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Denver listening to trade offers for Demaryious Thomas


YoloinOhio

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2 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

 

I love Emmanuel Sanders

 

I do too. The problem I see is that he is more of a slot guy and the Bills have a couple of those. What they don't have is a boundary WR who stretch the field, make catches, and open the Offense. I see Thomas on the down-slope of his career and I just think the Bills can do better given his age. If this was Thomas two years ago, it'd make sense, but where this team is going and how they're rebuilding, I don't see it.

 

Now Amari Cooper on the other hand....sign me up.  

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46 minutes ago, BigBuff423 said:

 

I do too. The problem I see is that he is more of a slot guy and the Bills have a couple of those. What they don't have is a boundary WR who stretch the field, make catches, and open the Offense. I see Thomas on the down-slope of his career and I just think the Bills can do better given his age. If this was Thomas two years ago, it'd make sense, but where this team is going and how they're rebuilding, I don't see it.

 

Now Amari Cooper on the other hand....sign me up.  

They are rebuilding the offense but i don’t think that needs to be or should be all rookies. So if it’s a 5th rd pick for DT (salary dump) I would do it to give Allen some vet WR help. He’s not nearly done, he may be post 30 but it doesn’t mean he can’t help this offense. They will have no money allocated to the WR position once KB is gone. Not sure they can do better than DT in FA - who is coming here by choice? I’d rather have cooper too due to his age but you need his side to agree to an extension before trading him, and we don’t know if they will given this qb situation. Plus it’s going to be a higher pick. I’m just looking at the reality of the situation. 

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5 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

They are rebuilding the offense but i don’t think that needs to be or should be all rookies. So if it’s a 5th rd pick for DT (salary dump) I would do it to give Allen some vet WR help. He’s not nearly done, he may be post 30 but it doesn’t mean he can’t help this offense. They will have no money allocated to the WR position once KB is gone. Not sure they can do better than DT in FA - who is coming here by choice? I’d rather have cooper too due to his age but you need his side to agree to an extension before trading him, and we don’t know if they will given this qb situation. Plus it’s going to be a higher pick. I’m just looking at the reality of the situation. 

 

This is what I've been saying for weeks Yolo

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2 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

They are rebuilding the offense but i don’t think that needs to be or should be all rookies. So if it’s a 5th rd pick for DT (salary dump) I would do it to give Allen some vet WR help. He’s not nearly done, he may be post 30 but it doesn’t mean he can’t help this offense. They will have no money allocated to the WR position once KB is gone. Not sure they can do better than DT in FA - who is coming here by choice? I’d rather have cooper too due to his age but you need his side to agree to an extension before trading him, and we don’t know if they will given this qb situation. Plus it’s going to be a higher pick. I’m just looking at the reality of the situation. 

 

If it's just for a 5th, I'm not turning it away given Buffalo has two of them, but I suppose I should say that Thomas should be the consolation prize. And, I think we could argue that trading picks for proven players on the Offensive side of the ball, might actually make more sense. It's sort of the Patriots model and while I may hate the dark lord that is BB, he did make a good point as to why they've conducted business that way for the last five to seven years. Simply put he said with the CBA it's nearly impossible to get the practice time and work the Rookies and young players the way they need to in order to make them NFL ready / capable. 

 

With Allen in mind, I think he is far better served being surrounded by experience than getting more Rookies. So, while I think getting Defensive FAs to come to Buffalo won't be terribly difficult given how good the Defense has been under McD, I agree that getting FA Offensive guys will prove to be very hard no matter how much money you throw at them and we've seen how Beane feels about bloated salary. To that end, I would make the argument that using this trade deadline as their means to Drafting Offensive talent. Raiders are in the selling business now, so I would trade quite a bit for Carr, Cooper and Conley as it helps in all three critical areas. I would also trade for DT if he can be had for the 5th or less we mentioned. 

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7 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

They are rebuilding the offense but i don’t think that needs to be or should be all rookies. So if it’s a 5th rd pick for DT (salary dump) I would do it to give Allen some vet WR help. He’s not nearly done, he may be post 30 but it doesn’t mean he can’t help this offense. They will have no money allocated to the WR position once KB is gone. Not sure they can do better than DT in FA - who is coming here by choice? I’d rather have cooper too due to his age but you need his side to agree to an extension before trading him, and we don’t know if they will given this qb situation. Plus it’s going to be a higher pick. I’m just looking at the reality of the situation. 

Correct.  You are not getting a player who would be more integral for Allen's development in the fifth or sixth round.

 

The goal is not "Trade for DT so he can be the #1 WR when Allen wins MVP in 2 years."  The goal is "Trade for DT so Allen has somebody to throw to while trying to learn how to play QB."

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Just now, mattynh said:

And when he is here getting 2-3 looks a game and drops a couple passes, what will people say?  "We dont have any wr's"


QB's make WR's

WR's dont make QB's

Get a QB first.

I'm not sure you heard, but we drafted this kid out of Wyoming.  Huge hands, #7 overall.  It was a whole big thing.

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Just now, mattynh said:

And when he is here getting 2-3 looks a game and drops a couple passes, what will people say?  "We dont have any wr's"


QB's make WR's

WR's dont make QB's

Get a QB first.

 

They did. He's injured. And if you say Allen isn't the QB, the entire Bills organization disagrees with you....for now. And, until you get him guys to throw to, you won't really know what you have. Tyrod had Watkins, Wood, Clay, Harvin and Hogan....we knew what he was after the first year - or at least most of us did - but with Allen. 1. He's a Rookie 2. He's raw and needs work and we all knew this, namely the Bills 3. He's had almost no one to pass the ball to 4. Running game was poor until recently. 

