MAJBobby Posted October 21, 2018 Share Posted October 21, 2018 1 minute ago, BillsfanAZ said: That is a temporary thing. You bring in the players that fit your vision. Did a sell off occur in Rams, Chi? Philly? Colts? New adaptive coaches can perform with what is on the roster 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maine-iac Posted October 21, 2018 Share Posted October 21, 2018 Because it worked so well for Chip Kelly? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlayoffsPlease Posted October 21, 2018 Share Posted October 21, 2018 28 minutes ago, major said: Heard today that Jon Gruden has a two year plan to completely overhaul the raiders roster to bring in his own players. Why do coaches do this (our own included)? I’ve seen this done in my profession as well and it rarely works. I know some answers will revolve around new schemes and new players. But it seems to be more of an ego trip, in my opinion. So why do you think they do this? sometimes it works. Pete Carroll rolled over 50 of the 53 players on the roster he inherited and won the super bowl his third season in Seattle. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsfanAZ Posted October 21, 2018 Share Posted October 21, 2018 Just now, MAJBobby said: Because Old School cosches are set in their ways and know nothing else. You notice McVay didnt sell off the Roster in LA, Nagy in Chi That is because Fischer did a good job drafting for the Rams but just didnt get to see the fruits of his labor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wppete Posted October 21, 2018 Share Posted October 21, 2018 30 minutes ago, CookieG said: Ego. Agree with this ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
87168 Posted October 21, 2018 Share Posted October 21, 2018 only the bad ones do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted October 21, 2018 Share Posted October 21, 2018 1 minute ago, BillsfanAZ said: That is because Fischer did a good job drafting for the Rams but just didnt get to see the fruits of his labor. Sure so again Chicago? Indy? OLD School coaches like Gruden and McD know nothing more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted October 21, 2018 Share Posted October 21, 2018 8 minutes ago, MAJBobby said: Did a sell off occur in Rams, Chi? Philly? Colts? New adaptive coaches can perform with what is on the roster Colts are 2-5 Chi has Tribisky Rams had Goff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted October 21, 2018 Share Posted October 21, 2018 (edited) 38 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said: Lack of vision and an abundance of ego. I will add a lack of adaptability.........that's been the first sign of failure for the Buffalo hires. Not sure if that's Gruden's issue but we did find out back in the day he was kind've a one trick pony and he wasn't able to see out his attempt at a re-build in Tampa. You really need to be able to make good use of what you already have on the roster when you inherit it. Gutting your roster *can* work though..........Chip Kelly did it and thanks to some efficient GM work by Howie Roseman it worked out great for the Doug Pederson regime. If Beane was half as efficient this Bills team would be better than last years team.......not worse. Edited October 21, 2018 by BADOLBILZ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lfod Posted October 21, 2018 Share Posted October 21, 2018 It's because the roster they inherited is the same one that got the last coaches fired. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warcodered Posted October 21, 2018 Share Posted October 21, 2018 10 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said: The previous regime managed to be consistently mediocre. Should be able to tweak that with a few improvements . Why do people believe you have to be the worst in the league before you can be any good ? I don't think that's the thought process behind that. If you're making cap space to reinvest in different players/positions to fit in a different scheme then things will probably be pretty rough until you've gotten that space back and reused it. While you might be able find a less extreme way of doing that I think it's important to remember one of the best/cheapest ways to refill a roster with talent is the draft which gives you better picks if you put out a worse performance. So yes maybe you could of slowly made changes and gained more steady improvement but you could also decided to make some sudden changes take a beating and make the right choices to come back swinging. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted October 21, 2018 Share Posted October 21, 2018 3 minutes ago, ShadyBillsFan said: Colts are 2-5 Chi has Tribisky Rams had Goff So then not all coaches fire sale their teams they take over. