Structural Organizational Issues

[gjv001]

4 hours ago, nedboy7 said:

 

Yeah. My taxes really went down with the orange clown. And hey the deficit is the lowest  it’s been. I suggest you live in reality and not Fox News. 

What does your response have to do with the Bills being at a tax disadvantage with free agents?  Get with the topic.

[billsfan714]

10 hours ago, Berky1010 said:

The long standing issue of attracting top tier talent to Buffalo is going to continue to put Buffalo at a disadvantage versus other markets. It comes down to a number of factors that work against us:

 

1. Winning Culture: All else equal, Buffalo will always lose in this department based on our history

 

2. Taxes: NY personal income tax rates and changes in tax law make employment in Buffalo extremely expensive for high earners. They will always prefer places like Florida and Texas where there are low or no-taxes. We will always have to overpay. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-10-19/nfl-teams-risk-talent-drain-in-high-tax-states-as-breaks-curbed

 

3. Location: I love WNY and there will always be people who will be attracted to the region. However, top prospects in the prime of their career trying to build a brand will not come here. NYC, LA, South Florida and Dallas will continue to be more premier markets for these players.

 

You can argue that it has largely been this way for decades, but the media prominence and brand of the NFL is much larger than what it was when we made our run in the 90s (and even then players complained about coming here). If we are going to win, it is going to take master execution in free agency and even moreso in the draft. We will need to try and lock up players ahead of their contract expirations. Otherwise, contracts like we gave underperforming talent like Mario Williams and Marcell Dareus will set an organization like ours back for years.

So operate like the Steelers have for decades.   And the Steelers have never been into free agency a whole lot.    So it can be done.

[Straight Hucklebuck]

I think one of the biggest issues is convincing FAs to come to this offense and this QB situation.

 

The Bills are bad again at QB. 

 

Not only do you not get the big city, you don’t get any track record of success. 

 

This is where the Bills usually drag Kelly & Thurman our to help create hype, but the Bills have taken a lot of egg on their face for Peterman. 

[stuvian]

One more playoff appearance this year or next will erase the culture objection. 

 

We've seen that spending big on free agents guarantees nothing. Adding veterans is something you do when you are nipping on the heels of a Superbowl. The Pats only bring in bargain basement guys. The Steelers never get into spending wars. The chronic overspenders (Bears, Dolphins, Raiders) never win.

 

We've managed to retain a great player like Kyle Williams who stays by choice. Not everyone wants to spend weekends in Times Square.

 

The Packers are the right comparison. Get the QB right and all else flows from that.  

[Best Player Available]

11 hours ago, dollars 2 donuts said:

I agree to a degree.  Additionally, the piss poor offense and QB situation isn't necessarily going to be convincing FAs to take a discount to come here.

 

However, not everyone can play in Florida and Texas and you really can get a nice home here.

 

$750,000 in New England or San Francisco gets you a 1600 sf mid-century with 2 foot wide stairs.

 

There are no "homes" in SF at 750 K. 

 

[zonabb]

9 hours ago, gjv001 said:

Stop voting for liberals who want the money you earned.

Great hot take, spot on, completely original, how did you come up with it?  I mean, it's completely wrong, but its red hot. You've been fooled and are ignorantly arrogant enough to come and try to show it off what you learned on your coach watching Fox. You're the idiot in the Harvard bar in Good Will Hunting merely regurgitated facts without a single opinion of your own and surely none you could back with actual empirical evidence. Read a book, maybe start with an old edition of Mankiw's Principle of Economics you can find for cheap online. 

 

The issue IS NOT, despite what you've been brainwashed into believing, that someone takes your money. Dweebs like you are fine when taxes you pay cover (warning economics term coming) public goods like defense, which causes a raging erections for GOP war hawks like yourself. You're totally cool with getting taxed to death for buying guns and spending more than the next 9 countries in the world on defense combined, even if it means running  a deficit and even if one more gun and one dollar more in taxation is not necessary. You're also cool with your money being spent on education, or maybe not, I'm not sure you made it past 8th grade. 

