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TheStateofWarshingtun

Daboll vs Hackett

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6 games in... you have to pick between what you’ve seen from daboll over 6 weeks or what you saw from two years of Hackett coaching.

 

 

My opinion is that I’d like to see Daboll with some more talented players and with a more tenured Allen. Especially a WR that can truly stretch the field. I do have legitimate concern this offense will still struggle even when more puzzle pieces are in place. 

 

 

if you dont pick.. well then you are stuck being a jets fan. 

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Hackett was able to take a Bortles led offense to the AFC championship. 

 

so I guess Hackett for me. Him and Marrone really have something going. 

Edited by 87168

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I'm not sure why I have to choose between Necco Wafers and Candy Corn in a world where Reeses peanut butter cups, Snickers, Kit Kats, or Nerds are otherwise available.

 

Is there some stated law that this organization must make bad hires?

 

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Fadingpain said:

I'm not sure why I have to choose between Necco Wafers and Candy Corn in a world where Reeses peanut butter cups, Snickers, Kit Kats, or Nerds are otherwise available.

 

Is there some stated law that this organization must make bad hires?

 

 

 

It seems like that was in Ralph’s will before he passed away

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34 minutes ago, Fadingpain said:

I'm not sure why I have to choose between Necco Wafers and Candy Corn in a world where Reeses peanut butter cups, Snickers, Kit Kats, or Nerds are otherwise available.

 

Is there some stated law that this organization must make bad hires?

 

 

 

LOL.....😄

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Daboll. There’s more of an unknown factor with him, having seen Hackett’s offense for 2yrs and Daboll’s for less than 1/2 a year. 

 

I just remember how predictable Hackett’s offense was here. It got to the point where the TV announcers were predicting the next play (it made it easier to predict since they brought Lee Smith in a TE on most run plays, and IIRC Chandler on most passing plays). Run, run, pass on 3rd down. Repeat endlessly... lol. 

 

But it’s honestly hard to truly judge eitherwith the talent they’ve both had to work with at QB... 

 

Daboll has been severely limited in what plays he can call this season. Allen isn’t seeing his open receivers a lot of times, either. I’ve watched enough all-22 film breakdowns now, where Daboll calls the right play to beat the defense, guys get open and Allen just isn’t seeing them or even looking in their direction. I’d like to see what Daboll can do with a more experienced Allen. Hopefully in the mean time Derek Anderson will afford him the opportunity to better execute his offense (once he shakes off the rust, anyway...). 

 

Hackett was limited in a similar way in his time here. 

 

I think both are better OCs than what they showed in their time in buffalo. But I’d go with Daboll off of what I know right now. 

 

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Name me ANY offensive coordinator who could make this offense threaten anyone.  Shady is still very good but is not a guy who can open holes on his own.  He really misses Wood and Incognito.  The Bills have no other offensive threats.  None.  No WRs fast enough to stretch the field.  No TEs other teams even bother to cover.  A patchwork O line.  And QBs who are downgrades from a rookie who's lucky to break 100 passing yards in a game.  

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14 minutes ago, Utah John said:

Name me ANY offensive coordinator who could make this offense threaten anyone.  Shady is still very good but is not a guy who can open holes on his own.  He really misses Wood and Incognito.  The Bills have no other offensive threats.  None.  No WRs fast enough to stretch the field.  No TEs other teams even bother to cover.  A patchwork O line.  And QBs who are downgrades from a rookie who's lucky to break 100 passing yards in a game.  

 

 

Chan Gailey managed to produce some offense out of replacement level players for a while .  Maybe he could have worked some magic on our guys lol

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After Hackett coached EJ to "just run if your first option isn't there" I pretty much felt like I'd take someone who's never seen a football over Hackett. The Jaguars are what they are because they play good defense, typically have a solid run game and from time to time, Bortles gets a hot hand and has some nice games. 

 

Daboll wants to emulate New England, where they can basically run whatever kinda scheme they want based on their opponent for the week. It takes a lot to get to that point. I'd like to think he's using this season for trial and error and keeping the things they do well while trashing the things they aren't doing well and building up a foundation for an offensive identity. Once they have that down, then they can tweak it and try different things week to week. But I dunno if they'll ever really emulate what the Pats do because, well, there's only one Tom Brady. One week they're a downhill rushing team, the next they're a West Coast dink and dunk team, then they turn into a downfield air attack and sling it 45 times and run it only 8 or 10 times. You can do that when you have a QB that can really do it all.

