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The Vikings think Allen > Darnold


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7 hours ago, mattynh said:

Darnold completes 56.1%, 10 TD's, 10 INT's 221.7 ypg and a 74.3 rating 

Josh Allen completes 54%, 2 TD's 5 INT's 138.7 ypg and a 61.8 rating. 

 

Darnold throws for 165% more yards than allen per game, has a better rating and TD to INT ratio.  Based on the stats Darnold is significantly ahead.   Neither are performing in a way that will win you a lot of games but Darnold is throwing for a reasonable volume of yards/td's for a rookie.  There are not a lot of signs of life from Allen IMO so far other than a few plays he has made with his legs.  Both can improve immensely though given some more experience this year, an offseason of work and an influx of talent.  I am not gonna lie though, I worry if Allen can get it together.

 

But this is a classic case where considering ONLY the stats gives you the wrong answer IMO.  A QB's success depends a lot upon the talent around him and the strength of the defenses he faces.  In both of these Darnold has a huge advantage over Allen.  Darnold has better talent supporting him and he's faced much weaker defenses.  Given those two facts alone, Allen's stats are surprisingly competitive versus Darnolds. 

 

And let's not forget that the Jets committed to Darnold right from the git go and he got all of the 1st team snaps in practice & throughout the exhibition games.  This is no small thing for a rookie QB. 

 

As others have said it's way to early to make any conclusions as to how good or bad the rookie QB's are.  My hope is that Darnold & Allen grow into the type of QB's and divisional rivals that Kelly & Marino were.   Wouldn't it be fantastic if ten years from now they're both had great careers and every summer attended each others golf tournaments in Buffalo & NYC. 

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1 minute ago, CincyBillsFan said:

 

But this is a classic case where considering ONLY the stats gives you the wrong answer IMO.  A QB's success depends a lot upon the talent around him and the strength of the defenses he faces.  In both of these Darnold has a huge advantage over Allen.  Darnold has better talent supporting him and he's faced much weaker defenses.  Given those two facts alone, Allen's stats are surprisingly competitive versus Darnolds. 

 

And let's not forget that the Jets committed to Darnold right from the git go and he got all of the 1st team snaps in practice & throughout the exhibition games.  This is no small thing for a rookie QB. 

 

As others have said it's way to early to make any conclusions as to how good or bad the rookie QB's are.  My hope is that Darnold & Allen grow into the type of QB's and divisional rivals that Kelly & Marino were.   Wouldn't it be fantastic if ten years from now they're both had great careers and every summer attended each others golf tournaments in Buffalo & NYC. 

Its too early to tell for both.  You make a couple good points, especially about the reps.  I am not sure the Jets have a better supporting cast, if they do its marginal.    This staff totally mismanaged QB all offseason and we are seeing the result.

 

For the bolded, on one had I could say both stats suck but the Jets under Darnold gain a lot more yards and score a lot more TD's than the Bills under Allen.  Completion percentage and ratings both suck balls.   But at least Darnold has some success throwing the ball, Allen really does not as of yet.

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12 minutes ago, mattynh said:

Its too early to tell for both.  You make a couple good points, especially about the reps.  I am not sure the Jets have a better supporting cast, if they do its marginal.    This staff totally mismanaged QB all offseason and we are seeing the result.

 

For the bolded, on one had I could say both stats suck but the Jets under Darnold gain a lot more yards and score a lot more TD's than the Bills under Allen.  Completion percentage and ratings both suck balls.   But at least Darnold has some success throwing the ball, Allen really does not as of yet.

 

I would agree that it's definitely to early.  By the end of next season we'll have a sense of how these two will be doing but even then they could either soar or go into a nose dive for the rest of their careers.  That's why the panic over Allen by a small but vocal subset of Bill's supporters is so annoying to me. 

 

As for your 2nd point I won't deny that Darnold has led a more robust NY Jet offense compared to the Allen led Bills offense.  But to me that is due more to differences in coaching philosophy than any indication of differences between the two QB's.  Buffalo, with a better than average defense and a running pedigree simply won't throw it around like the Jets will.  Put Darnold on Buffalo and Allen on the Jets and I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't swap out each others stats with Allen having more yards, TD's & INT's then Darnold. 

Edited by CincyBillsFan
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Counting preseason, the Bills have used 4 quarterbacks now and all of them have struggled.  McCarron in preseason did not look good either.  Josh Allen shouldn't have been thrust in as the starter in week 2, but easy to see why he was.  A couple weeks here watching the game will help him, but Bills offense and lack of playmakers is going to restrict anyones success. 

 

Dak Prescott had much better stats his rookie year than his 2nd year.  Jared Goff looked like he could barely throw the ball 20 yards his rookie year and he's looking really good now.   Anyone who's been watching the NFL for a long time knows that you simply cannot accurately rate a rookie quarterback based on their first year.  Tom Brady played in ONE freaking game his whole rookie year, for only a few plays.  Obviously no way to know then how he would end up.  

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2 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Dispute it.  Besides blind hope and physical skills, what have you seen that makes you think Allen will be a good nfl QB?  I don’t blame him in the slightest that he got overvalued in the draft process.  He had 2 300 yard games in college against California Davis and UNLv.  He is off to a worst start than EJ Manuel.  

 

Have you seen Wyoming without Allen? Both last year in the games he missed and now a year later?

 

Statistics couldn’t possibly be more irrelevant.

 

To say Allen wasn’t good at Wyoming - an ancient offensive system surrounded with players who won’t sniff NFL training camps - is absolutely comical.