You're implication, when using the tropes "liberal" and "want money you earned" is that your money is used on people you don't like and therefore do not want to help. Likely, you mean the poor, disabled, unemployed, etc. Simply, you don't want your money going to someone who doesn't deserve it. 

 

That should also mean, but I guarantee it doesn't because people like you are not only morons but also hypocrites, that you're not OK with corporate handouts like Elon Musk got ($750m in NYS taxpayer dollars to built him a factory) or is that cool because he's successful and we should open our wallets to help billionaires and not the poor? How about our annual stadium subsidy to Pegula? Cool with that right? 

 

You can save your indefensible rhetoric and take it to some Proud Boys website where it'll be appreciated sans (means 'without' so you don't have to look it up, it's not in your comic books) proof or evidence.

[cba fan]

16 minutes ago, zonabb said:

Great hot take, spot on, completely original, how did you come up with it?  I mean, it's completely wrong, but its red hot. You've been fooled and are ignorantly arrogant enough to come and try to show it off what you learned on your coach watching Fox. You're the idiot in the Harvard bar in Good Will Hunting merely regurgitated facts without a single opinion of your own and surely none you could back with actual empirical evidence. Read a book, maybe start with an old edition of Mankiw's Principle of Economics you can find for cheap online. 

 

The issue IS NOT, despite what you've been brainwashed into believing, that someone takes your money. Dweebs like you are fine when taxes you pay cover (warning economics term coming) public goods like defense, which causes a raging erections for GOP war hawks like yourself. You're totally cool with getting taxed to death for buying guns and spending more than the next 9 countries in the world on defense combined, even if it means running  a deficit and even if one more gun and one dollar more in taxation is not necessary. You're also cool with your money being spent on education, or maybe not, I'm not sure you made it past 8th grade. 

You're implication, when using the tropes "liberal" and "want money you earned" is that your money is used on people you don't like and therefore do not want to help. Likely, you mean the poor, disabled, unemployed, etc. Simply, you don't want your money going to someone who doesn't deserve it. 

 

That should also mean, but I guarantee it doesn't because people like you are not only morons but also hypocrites, that you're not OK with corporate handouts like Elon Musk got ($750m in NYS taxpayer dollars to built him a factory) or is that cool because he's successful and we should open our wallets to help billionaires and not the poor? How about our annual stadium subsidy to Pegula? Cool with that right? 

 

You can save your indefensible rhetoric and take it to some Proud Boys website where it'll be appreciated sans (means 'without' so you don't have to look it up, it's not in your comic books) proof or evidence.

Liberals and Dems answer to every need is:

 

raise taxes.

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

Cleveland didn't seem to have much of any problem attracting some quality players this past off-season.  As was mentioned, it all comes down to money.

 

Also don't see the likelihood of too many off season signings anyway. Likely will go after a vet backup QB, but in the end they will sign with whoever has much interest.  Maybe also a backup/#2 CB.  Top WR likely to come via the draft, likely try to sign some WR depth, but at that level not hard to sign.  Assuming Tellier after a year with the team is ready to move to one of the guard spots, I see the teams biggest FA need to sign the top center and/or guard, maybe to the OP's point, the team does over pay some there to get that guy(s).  Use a 2nd round pick on a RT, sign some depth players too and you've solved your O-line .  Teams don't need and more importantly can't afford five all pro line man.  RB comes via the draft, you can get a rookie in the 3rd round who can run for 1000 yards.  IMO the easiest position for a rookie to excel at is RB and the toughest may be WR as not matter how good the WR is, he still needs to get on the same page as the QB.  Also feel WR needs a year of getting physically stronger to compete at the top NFL level.

 

Defense doesn't need to fill many starting roles, so not much need to sign top level FA players there.

[Buffalo Barbarian]

10 hours ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

...virtually no escaping bud......send it in and they'll waste it......................

 

Seven U.S. states forgo individual income taxes as of 2018: Alaska, Florida, Nevada, South Dakota, Texas, Washington and Wyoming. Residents of New Hampshire and Tennessee are also spared from handing over an extra chunk of their paycheck, though they do pay tax on dividends and income from investments.