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My opinion is that you haven't seen what Daboll is capable of yet because of the severe limitations that he has had at the QB position.  Not to mention, the weapons in the offense are non-existent. 

 

Until we see what he does with competent QB play, it is hard to evaluate him.  If Anderson comes in and immediately starts putting up 225+ yards a game, then there is reason to think there is something there.

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12 minutes ago, prissythecat said:

 

 

Chan Gailey managed to produce some offense out of replacement level players for a while .  Maybe he could have worked some magic on our guys lol

 

I'm also thinking Greg Roman could coax a good run game and middling pass game out of this team.  Match that with our monster D and we'd be right in this thing.

 

I'd go with Hackett.  Although our offense was bad, it wasn't nearly as bad as this what ever you want to call it.

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Just remember - previous coaching experience is not always an indicator if a coach is good.  Case in point - Bill Belichick - I'm sure there were many Patriot fans talking about how they were getting a losing head coach (36-44 in Cleveland) who was a good defensive coordinator - another bust... 

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49 minutes ago, BillsFan4 said:

Daboll. There’s more of an unknown factor with him, having seen Hackett’s offense for 2yrs and Daboll’s for less than 1/2 a year. 

 

 

 

...hard to gauge his learning curve despite his resume' unless someone wants to do an in-depth analysis of each career stop, actual duties, personnel and HC, etc.....even if he had previous OC title(s), what does that mean?.....Marrone was the previous OC for the Saints.....was he the bonafide OC or did he carry Payton's clipboard?.....weren't there expectations upon his OBD arrival and our offense because of his alleged pedigree?.....labels can be misleading without major digging IMO............

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2 hours ago, TheStateofWarshingtun said:

6 games in... you have to pick between what you’ve seen from daboll over 6 weeks or what you saw from two years of Hackett coaching.

 

 

My opinion is that I’d like to see Daboll with some more talented players and with a more tenured Allen. Especially a WR that can truly stretch the field. I do have legitimate concern this offense will still struggle even when more puzzle pieces are in place. 

 

 

if you dont pick.. well then you are stuck being a jets fan. 

ya think?

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I think Roman (or at least the Roman schemes) was the best recent OC for the Bills.  The offense produced based on his system with a below starting QB (Taylor).  I wonder how much better his offense would have been with a better QB.  Gailey also was able to get more out of a below average group of players on offense.  

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It's not really a fair comparison if you're looking at Hackett's tenure with the Bills versus Daboll's.  

 

Hackett was not an independent OC.   Players grumbled that he wanted to open things up but Marrone wouldn't let him.  I'd also argue, though, that Hackett had better players.

 

If I had a choice, I'd go with ALynn running Roman's run  concepts.   With our QB situation, we need to be able the run the ball but our OL isn't very good.  To compound matters, our only legit offensive weapon (Shady) needs space to do his best work and this OL doesn't create space.  

 

ALynn put up a lot of points with a mediocre OL and QB - though not this mediocre.  Gailey also did well with limited offensive talent but even that roster had more to work with than this one.

 

It's hard to judge Daboll because I think this squad would make any OC look incapable.  

 

 

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4 hours ago, TheStateofWarshingtun said:

6 games in... you have to pick between what you’ve seen from daboll over 6 weeks or what you saw from two years of Hackett coaching.

 

 

My opinion is that I’d like to see Daboll with some more talented players and with a more tenured Allen. Especially a WR that can truly stretch the field. I do have legitimate concern this offense will still struggle even when more puzzle pieces are in place. 

 

 

if you dont pick.. well then you are stuck being a jets fan. 

The both stink. Bring back Roman.

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3 hours ago, BillsFan4 said:

Daboll. There’s more of an unknown factor with him, having seen Hackett’s offense for 2yrs and Daboll’s for less than 1/2 a year. 

 

I just remember how predictable Hackett’s offense was here. It got to the point where the TV announcers were predicting the next play (it made it easier to predict since they brought Lee Smith in a TE on most run plays, and IIRC Chandler on most passing plays). Run, run, pass on 3rd down. Repeat endlessly... lol. 