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted October 21, 2018 Share Posted October 21, 2018 Most people (and in this case, football coaches) aren't very creative/adaptable. Belichick has proven over and over that he's one of the few that can adapt his systems to the players he has available. Wade was able to do it with his defenses. I remember them talking to Brian Cox about his stint with the Patriots. Belichick KNEW Cox couldn't cover a bed in man-to-man, so he used him almost exclusively on running downs and either blitzed him or had him play a soft zone on the passing plays he was on the field for. There was a great article on Sean McVay before he ever coached a game. He has basically turned the NFL on its collective head because he refuses to adhere to the old norms. The Rams are finally playing to the talent level of that roster because of it. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gobills1212 Posted October 21, 2018 Share Posted October 21, 2018 Why dont they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlgarsh Posted October 21, 2018 Share Posted October 21, 2018 32 minutes ago, billsherd said: So the last coach doesn't get all the credit if they win. The only reason Gruden was in Tampa so long was that he won a Super Bowl with Dungy's team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted October 21, 2018 Share Posted October 21, 2018 41 minutes ago, major said: Heard today that Jon Gruden has a two year plan to completely overhaul the raiders roster to bring in his own players. Why do coaches do this (our own included)? I’ve seen this done in my profession as well and it rarely works. I know some answers will revolve around new schemes and new players. But it seems to be more of an ego trip, in my opinion. So why do you think they do this? Ego and/or a fear of failure; both of which drives people to their comfort zone. Hence the 'I'm a 3-4 coach so let me start by getting rid of all these good 4-3 players I inherited' mindset. The same mentality also drives the 'by the book' decision making (punting on 4th and inches at mid-field), which is most evident in baseball ('My 7th inning guy just retired the side on six pitches, but I'm going to pull him because he's not my 8th inning guy'). Yes it's maddening and yes it happens in all walks of sports and management. After we sold my last company to a big public company, they pushed out the founder/CEO and brought in their own CEO. Over the next year or so she kicked out 80% of the management team and brought in all her own people. None of them (including her) knew a thing about the business or the industry. 3 years and tens of millions in operating losses (that weren't there previously) , they sold the company off for tens of millions less than they paid for it. Oh well, another dead cap hit. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatdrinks Posted October 21, 2018 Share Posted October 21, 2018 13 minutes ago, Warcodered said: I don't think that's the thought process behind that. If you're making cap space to reinvest in different players/positions to fit in a different scheme then things will probably be pretty rough until you've gotten that space back and reused it. While you might be able find a less extreme way of doing that I think it's important to remember one of the best/cheapest ways to refill a roster with talent is the draft which gives you better picks if you put out a worse performance. So yes maybe you could of slowly made changes and gained more steady improvement but you could also decided to make some sudden changes take a beating and make the right choices to come back swinging. Good players can be found all over the draft. The trouble with a complete teardown of a roster is time taken to reload. Coaches don’t get 5 years to succeed, and it shouldn’t take that long if you keep some quality elements of an existing team and work around them. The current FOs plan is doomed to fail because it depends on being much better than the historical average at drafting players. If they hit on a good amount of them ( track record is mixed at best right now) they’ll still run out of time. We all know what the methods of improvement are. The draft is only so many rounds and they are at an extreme disadvantage for attracting FA offensive players. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted October 21, 2018 Share Posted October 21, 2018 11 minutes ago, jlgarsh said: The only reason Gruden was in Tampa so long was that he won a Super Bowl with Dungy's team. Too bad the badly overrated Dungy couldn't win with his own team. 9-7 under Dungy, 12-4 and a SB title under Gruden. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted October 21, 2018 Share Posted October 21, 2018 Probably the only thing that could move me to a “Bills vacation” would be Gruden as HC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vorpma Posted October 21, 2018 Share Posted October 21, 2018 Or maybe, just maybe, the team that the new HC has been brought into just has not been successful (Bills 2000 - 2016) and it needs overhaul; of course that means (gasp) fan favorites! If you have a new HC it means you have failed! Man this is not rocket science but we try hard to make it that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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