 

The 10 highest income tax states for 2018 are:

 

• California 13.3%
• Hawaii 11%
• Oregon 9.9%
• Minnesota 9.85%
• Iowa 8.98%
• New Jersey 8.97%
• Vermont 8.95%
• District of Columbia 8.95%
• New York 8.82%
• Wisconsin 7.65%

 

hey we aren't number 2 anymore

 

 

Edited October 20, 2018 by Buffalo Barbarian

[Ol Dirty B]

16 hours ago, Berky1010 said:

The long standing issue of attracting top tier talent to Buffalo is going to continue to put Buffalo at a disadvantage versus other markets. It comes down to a number of factors that work against us:

 

1. Winning Culture: All else equal, Buffalo will always lose in this department based on our history

 

2. Taxes: NY personal income tax rates and changes in tax law make employment in Buffalo extremely expensive for high earners. They will always prefer places like Florida and Texas where there are low or no-taxes. We will always have to overpay. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-10-19/nfl-teams-risk-talent-drain-in-high-tax-states-as-breaks-curbed

 

3. Location: I love WNY and there will always be people who will be attracted to the region. However, top prospects in the prime of their career trying to build a brand will not come here. NYC, LA, South Florida and Dallas will continue to be more premier markets for these players.

 

You can argue that it has largely been this way for decades, but the media prominence and brand of the NFL is much larger than what it was when we made our run in the 90s (and even then players complained about coming here). If we are going to win, it is going to take master execution in free agency and even moreso in the draft. We will need to try and lock up players ahead of their contract expirations. Otherwise, contracts like we gave underperforming talent like Mario Williams and Marcell Dareus will set an organization like ours back for years.

 

You're the first person I've ever had open my mind up to these theories. 

[uticaclub]

12 hours ago, LFC24 said:

This is one of the most level headed threads ive seen on this forum

 

so much better than all the delusional fans thinking this team is set for the future just b/c we have high cap space. 

 

Cap space means nothing for a team like ours. We are a historically mediocre team with little talent, not much outlook of success, small market, and play in a state with massive taxes. 

What top level WR is going to want to play with no QB?

[dollars 2 donuts]

9 hours ago, Best Player Available said:

There are no "homes" in SF at 750 K. 

 

 

Nice.

 

You nailed it, BPA.

[Pirate Angel]

21 hours ago, Berky1010 said:

The long standing issue of attracting top tier talent to Buffalo is going to continue to put Buffalo at a disadvantage versus other markets. It comes down to a number of factors that work against us:

 

1. Winning Culture: All else equal, Buffalo will always lose in this department based on our history

 

2. Taxes: NY personal income tax rates and changes in tax law make employment in Buffalo extremely expensive for high earners. They will always prefer places like Florida and Texas where there are low or no-taxes. We will always have to overpay. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-10-19/nfl-teams-risk-talent-drain-in-high-tax-states-as-breaks-curbed

 

3. Location: I love WNY and there will always be people who will be attracted to the region. However, top prospects in the prime of their career trying to build a brand will not come here. NYC, LA, South Florida and Dallas will continue to be more premier markets for these players.

 

You can argue that it has largely been this way for decades, but the media prominence and brand of the NFL is much larger than what it was when we made our run in the 90s (and even then players complained about coming here). If we are going to win, it is going to take master execution in free agency and even moreso in the draft. We will need to try and lock up players ahead of their contract expirations. Otherwise, contracts like we gave underperforming talent like Mario Williams and Marcell Dareus will set an organization like ours back for years.

Massachusetts is highly taxed also, most every player is willing or wanting to play there...land a franchise QB and they will come

[BarleyNY]

21 hours ago, dollars 2 donuts said:

I agree to a degree.  Additionally, the piss poor offense and QB situation isn't necessarily going to be convincing FAs to take a discount to come here.

 

However, not everyone can play in Florida and Texas and you really can get a nice home here.

 

$750,000 in New England or San Francisco gets you a 1600 sf mid-century with 2 foot wide stairs.

