mrags Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 3 minutes ago, GoBills808 said: We could continue this discussion elsewhere for sure. I appreciate your thoughts on it. I disagree with most of them. That’s fine. I’d like to know your expertise? I happen to be around murderers all day long. So I’m just curious what experience you have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 Is it a search for excuses or a search for cause so that maybe the next one can be prevented? Maybe crappy, abusive, molesting fathers have an unintended impact on society? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 6 minutes ago, mrags said: That’s fine. I’d like to know your expertise? I happen to be around murderers all day long. So I’m just curious what experience you have. I do not hang out with murderers all day long . No personal experience there. My father was a public defender in DC in the 70s. He taught criminal law and evidence for many years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Dude Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 I say you, he dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaywrizzo Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 4 hours ago, hondo in seattle said: On a thread somewhere, a fellow Bills fan said that CTE doesn't explain why Hernandez did what he did. Lots of NFL players get concussions. Most don't commit murder. Now we're starting to get the rest of the story. Hernandez didn't just suffer from CTE. He was beaten and abused as a child. It doesn't excuse his crimes. But it does help us understand them. https://www.cnn.com/2018/10/15/us/aaron-hernandez-spotlight/index.html How about we talk about Bills Football.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 18 minutes ago, GoBills808 said: We could continue this discussion elsewhere for sure. I appreciate your thoughts on it. I disagree with most of them. Bravo!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fadingpain Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 4 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: I really hate crap like this because why is it presented if it isn't intended as exculpatory? Far too many people are beaten or abused as children and do not become conscienceless murderous monsters. Child abuse doesn't explain what Hernandez did either. Suggesting that his abuse excuses his conduct is a legitimate idea. No one is suggesting his abuse justifies his actions. "Excuse" and "Justify" are important legal terms with two different meanings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrags Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 15 minutes ago, GoBills808 said: I do not hang out with murderers all day long . No personal experience there. My father was a public defender in DC in the 70s. He taught criminal law and evidence for many years. I never said anything about “hanging out” with murderers. But I am around them all day long at my job. Im sure your proud of your father and his successes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 2 minutes ago, mrags said: I never said anything about “hanging out” with murderers. But I am around them all day long at my job. Im sure your proud of your father and his successes. I am. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clyde Smith Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 So have I, but I never killed anyone...Yet! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punching Bag Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 5 hours ago, hondo in seattle said: On a thread somewhere, a fellow Bills fan said that CTE doesn't explain why Hernandez did what he did. Lots of NFL players get concussions. Most don't commit murder. Now we're starting to get the rest of the story. Hernandez didn't just suffer from CTE. He was beaten and abused as a child. It doesn't excuse his crimes. But it does help us understand them. https://www.cnn.com/2018/10/15/us/aaron-hernandez-spotlight/index.html Already a thread on Off the Wall for apologists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
COTC Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 Beaten and abused in prison also... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H2o Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 6 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: I really hate crap like this because why is it presented if it isn't intended as exculpatory? Far too many people are beaten or abused as children and do not become conscienceless murderous monsters. Child abuse doesn't explain what Hernandez did either. Some people, for whatever reason, just have no respect for human life or life in general. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrags Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 1 hour ago, COTC said: Beaten and abused in prison also... Probably not. He was a famous member of the Bloods. Considering they pretty much run the prison systems, it’s safe to say he was well taken care of inside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TigerJ Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 (edited) 3 hours ago, Gugny said: http://maamodt.asp.radford.edu/Research - Forensic/2005 20-1-Mitchell-40-47.pdf I would have liked to see this research look more closely at the age of the children when abuse took place. In the case of Reactive Attachment Disorder, the incidence of occurrence is definitely related to age - the younger the abuse, the more likely it is to result in Reactive Attachment Disorder. The reason for this is that in infancy to two years old (and actually prenatal experience as well) rapid development is going on in the brain. The brain is actually building its architecture and communication system (neurons) based on environment and experience. If there is a pattern of abuse and neglect occuring, it is likely the infant is being denied the opportunity to develop a primary bond (usually with the mother). It is the trust that develops through that primary bond that affects the way an infant will learn and relate to people the rest of his/her life. In essence, the Reactive Attachment/Borderline Personality individual lacks the ability to trust anyone. Lacking the ability to trust, they develop a strategy to achieve a sense of security through manipulation and control. They do know know how to love the way normal people do, and cannot develop the deeper relationships typical of normal people. Their relationships tend to be based on what meets their needs at the moment. They can mimic emotions, but don't feel them in the way that most people do. Violence is as much of a tool to manipulate and control their situation as is kindness. Our daughter seems to have learned to keep her violent streak under control, but she lies as easily as she tells the truth in order to get what she wants. If asking sweetly doesn't get her what she wants, she can become verbally abusive in an instant. Individuals who have been labeled in retrospect as having Reactive Attachment/Borderline Personality Disorder include Jeffrey Dahmler, Ted Bundy, and Adolph Hitler, to name a few. The article speaks about the high percentage of person in prison for violent crimes who were abused as children. I would venture to guess that a significant percentage of them could probably be diagnosed as having Reactive Attachment/Borderline Personality Disorder. Edited October 16, 2018 by TigerJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickrage Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 6 hours ago, Bangarang said: He was a scumbag who did scumbag things. this is the only correct answer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo716 Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 6 hours ago, dollars 2 donuts said: I don't know Hap. I hear ya, but...man. Abused AND molested AND then losing even the abusive/guiding influence in your life...it is not an excuse, but maybe it explains a lot. It doesn’t excuse nothing. My mother was sexually abused from 5-9 . So were her sisters sure it has effected her life it didn’t make my mom become a serial killer... I still feel a lot worse for his victims and their families than Hernandez Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 8 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: I believe there's an association when you look at the population of violent adult offenders and ask "how many of them were abused as children?" But what is the control group, that is the question? That is a good question, I don't know if they look at non-violent offenders who were abused for comparison. I only scanned this abstract but it did mention the methodological limitations of some studies and that they were examining 600 or so abused children compared to a matched control group of 500 or so children. Abuse often comes along with neglect, malnutrition and goodness what other evils. I have no idea how or if they can tease out those kinds of details but hopefully, they are doing what they can to with regard to control groups. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2771618/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 7 hours ago, joesixpack said: I'm of the mind that child molestation should be a death penalty offense. They can NOT be cured of their perversion, so the only way to ensure it won't happen again is to make sure they're not breathing. statistics prove this to be 100% factually wrong, just saying. 4 out of 5 criminals of a sexual offense do not commit another crime. there is a *****ton of research on offender research of all crimes; recidivism is highest among drug users whom commit consequential crimes to support their drug use - we do little to curb that problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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