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2 minutes ago, BigBuff423 said:

 

They did. He's injured. And if you say Allen isn't the QB, the entire Bills organization disagrees with you....for now. And, until you get him guys to throw to, you won't really know what you have. Tyrod had Watkins, Wood, Clay, Harvin and Hogan....we knew what he was after the first year - or at least most of us did - but with Allen. 1. He's a Rookie 2. He's raw and needs work and we all knew this, namely the Bills 3. He's had almost no one to pass the ball to 4. Running game was poor until recently. 

 

People got crazy after we signed Harvin who hadn't done anything in years.  He continued that and then it was Woods was just a blocker, Hogan was a lacrosse player......no one saw the talent then.   I am not saying the guys today measure up to those guys but they woudl be better if the QB could get them the ball on time.   Right now the QB (Allen) cant do that, these guys are not 32 because of the WR's its because of the QB.  A competent QB would have the offense performing better.  Maybe Allen needs to grow and need time/experience but to place all the blame of his lack of production on WR's is nonsense.

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7 minutes ago, mattynh said:

 

People got crazy after we signed Harvin who hadn't done anything in years.  He continued that and then it was Woods was just a blocker, Hogan was a lacrosse player......no one saw the talent then.   I am not saying the guys today measure up to those guys but they woudl be better if the QB could get them the ball on time.   Right now the QB (Allen) cant do that, these guys are not 32 because of the WR's its because of the QB.  A competent QB would have the offense performing better.  Maybe Allen needs to grow and need time/experience but to place all the blame of his lack of production on WR's is nonsense.

So what?  Allen has to improve, so don't improve around him?

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6 minutes ago, mattynh said:

 

People got crazy after we signed Harvin who hadn't done anything in years.  He continued that and then it was Woods was just a blocker, Hogan was a lacrosse player......no one saw the talent then.   I am not saying the guys today measure up to those guys but they woudl be better if the QB could get them the ball on time.   Right now the QB (Allen) cant do that, these guys are not 32 because of the WR's its because of the QB.  A competent QB would have the offense performing better.  Maybe Allen needs to grow and need time/experience but to place all the blame of his lack of production on WR's is nonsense.

 

I don't know that anyone is placing "all the blame" on WRs, but it is very hard to know what he can / can't do when for the most part, WRs aren't getting separation. Take yesterday's game - Anderson threw an INT that was intended for KB over the middle and while initially it looked all on Anderson (and sure some of it was), one of the announcers and I can't remember who - said KB didn't even make a legit attempt and planting and digging toward the middle of the field. I'm not expert, but as soon as the INT happened I saw KB basically loafed toward the middle. It was as if he ran hard up to his break and then as soon as he broke toward the middle, he put it at 3/4 speed. If he had run hard and kept running, maybe it would have still been intercepted or maybe it would have been caught or maybe at the least, KB could have gotten a hand in there to keep the INT from happening. Either way, his lack of effort showed in live t.v., let alone when you have the benefit of slo-mo and the announcer saying as much (I think it was Archeletta?). 

 

Either way - Allen needs to get better, but so does is supporting cast. 

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Just now, mattynh said:

 

Not with an aging overpriced vet.  It wont change anything this year.  The QB has to be able to read and process defenses pre and post snap first.

What about next year?

 

Do you think having a WR that can reward a QB for making the correct read would help?  Do you think having a WR that gets open as the first read helps Allen find open guys?  Do you think a WR who can catch helps Allen stay on the field and develop?  Do you think there's a reason most young QB's didn't become good throwing to the Andre Holmes' of the world?

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1 minute ago, BringBackOrton said:

What about next year?

 

Do you think having a WR that can reward a QB for making the correct read would help?  Do you think having a WR that gets open as the first read helps Allen find open guys?  Do you think a WR who can catch helps Allen stay on the field and develop?  Do you think there's a reason most young QB's didn't become good throwing to the Andre Holmes' of the world?

 

There have been plenty of players open where the QB is not seeing it fast enough to react.  There was a good breakdown of this in the GB game that I waw online.  Players not getting separation is a problem but a lot of times defenses play zone and guys are open, its a matter of reading/anticipation and throwing a ball that can be caught by your guy even in traffic.  Im not looking for perfection or anything just signs of life like you see from Darnold and Mayfield.   Do they have all pro WR's running around out there?

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1 minute ago, mattynh said:

 

There have been plenty of players open where the QB is not seeing it fast enough to react.  There was a good breakdown of this in the GB game that I waw online.  Players not getting separation is a problem but a lot of times defenses play zone and guys are open, its a matter of reading/anticipation and throwing a ball that can be caught by your guy even in traffic.  Im not looking for perfection or anything just signs of life like you see from Darnold and Mayfield.   Do they have all pro WR's running around out there?

Compared to the Bills unit, unequivocally, yes.

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22 hours ago, K-GunJimKelly12 said:

There are plenty of examples of late round picks that have become really good players.  The more you have, the more likely you are to find a good player.  Your stance that they are borderline meaningless is plain foolish.

 

Also you are just throwing a bunch of stuff out there that I never said and trying to apply it to me because your argument is stupid.  I am totally fine with trading for receivers that fit in to the plan timeline wise.  You brought up the Rams and Chiefs as examples on how to build a team which I agree is the right way to go.  They all went after receivers who are in their primes.  I am totally cool with that.  What I don't want is to trade picks for guys that are on the decline and will be done in a year or two.  You are making up things that I never said or alluded to and trying to use them to defend your argument.  You look like a clown.

The fatal flaw in your logic is the group making the pick.  In a vacuum sure those late picks could be valuable, but I have 0 faith the front office can identify talent on the offensive side of the ball.  Let alone a late round pick vs an established player with experience. 

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