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3 hours ago, sleeby said:

This town destroys young QBs careers.  I am of the opinion that the fans and local media are a large part of it too.  These kids come here and people are so impatient - beyond impatient - they expect the kid to fail and root against him where every mistake is magnified into an "I told ya he sucked."

 

Some here have told me that they are professionals who.have been under pressure all of their lives and can take it.  That they don't pay any attention.  Etc.  Nonsense.  They are very young men under a ton of pressure, trying to have a career as other than car salesman,  and being hated on daily.  They are human. 

 

Jim kelly retells his story about arriving in Buffalo airpoint frequently.  He expected to be hated here after refusing us amd escaping to the usfl.  When he arrived at the airport the first time he was greeted by a crowd who cheered him which he thought very unexpected until he got to know us.  Anyhow, he tells the story likely as it was a real moment in his career here.  What if those people had been there to throw hate at him that day?

 

" If you plant ice you're gonna harvest wind."  - robert hunter/jerry Garcia

 

To those who make these posts (all the haters) I wish you would come to the realization that the 12th man on the wall at the stadium is not meant for you anymore than it's meant for the dolphin's fan a section to your left.  Not saying to be a complete homer but how about less of a cancer?  FIVE games!  Cripes.  

You know, Sleeby, Just because some of us disagree with you on what the future looks like for Josh, doesn't make us "haters", to use your word. I hope you are right & I am wrong.

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Hopefully Allen heals up and we get to see Darnold vs Allen twice this season.  When Allen comes back I'd like to see McDermott quit babying Allen and put it on him.  Let the passing offense open up  Quit this run run pass only when you have to (3rd and long)  If you have to narrow it to one side of the field and only a few reads going the same direction that's fine but let the kid get reps throwing the football . This 20 attempts a game 1945 nfl crap sucks  Were not competative so use the season for something useful like giving this guy meaningful snaps to learn his craft

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On 10/22/2018 at 6:49 AM, Fadingpain said:

Sam Darnold is starting to separate from the rest of his QB draft class.

 

Tyler Dunne was just commenting on this recently, mentioning Darnold is showing like 5th year understanding already and has the QB experts drooling.  

 

Allen is a bust waiting to happen.

 

 

Waiting to happen.....never does....image.png.e447b97d2acdec94b73ecdee09fa0d63.png

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47 minutes ago, prissythecat said:

 

 

Chuckie  cut EJ because he stunk .  It wasnt  the Bills anymore.

 

I'm saying Allen has like 10-15 more games left to turn it around, including the offseason.  I used EJ's allotted timeframe as the example. What does "chuckie" have to do with anything?

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6 minutes ago, fridge said:

 

I'm saying Allen has like 10-15 more games left to turn it around, including the offseason.  I used EJ's allotted timeframe as the example. What does "chuckie" have to do with anything?

I liked EJ. I hoped he would develop into an NFL qb when most gave up on him. Already, despite the naysayers, Allen is a better qb than EJ ever was. EJ was a blue chip prospect who signed with FSU. He had top coaches and NFL caliber players at skill positions around him. As an NFL player, he never seemed to have confidence and melted under pressure. Josh Allen has a long way to go, but he's already shown more courage under duress and the ability to make plays. Go look at how Wyoming is faring without him. He evidently raised a very poor team to fairly good in his conference, despite those who fixate on completion percentage. Allen is only now receiving the coaching other first round rookies had for years. Too bad his coaches and surrounding cast are for the most part below average. 

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On 10/22/2018 at 5:02 AM, longtimebillsfan said:

I still think people on this board are to ready to call Allen a bust   he has so much talent. But us very raw in his experience.   Once the games slows down for him and he can be surrounded by better talent on offense,  he has a good chance to be the franchise quarterback we are hoping he will be.

Every single pundit before last draft said Allen was the one qb out of the 4 who would require the most time watching,  learning and being on the sidelines hopefully seeing a vet do it. Unfortunately we failed to sign that vet. Peterman,  McCarron and Anderson are all terrible.  Bridgewater would've probably been the best QB to teach Josh and give the Bills a few wins. Now all we can do is just wait for a top 3 pick. And draft a ton of wr's. 

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1 hour ago, fridge said:

 

I'm saying Allen has like 10-15 more games left to turn it around, including the offseason.  I used EJ's allotted timeframe as the example. What does "chuckie" have to do with anything?

 

 

Chuckie was EJ a most recent coach and the reason for him sitting out the current season ?

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15 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

Every single pundit before last draft said Allen was the one qb out of the 4 who would require the most time watching,  learning and being on the sidelines hopefully seeing a vet do it. Unfortunately we failed to sign that vet. Peterman,  McCarron and Anderson are all terrible.  Bridgewater would've probably been the best QB to teach Josh and give the Bills a few wins. Now all we can do is just wait for a top 3 pick. And draft a ton of wr's. 

Maybe Derek Anderson can be that veteran voice.  Allen will most likely start when he is healthy, but Anderson maybe able to provide the instructions and insights that will help Allen develop.

 

I am on board with wr's with the first three picks.  I would be willing to bet that one of the first two picks will be a defensive player.

 

 

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8 minutes ago, Teddy KGB said:

Savior Sam looks like garbaaaaaaaage again. 

 

 

I believe the custom is to start a new thread announcing everything wrong with the world, like it was an original idea.  ?

 

Baker has made some bone headed decisions as well. This is the most I’ve seen of Mahomes, and, well....yeah.... over 300 yards again. And of course lots of weapons, etc. 

 

For the record, Sam would have been my guy in this draft, but it is what it is. There’s a lifetime ahead for all these guys and time will tell. 

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