Straight Hucklebuck Posted October 22, 2018 Share Posted October 22, 2018 I hate the idea of trading down. The Browns tried trading down for years and passed on guys like Julio Jones and Carson Wentz to pick up guys like Justin Gilbert and Barkavious Mingo. You either take talent or you play against them for the next decade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihilarian Posted October 22, 2018 Share Posted October 22, 2018 (edited) 40 minutes ago, mannc said: No, of course the Bills should not use their first pick on an interior defensive lineman. The last time they did that—8 yeas ago—they passed on two generational talents at WR, both of whom are still lighting up the league. The real question is, do you have enough confidence in McBeane to allow them to make that pick? So far, they have proven to be utterly incompetent when it comes to putting a modern NFL offense on the field. In case that Bills fans don't remember those two players are AJ Green, Julio Jones. Anyway, one blue chip player isn't going to turn this franchise around unless it's a QB who can do it all on his own regardless of how bad his offensive line is and the only guy I can think of that can do that is Russell Wilson. Even he needed a run game to take pressure off of him to make that offense work. Before yesterdays game Colts QB Andrew Luck begged the HC Frank Reich to please "run the ball", they did just that and the results were more than obvious. That Colts run game took the heat off of Luck and forced the Bills defenders to focus on stopping the run which opened up the Colts passing game and Luck skewered the Bills defense. 4 TDs passing for Andrew Luck Going back to that bolded sentence the Bills could have traded back from that #3 spot and still gotten two or more of the great players from that first round. Then you need to think about that second sentence because this offensive coaching staff can't be relied on to evaluate anyone. Edited October 22, 2018 by Nihilarian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soda Popinski Posted October 22, 2018 Share Posted October 22, 2018 I'd take Bosa over Oliver, but then I'd trade my late round picks for extra 2nd and 3rds and draft all offense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsbackto81 Posted October 22, 2018 Share Posted October 22, 2018 14 hours ago, TheBeaneBandit said: While this team has many problems todays game was a great example of the need for an elite interior rusher. I know many here are on the trade down train, and i hear yas, but I'm on record for not passing up an elite talent if available, which we currently have none of. Bottom line I don't pass on Oliver or Bosa if available. Snag a couple recievers and oline in free agency and keep drafting bpa. Of course i believe we need quite a bit of coaching changes as well but i don't feel like going there right now lol How's Jacksonville doing with their elite front line defense? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted October 22, 2018 Share Posted October 22, 2018 1 hour ago, Coach Tuesday said: The Rams spent first round picks on Gurley and Goff. That’s it. Most of the rest of their high picks have focused on defense, FYI. Not really true. They spent a 2 on Watkins and a 1 on Cooks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo_Stampede Posted October 22, 2018 Share Posted October 22, 2018 31 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said: I hate the idea of trading down. The Browns tried trading down for years and passed on guys like Julio Jones and Carson Wentz to pick up guys like Justin Gilbert and Barkavious Mingo. You either take talent or you play against them for the next decade. The Browns drafted busts. So yeah, if you trade down and draft busts you're in trouble. Plus the biggest problem was they were passing on QBs as well. The Bills would only trade down if they believe in building around Allen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Straight Hucklebuck Posted October 22, 2018 Share Posted October 22, 2018 1 minute ago, TheTruthHurts said: The Browns drafted busts. So yeah, if you trade down and draft busts you're in trouble. Plus the biggest problem was they were passing on QBs as well. The Bills would only trade down if they believe in building around Allen. The Bills draft record is not any better. We could have had Kahlil Mack from UB. Instead we take the worst WR drafted in that first round at #4. I would not trade down. Stay put and draft Top 5 talent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted October 22, 2018 Share Posted October 22, 2018 9 minutes ago, dave mcbride said: Not really true. They spent a 2 on Watkins and a 1 on Cooks. Well, if we're talking about trading picks, that's another conversation. But the idea that you have to draft and develop players on offense is simply not true. There are different ways to do it - it's about resource allocation. Spending draft picks on college players is just one way to spend limited resources. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soda Popinski Posted October 22, 2018 Share Posted October 22, 2018 2 hours ago, Coach Tuesday said: The Rams spent first round picks on Gurley and Goff. That’s it. Most of the rest of their high picks have focused on defense, FYI. They don't mind trading picks for players, they traded for Watkins, they traded for Brandon Cooks, they drafted Cooper Kupp, they just keep adding weapons and it's paying off for them. They brought in Whitworth to play LT, signed Suh. They have drafted well and signed good free agents. But first and foremost they got their QB. And they got their HC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted October 22, 2018 Share Posted October 22, 2018 2 hours ago, mannc said: No, of course the Bills should not use their first pick on an interior defensive lineman. The last time they did that—8 yeas ago—they passed on two generational talents at WR, both of whom are still lighting up the league. The real question is, do you have enough confidence in McBeane to allow them to make that pick? So far, they have proven to be utterly incompetent when it comes to putting a modern NFL offense on the field. If there are generational type WRs of course they should pick them over dlinemen. Maybe there are in this draft... not really looked in detail yet but none have jumped out at me the college ball I have seen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reed83HOF Posted October 22, 2018 Share Posted October 22, 2018 You simply do not pass on elite, blue chip talent to fill roster holes in the draft. A good scenario from our past would equate to passing on Bruce Smith in order to draft Bill Fralic or Al Toon. There are 2 impact positions that you should be drafting high in rd 1 are an elite QB Prospect and an elite Pass Rushing prospect; those are the 2 game changing positions. Teams that draft to fill holes instead of accumulating elite talent field poor teams... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davspo Posted October 22, 2018 Share Posted October 22, 2018 1 hour ago, Reed83HOF said: You simply do not pass on elite, blue chip talent to fill roster holes in the draft. A good scenario from our past would equate to passing on Bruce Smith in order to draft Bill Fralic or Al Toon. There are 2 impact positions that you should be drafting high in rd 1 are an elite QB Prospect and an elite Pass Rushing prospect; those are the 2 game changing positions. Teams that draft to fill holes instead of accumulating elite talent field poor teams... I don't know if your last line is accurate, but I can say the Bills have been fielding a poor team since the 1990s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reed83HOF Posted October 22, 2018 Share Posted October 22, 2018 3 minutes ago, davspo said: I don't know if your last line is accurate, but I can say the Bills have been fielding a poor team since the 1990s. Every season at draft time, the conversation of BPA vs need always springs up. There are certain positions that are more valuable than others (QB & Pass Rusher vs LB & S), overall positional cost (x amount of salary cap $ for WRs) etc. When you are drafting to fill holes, that is when you tend see players and positions get over-drafted; the results are usually never ideal. When you draft at the top of the draft, you want to grab as many blue chip players as possible. That infusion of talent who can take over a game because they are that skilled will help the overall organization out more in the long run. I found this article earlier this year, and even though it is fan based, it is very well thought out IMO in regards to this... "Drafting for need is reactive, rather than proactive. Drafting for need means that the front office is focused only one year ahead. Basically, the franchise is asking the question: What position(s) do we need to fill in order to compete this year? The problem is that the organization may leave better players on the board in the effort to draft a guy that they think will make them competitive in September. The front office should be asking the question: Which player available will have the strongest positive impact on the franchise for the longest number of years? That’s the guy you choose. Instead of drafting for a year, teams should draft for a decade. Ten years later, people will remember and complain about the fact that the team’s GM left an all-pro on the board to pick a tight end because the OC needed him to ‘complete’ the scheme. However, if the GM passes on that tight end to select the best player in the draft, no one will ever bemoan the fact that the team couldn’t execute its full scheme because they didn’t have the right tight end for the system; they’ll be thrilled to have the all-pro talent for the next ten years. Drafting for need puts a team in a bad cycle that’s hard to break out of. The team will leave talented players on the board year after year as they chase the ephemeral ‘complete’ roster." https://www.hogshaven.com/2018/1/30/16882302/the-5-oclock-club-redskins-nfl-draft-bpa On this board we never, ever, B word about who we passed on in the draft. This part also rings true: "I’ve heard theories that are in direct opposition to what I believe. Some people think that the first round is where you draft for need (find an immediate starter for this season!), and that you can switch to a BPA philosophy in later rounds. That’s exactly backwards. The first round is where the generational players are usually found. No, I’m not suggesting that great players can’t be found in later rounds or that great players can’t be found among the undrafted free agents. Russell Wilson, Tom Brady and Tony Romo, among many many others are proof that talent evaluation is in part a crap shoot. But like craps (or nearly any form of gambling) some bets are more likely to pay off than others, and grabbing a guy with great on-field skills, athleticism, measurables, a seemingly good attitude, character and love for football in the first round is probably going to work out more often than not. In addition, in the 1st round, there can often be huge differences in talent from one pick to the next; these differences become less and less clear as we get to later rounds of the draft as players become more and more ‘average’." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaywrizzo Posted October 22, 2018 Share Posted October 22, 2018 10 hours ago, Bangarang said: I wouldn’t trust you to run a bath, never mind an NFL team. Yikes. Hahahahaha....ok clown....go get all the D ends U can find...lets see how well ur team does! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bangarang Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 1 hour ago, Jaywrizzo said: Hahahahaha....ok clown....go get all the D ends U can find...lets see how well ur team does! Just so you’re aware, the NFL draft has more than 1 round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaywrizzo Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 On 10/22/2018 at 8:11 PM, Bangarang said: Just so you’re aware, the NFL draft has more than 1 round. U just proved U know nothing about football....so I'm going to end this dumb conversation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan89 Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 On 10/21/2018 at 9:09 PM, Virgil said: I would be pissed if we took Oliver. We’ve spent enough on defense and that’s not what’s losing games for us. We are 3rd in the league in sacks. We have to score points. The only issue is what if a pass rusher is by far and away the best player available and there isn't a trade down? It might be plausible that if the Bills draft in the top 3 a pass rusher might be the prospect worth taking (If you had the 4th overall pick in this years draft do you take the elite defensive prospect in Ward or Chubb or do you massively reach for a receiver?) It might be more palatable to take a pass rusher at or near the top of the draft if there is a big spending spree on the offensive side of the ball and the 2nd and 3rd round picks are invested into the offense as well. If the Bills go out and sign 2 solid veteran WR's and 2 interior O-line players it makes it easier to put a big investment into the defense like that. I do hope there is a trade down available but that might not be the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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