simpleman Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 (edited) Enough of the fanboy bias. Enough with the excuses. None of the teams are great surrounding any of the 4 Rookies. Look at the statistics. Look at the QBR. Just the facts. Allen is well below the other rookies. Potential is not reality. It is hope and dreams. Statistics are the reality. At this point Allen is not comparing well at all. (From PFF) Edited October 16, 2018 by simpleman 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 3 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said: There's that ridiculous word "hate" when it comes to honest assessment of a Bills' QB. I used to hear the same foolishness regarding Peterman. Sad. You do hate Peterman Love Mrs Peterman (what you called me last year in the preseason) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 20 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said: How so? Where is your evidence based on his actual performance on the field? Easy to make a declarative statement with nothing to back it up. I'll be waiting. I'm waiting for you to look at my analysis from yesterday. You're the pot calling the kettle black here. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 5 minutes ago, thebandit27 said: I mean, read this review of Goff's rookie season: https://www.turfshowtimes.com/2017/1/10/14212140/la-rams-qb-jared-goff-rookie-season-recap-scouting-report It reads like a word-for-word write up of Allen through 6 games. Yeah cool. Goff as. Junior also lit college on fire and had 46 TDs in a Major PAC 12. What did Josh do in college in a minor conference again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 (edited) 7 minutes ago, simpleman said: Enough of the fanboy bias. Enough with the excuses. None of the teams are great surrounding any of the 4 Rookies. Look at the statistics. Look at the QBR. Just the facts. Allen is well below the other rookies. Potential is not reality. It is hope and dreams. Statistics are the reality. At this point Allen is not comparing well at all. There seems to be plenty of fanboy bias on both sides. 9 TD 7 INT. Some would say that's bad How many of those teams # 1 WR's have 10 catches for 32 targets? How many of those teams have a WR called a total bust leading the team in receptions and yards? Allen hasn't been the best of them, but he's not had much help imo Edited October 16, 2018 by ShadyBillsFan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 Josh will be OK. But no one can convincingly (or rationally) argue he is plating the game as well as Mayfield or even Darnold right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 Just now, oldmanfan said: I'm waiting for you to look at my analysis from yesterday. You're the pot calling the kettle black here. I don't know where your assessment is posted. Link it if you think it's that exhaustive and comprehensive. I doubt it will influence my thinking because I have watched him not only during games, but also via GamePass All-22 to get an idea of what he's looking at. On 10/12/2018 at 7:49 PM, 26CornerBlitz said: Kirk Cousins Chose Wisely; Early Grades on Rookie Quarterbacks Former NFL player and scout Bucky Brooks knows the ins and outs of this league, providing keen insight in his notebook. The topics of this edition include: -- Early grades for the first-round quarterbacks. 2018 QB CLASS: Early grades on first-round picks The 2018 quarterback class wasn't expected to make an immediate impact in the NFL, based on the number of perceived redshirts on tap, but the group has acquitted itself surprisingly well early. Now, it's obviously way too early for anyone to even bring up the legendary 1983 QB class, but I firmly believe the football world should be excited about the young gunslingers who are beginning to make a mark on the league despite obvious flaws. After digging into the All-22 Coaches Film following Week 5 of the regular season, here are my thoughts on each of the QBs who came off the board in Round 1 this past April: Baker Mayfield, Cleveland Browns: Grade: A- Sam Darnold, New York Jets: Grade: B Josh Allen, Buffalo Bills: Grade: C Josh Rosen, Arizona Cardinals: Grade: B- Lamar Jackson, Baltimore Ravens: Grade: INC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 Just now, MAJBobby said: Yeah cool. Goff as. Junior also lit college on fire and had 46 TDs in a Major PAC 12. What did Josh do in college in a minor conference again? As soon as you show me where I said anything remotely close to "Allen will become Goff", then I'll be happy to entertain this twisted line of logic. In the meantime, why don't you take my post for what it was: evidence that rookie QBs often experience problems with holding the ball too long, reading defenses, leaving clean pockets, spotty accuracy, poor decision making, and failure to protect themselves...all of which in turn lead to performances like Allen's (and Goff's and Trubisky's) in their first half-season. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 21 minutes ago, MAJBobby said: You would be wrong on the Drops. Cle and Az have more drops than Bills and Jets have one less drop than Bills. http://stats.washingtonpost.com/fb/tmleaders.asp?range=NFL&rank=232&type=Receiving Anyone watching Arizona's games and not just saying "but they have Larry Fitz he is a future HoFer" would know that their pass catchers have been horrible. They are dropping lots of balls and they are not just dropping difficult passes they are dropping 8 yard out routes at the sticks that are put right on the numbers of a 1st down. They are getting better separation than the Bills WRs and TEs, but they are dropping lots of catchable balls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PayDaBill$ Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 (edited) Hasn’t thrown a TD, accuracy issues, slow on reads / has trouble checking down. Not good traits for an NFL QB. So far he’s exactly what most of the prognosticators said he was coming out of College. No surprises! Edited October 16, 2018 by PayDaBill$ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 Just now, PayDaBill$ said: Hasn’t thrown a TD, accuracy issuea, slow reads and has trouble checking down. Not good traits for an NFL QB. Actually he's thrown two. One to Benjamin and another to Croom. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 Sigh... same general debate though since forever. he sucks! -But look at the WRs! he can’t read defenses! -but look at the line! Look at his stats -he just needs time bring back/pick up/ draft some other guy - he sucks! It would be sooo nice to get out of QB purgatory some day... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Clause Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 23 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said: No one should be shocked that he has a steep learning curve or take it as an affront when it's stated he's behind the other rookie QBs who were drafted in the top ten. They shouldn’t, he was considered the least pro ready with the most upside. Where people go wrong are the ones who say he is already a bust, or that he is not improving. It’s easy to see the baby steps he has been taking from his first start, and as long as he keeps this rate of growth by the beginning of next year if they get him a few true weapons the future should be bright. I saw one third and long yesterday where if he would of stayed in the pocket he probably could have thrown for the first down, instead he tried to run and got sacked. The pocket was collapsed and he may not had a good throwing lane, just enough Seperation on Jones that a veteran Qb should have made the play. Beyond that, the improvements are obvious, he lookedat times at progressions and avoided turn overs. Nothing spectacular, but on course for a rookie playing before his time... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 Josh Allen is not the part of the equation that worries me. The part that worries me is whether McD/Daboll/Culley can actually develop a project QB prospect and consistently put him in positions to succeed. I dont think they can. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 1 minute ago, Fred Clause said: They shouldn’t, he was considered the least pro ready with the most upside. Where people go wrong are the ones who say he is already a bust, or that he is not improving. It’s easy to see the baby steps he has been taking from his first start, and as long as he keeps this rate of growth by the beginning of next year if they get him a few true weapons the future should be bright. I saw one third and long yesterday where if he would of stayed in the pocket he probably could have thrown for the first down, instead he tried to run and got sacked. The pocket was collapsed and he may not had a good throwing lane, just enough Seperation on Jones that a veteran Qb should have made the play. Beyond that, the improvements are obvious, he lookedat times at progressions and avoided turn overs. Nothing spectacular, but on course for a rookie playing before his time... It's far too early in his career to make a call on what he'll ultimately be. I just want him to gain as much experience as possible this season with the team building up the supporting cast around him next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 14 minutes ago, thebandit27 said: I don't know if he looks on par with this year's other rookies, but I know that he's very similar to the rookie performance of the top QB picked in each of the last 2 drafts: And similar to both he is on an offense that lacks talent in almost every department other than running back (for Gurley, and then Howard, read McCoy) making it really hard to fairly evaluate how much is him being a rookie and struggling to pick certain things up quickly enough and how much is what's around him. Goff when the pieces were upgraded looked almost instantly better, Trubisky less so (his big game vs Tampa excepted of course). I don't know when we will know whether Josh is getting it or not. I usually think that mark in the modern NFL is somewhere between start number 12 and start number 20, but I know we are unlikely to find out definitively this year given the myriad of factors at play. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 9 minutes ago, thebandit27 said: As soon as you show me where I said anything remotely close to "Allen will become Goff", then I'll be happy to entertain this twisted line of logic. In the meantime, why don't you take my post for what it was: evidence that rookie QBs often experience problems with holding the ball too long, reading defenses, leaving clean pockets, spotty accuracy, poor decision making, and failure to protect themselves...all of which in turn lead to performances like Allen's (and Goff's and Trubisky's) in their first half-season. You showed an example of what could be not what will be. Haters gonna hate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 1 minute ago, GunnerBill said: And similar to both he is on an offense that lacks talent in almost every department other than running back (for Gurley, and then Howard, read McCoy) making it really hard to fairly evaluate how much is him being a rookie and struggling to pick certain things up quickly enough and how much is what's around him. Goff when the pieces were upgraded looked almost instantly better, Trubisky less so (his big game vs Tampa excepted of course). I don't know when we will know whether Josh is getting it or not. I usually think that mark in the modern NFL is somewhere between start number 12 and start number 20, but I know we are unlikely to find out definitively this year given the myriad of factors at play. Indeed, which is why I think the parallel is so important. LAR went out and added Woods, Watkins, Kupp, Cooper, Higbee, and Reynolds in a single offseason, and put them in the scheme of a young, creative, forward-thinking offensive play-caller. Chicago went out and added Robinson, Gabriel, Miller, and Burton in a single offseason, and put them in the scheme of a young, creative, forward-thinking offensive play-caller. What will we see this offseason? As for the landmark of "getting it", I've always liked @K-9's 1,000-attempts barrier. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PayDaBill$ Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 (edited) 10 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said: Actually he's thrown two. One to Benjamin and another to Croom. Thx... Edited October 16, 2018 by PayDaBill$ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 3 minutes ago, ShadyBillsFan said: You showed an example of what could be not what will be. Haters gonna hate "What could be--and what should be--must be, if we are to be, who we were created to be." - Andy Stanley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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