 

But it’s honestly hard to truly judge eitherwith the talent they’ve both had to work with at QB... 

 

Daboll has been severely limited in what plays he can call this season. Allen isn’t seeing his open receivers a lot of times, either. I’ve watched enough all-22 film breakdowns now, where Daboll calls the right play to beat the defense, guys get open and Allen just isn’t seeing them or even looking in their direction. I’d like to see what Daboll can do with a more experienced Allen. Hopefully in the mean time Derek Anderson will afford him the opportunity to better execute his offense (once he shakes off the rust, anyway...). 

 

Hackett was limited in a similar way in his time here. 

 

I think both are better OCs than what they showed in their time in buffalo. But I’d go with Daboll off of what I know right now. 

 

There is no comparison besides results as a Bill between the two. 

none.

not at you, but the Op.

Hackett had zero NFL exp and his College Coaching under Marrone was suspect.

Daboll might have the similar challenges with being his first season with a new staff players etc.

 but that's it.

 

 

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6 hours ago, Fadingpain said:

I'm not sure why I have to choose between Necco Wafers and Candy Corn in a world where Reeses peanut butter cups, Snickers, Kit Kats, or Nerds are otherwise available.

 

Is there some stated law that this organization must make bad hires?

 

 

 

I agree with all of this but would substitute Nerds for Smarties or Bottlecaps.

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In retrospect Nate and marrone did a good job realizing Whaley stuck them with garbage with Manuel, getting an uninspired Orton to become serviceable after missing camp , getting a win out of Thad and an almost win from tuell. 

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2 hours ago, Charles Romes said:

In retrospect Nate and marrone did a good job realizing Whaley stuck them with garbage with Manuel, getting an uninspired Orton to become serviceable after missing camp , getting a win out of Thad and an almost win from tuell. 

It's early, but have Allen or Peterman shown themselves to be better than EJ? I'd say it is kind of a push so far.

Edited by Buftex

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The jury is still out on Daboll imo. When we upgrade the OL and the WR group in the offseason then I will be a bit more critical. Right now he's had Peterpick and a rookie trying to learn on the fly to work with. Anderson is a vet. Let's see how he does. There have been guys open in the passing game, but either OL doesn't hold up or the guys are simply being missed.  

 

Hackett is working with a superior group at the skill positions and his team has a decent OL. Without Fournette the struggles are starting to be evident. They also lost Cam Robinson, their best OT to injury. I felt like Hackett was bland and predictable here. The only reason we're even having this convo is because their team got hot at the right time last year and almost rode it to the SB. Other than that run Hackett has mostly been the same imo, only he's had Fournette and a top 3 defense making things appear to be different.  

Edited by H2o

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15 hours ago, Fadingpain said:

I'm not sure why I have to choose between Necco Wafers and Candy Corn in a world where Reeses peanut butter cups, Snickers, Kit Kats, or Nerds are otherwise available.

 

Is there some stated law that this organization must make bad hires?

 

 

 

This is much more polite, that the analogy I was going to make which is "which smells better, poodle poop or Labrador poop?"

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I find it amusing most fans were ready to run Hackett out of town in Buffalo and then he and Moron go to Jax with a great Defense, improved Offensive line and the 4th overall pick that is a stud RB to make it to the AFC Title game and know Hackett is pretty good. We all remember they had EJ Manuel in Buffalo right? We also remember that Moron's shtick got old with the local media, right? Hackett is the one who said they were going to run CJ Spiller "until he pukes".....Coughlin has made that team by building on what was already there and making some key acquisitions and Drafting. 

 

Daboll is trying to make hay with dog poo....let's see how Anderson does over the next couple weeks in Daboll's Offense. This week will be tough to judge since Anderson doesn't know the whole playbook, but by week 3, Anderson should have it down. Additionally, Daboll is dealing with a super green Rookie, WRs who either can't get separation or fail to be interested in playing for paycheck and an aging RB. Again, apples to oranges. Let's see how it goes over the next couple seasons. 

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In his time here, Hacket was not very good....he had to deal with the EJ fiasco.......but, his O was pretty non discript.  I see Dabolls O was more NFL like today, and, given even a few more horses, would have a good NFL O.   Of course, Daboll looks good next to Dennisen who was not a NFL caliber Coordinator imho.

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