybe he'll toss a few dozen Super Bowl tickets at the Eagles in February too.

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1 minute ago, whatdrought said:

 

I'm not saying that. (I also don't know who they are, as I don't follow much Baseball) I am saying that in 2013 they had a lot of unproven potential, and in 2018 we do as well. That's the point of the OP. Nobody thought the Seahawks would have a great football team with their mid to late round picks who were nobodies. 

Haha fair enough. If you don’t follow baseball though, I would highly recommend you don’t agree with the OPs comparison with the Astros then because it really isn’t close lol.

 

But I see what you’re saying and I understand your point.

 

 

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1 minute ago, billsfan11 said:

Haha fair enough. If you don’t follow baseball though, I would highly recommend you don’t agree with the OPs comparison with the Astros then because it really isn’t close lol.

 

But I see what you’re saying and I understand your point.

 

 

 

But that's from the optic of 2018. If in 2022 we have a superbowl winning team stacked with all this young talent that turned into studs (not saying, or even dreaming that it could happen) then we'd be just like the example- or at least how the OP explained it. Now, I do admit that since I don't know the backstory of the Astro team, that it is possible his explanation was off, I don't know. I was only responding to his initial comparison. 

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3 hours ago, billsfan11 said:

What young good Bills players/prospects do the Bills have?

 

With the exception of White and maybe Edmunds.

 

I like Allen and I HOPE he will be great one day, but I remain skeptical.

 

Dawkins and Milano, Harrison Phillips, Zay Jones is showing better over recent weeks and I think he's been the best WR for the Bills this year - and that's not saying much, but a young Rookie QB has done him no favors, then add in Taron Johnson who is having a strong Rookie campaign. These are just last year's and this year's players. That's not including Hyde and Poyer that weren't Bills until last year, but the Bills did go a get them to make them a really strong Safety tandem, in fact one of the best in the league last year. 

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4 minutes ago, whatdrought said:

 

But that's from the optic of 2018. If in 2022 we have a superbowl winning team stacked with all this young talent that turned into studs (not saying, or even dreaming that it could happen) then we'd be just like the example- or at least how the OP explained it. Now, I do admit that since I don't know the backstory of the Astro team, that it is possible his explanation was off, I don't know. I was only responding to his initial comparison. 

Do you really see a lot of young talent on this team though? I don’t yet.

 

White, Edmunds. Those are 2 guys I think will be good for a long time. Especially white.

 

Allen? Probably not to maybe.

Milano? Probably will always be a descent player but not great

Dawkins? Same as Milano.

Phillips? Hard to judge now. Looks serviceable .

 

Thats basically it though.

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6 minutes ago, billsfan11 said:

Do you really see a lot of young talent on this team though? I don’t yet.

 

White, Edmunds. Those are 2 guys I think will be good for a long time. Especially white.

 

Allen? Probably not to maybe.

Milano? Probably will always be a descent player but not great

Dawkins? Same as Milano.

Phillips? Hard to judge now. Looks serviceable .

 

Thats basically it though.

 

I mean, I think all the guys I listed have the chance to become great starters. Realistically, I see Edmunds and White being superstars, Milano being a good outside linebacker (we could even get lucky and see him become a Thomas Davis type), Dawkins a solid LT (probably top 15, but not top 10), Phillips is a toss up- I think he'll at least be like a KW type where he is always good and has stretches of greatness but doesn't ever get recognition, and I think Johnson can become a quality slot corner- right now he's PFF ranked (for what it's worth) as the 16th corner overall, so that's very promising. 

 

Allen is the big question mark, and obviously how he goes the team will go. I think that he has the tools, and the skills to be great (see Mahomes) but I question this regimes ability to develop him. Time really will tell though. 

 

All that to say, we are getting some decent play from young bucks who I look forward to watching grow. Really in 5 years we could be looking at this as another busted attempt to rebuild, or we could be looking at this as the start of a great team being built. I think it honestly could go either way at this point.

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28 minutes ago, billsfan11 said:

Do you really see a lot of young talent on this team though? I don’t yet.

 

White, Edmunds. Those are 2 guys I think will be good for a long time. Especially white.

 

Allen? Probably not to maybe.

Milano? Probably will always be a descent player but not great

Dawkins? Same as Milano.

Phillips? Hard to judge now. Looks serviceable .

 

Thats basically it though.

 

So, let me recap: Allen, jury is still out - yes and I think everyone in the football universe knew it would take AT LEAST a year before we even began to see his full potential, let alone closing the book on good or not. So, probably not is just your presumption of bias being accurate. Maybe is your strongest argument here and that can't be disputed because nobody knows.

 

White and Edmunds their other two 1st Round players will be good...awesome.

Milano - was recently named AFC Defensive player of the week. I have no idea how he'll do over the long term, but you realize he's still just in the midst of his 2nd year and a 5th round pick?

Dawkins: decent is good for now, again given he's in the middle of his second year. Remember Jason Peters? Took him a FEW years to show he was worthy of being THE LT for a long time. Dawkins could regress...but until then, that's a home-run when your second year LT nails it down.

Phillips - playing second fiddle to KW, but has done so well that the coaching staff feel comfortable moving him around and giving him more responsibility for a ROOKIE. 

 

Before I go any further, you *do* realize you've given them fair to good credit for SIX - count them - 6 Draft prospect in TWO freaking Drafts..????? That's six good to great starters....and that is NOT presuming Allen or Zay Jones who I've already said has been their best receiver or Taron Johnson who gets the love from local and national media alike in terms of his play or Wyat Teller who hasn't even dressed for a game yet because a 10+ year Vet has manned his position so far and done it fairly well. 

 

Now consider Jordan Phillips, Hyde and Poyer, Jason Croom, and Bojorquez who've all played pivotal roles as they've been asked. No they weren't drafted but they were acquired by various means, which adds value to how Beane and McD see talent. The team built on the Defense because there were good pieces in place, the Offense is a total gut job and it will take two years to tear down and rebuild - mostly because of poor Cap management by Whaley. So, even with all of your "they're terrible" you're unwittingly giving them a great deal of credit in basically a year and a half of football. 

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1 hour ago, whatdrought said:

  

Round of selection means nothing, what they show on the field means everything. So far they have shown to be decent players with bright futures. They could become the core of this team going forward, they could not. 

 

Decent compared to whom?   For all we know, they could very well just be subs or STers on better NFL teams, but they're starting because the Bills have no one better. 

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9 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

Decent compared to whom?   For all we know, they could very well just be subs or STers on better NFL teams, but they're starting because the Bills have no one better. 

 

Decent compared to talent evaluators who get paid money to look at football players and determine how they are playing. But okay. 

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