 

 

I used to live in Strongsville, OH which is a suburb where many Browns players and staff lived.  It’s definitely true that some players really enjoyed the cost of living and lifestyle of places like B-lo and the Cleve.  You’re more likely to get family men looking for stable places to raise their families than the younger, single partiers though. IMO that’s not a bad thing. How many high priced free agents went to Miami to party and semi-retire?  It’s much more important to build a winner. That way you don’t have to overpay for FAs and you can even get some discounts. That all starts by drafting well. 

[gjv001]

10 hours ago, zonabb said:

Great hot take, spot on, completely original, how did you come up with it?  I mean, it's completely wrong, but its red hot. You've been fooled and are ignorantly arrogant enough to come and try to show it off what you learned on your coach watching Fox. You're the idiot in the Harvard bar in Good Will Hunting merely regurgitated facts without a single opinion of your own and surely none you could back with actual empirical evidence. Read a book, maybe start with an old edition of Mankiw's Principle of Economics you can find for cheap online. 

 

The issue IS NOT, despite what you've been brainwashed into believing, that someone takes your money. Dweebs like you are fine when taxes you pay cover (warning economics term coming) public goods like defense, which causes a raging erections for GOP war hawks like yourself. You're totally cool with getting taxed to death for buying guns and spending more than the next 9 countries in the world on defense combined, even if it means running  a deficit and even if one more gun and one dollar more in taxation is not necessary. You're also cool with your money being spent on education, or maybe not, I'm not sure you made it past 8th grade. 

You're implication, when using the tropes "liberal" and "want money you earned" is that your money is used on people you don't like and therefore do not want to help. Likely, you mean the poor, disabled, unemployed, etc. Simply, you don't want your money going to someone who doesn't deserve it. 

 

That should also mean, but I guarantee it doesn't because people like you are not only morons but also hypocrites, that you're not OK with corporate handouts like Elon Musk got ($750m in NYS taxpayer dollars to built him a factory) or is that cool because he's successful and we should open our wallets to help billionaires and not the poor? How about our annual stadium subsidy to Pegula? Cool with that right? 

 

You can save your indefensible rhetoric and take it to some Proud Boys website where it'll be appreciated sans (means 'without' so you don't have to look it up, it's not in your comic books) proof or evidence.

Nice ramble. But what does your ramble have to do with the Bills being at a tax disadvantage with free agents? Get with the topic.

[eanyills]

20 hours ago, The Real Buffalo Joe said:

Good point. That's why New York teams like the Yankees never get top players. That's why they would want to go to a tax haven like California. And it's the reason why smaller cities like us, an Pittsburgh will never get big name players or win championships. Also, IN before this gets moved to PPP.

I've seen this happen once. Maybe someone on this site could put a different section here specifically for users to discuss things like Politics, Polls, and Pundits. That'd be neat.

 

 

The Yankees play in New York City. That’s a little different than playing in Buffalo.

 

That’s the premier media and nightlife capital of this country. If you want to build a brand/persona/become a social icon, that’s where to be.

[Punching Bag]

21 hours ago, gjv001 said:

Stop voting for liberals who want the money you earned.

Keep politics out of thread,

[gjv001]

1 hour ago, Limeaid said:

Keep politics out of thread,

Unfortunately, the reason the Bills are at a tax disadvantage with free agents is political. Sorry. 

[RevWarRifleman]

On 10/19/2018 at 12:25 PM, ctk232 said:

Green Bay has always been a comparison market for Buffalo. While different in many ways, including winning culture and history, plenty of players have developed brands in that market. Has nothing to do with the area, just has to do with winning. Win football games, players will come play.

Agree here! It's a simple formula that has stood the test of time. Win ball games, players will want to come, and stay.

[iinii]

On 10/19/2018 at 11:02 AM, gjv001 said:

Stop voting for liberals who want the money you earned.

 Keep your political views out. That can of worms is too big and everyone’s differing opinions are just that. The one percent don’t pay taxes like everyone else. So please don’t cry any tears for Pegs or Kraft. Their healthcare is fine.