Can Beane and McDermott judge offensive talent, and build that side of the ball?

[KOKO NFL]

Watching the precocious, mobile, and accurate Patrick Mahomes, and the GOAT Tom Brady do battle Sunday night, like many Bills fans, I couldn't help reflect on the current Bills state of affairs, offensively (pun intended). First of all, it's only fair to say, the Defensive side of the ball looks great - with numerous draft picks and FA performing well. (Good job GM Beane and, former defensive coordinator, Coach McDermott). The offensive side, not so much... 

 

While it may be too early to judge Josh Allen's prospects for success, by any reasonable account, he is a serious "project" - with concerns over his ability to process reads and throw accurately. Clearly, the FO fell in love with his size, athleticism, and character/personality. But for those of us who are generally patient, but still 'results-oriented', the question remains: can you learn to be a winning NFL QB when you've never showed you could be a good college one? Then there's the decision to trade all that draft capital to move up to get your guy. The track record for the FO to acquire other 'offensive' players has been, well,  just that: Kelvin Benjamin has size, no speed, questionable hands, and no detectable heart; Zay Jones, whom they traded up to get in the 2nd RD., remains an enigma with dubious hands and separation skills; Ray-Ray is small, plays that way, and is a special teams liability. And then there's drafting the likes of Nate Peterman and Ricky Proehl (sigh). The jury is still out on Wyatt Teller, who is purportedly a mauler but somehow isn't good enough to crack an average OL, let alone get activated on a weekly basis. To date, Dion Dawkins is the only positive addition via the draft. As far as FA's, Chris Ivory is the only real upgrade, over last year's Carolina Panther du jour, Mike Tolbert. That's about it... The FO couldn't "see" what Andy Reid and the Chiefs did in Patrick Mahomes, falling in love instead with Nate Peterson's "outstanding character" in the 5th round.  (Note: with the rare exception of Tom Brady,  unlike RB's, great QB's are generally not available after round 2). Further, "McBeane" didn't have a back up plan this year at QB, striking out on AJ McCarron and creating the current mess by their lack of foresight and talent awareness. Okay, the offence is not very good. 

 

There is, however, a glimmer of good news . The Bills have 10  2019 draft picks. Having said that, a casual fan with a draft magazine could hit on say, 40% of them. A Rhesus monkey maybe 30%. The current Bills brass has been at about 20% - with, again, a clear preference to draft guys who can tackle. 

 

So, two questions Bills Mafia: ( 1) is the current FO truly capable of appraising and acquiring good players for the offense? (Early returns aren't good); (2) If JA continues to resemble a strong armed LB versus a playoff caliber QB, and a weak 2018 season, 2019 draft, and 2019 season is produced, do Beane & Company deserve to see year 4 (2020) in Buffalo? 

 

 

 

[Fadingpain]

McD and Beane will both go when the Allen experiment fails.

 

I think he'll get around 20 games, more or less.  Expect some regime change not this upcoming off-season, but the next one.

 

PS:  Why is it too early to judge Allen but perfectly clear that Nate is garbage?  I'm not asking this of the OP specifically.  Both have played a grand total of 5 games in the NFL.

 

Just curious why we all can see Nate should be cut yesterday, but Josh is gonna be a good one.

 

[KDIGGZ]

They preach 1 of 11. Unfortunately the QB is much more valuable than that and they have proven that they have no clue when it comes to the most important position in all of sports.

[billsfan89]

We will see just how much cap space and draft picks they invest into the offensive side of the ball now that they have pretty much all or most of the pieces in place on the defensive side of the ball. I would hope they use all 3 picks in the first three rounds on the offensive side of the ball. I would also hope that they sign at least 3-4 starting caliber players on the offensive side of the ball in free agency (Particularly 1-2 players that can catch a pass and 2 interior OL players.) 

 

The offense needs at least 6 new starters if not more and the regime has no need to spend major money or early round draft resources into securing the defense (The depth needs can be filled out in the mid rounds and they can sign 1-2 players with cap space if the right players come at the right price, but the defense in 2019 does not need a major infusion of talent.) 

 

I am not sure how confident I can be in this regimes ability to sign or draft offensive talent mainly because they haven't really had the cap space to sign any offensive free agent over 3 million aav besides AJ who they shipped out (idiotically.) Their only major draft choices on offense (Besides Allen) are Dion Dawkins (who looks to be a pretty good pick) and Zay Jones (Who got off to a rough start to his career but is showing signs of life now.) 

 

There just really hasn't been much to go off of to see if they can acquire talent on the offensive side of the football. 

Edited October 15, 2018 by billsfan89

[Mark Vader]

12 minutes ago, Fadingpain said:

McD and Beane will both go when the Allen experiment fails.

 

I think he'll get around 20 games, more or less.  Expect some regime change not this upcoming off-season, but the next one.

 

PS:  Why is it too early to judge Allen but perfectly clear that Nate is garbage?  I'm not asking this of the OP specifically.  Both have played a grand total of 5 games in the NFL.

 

Just curious why we all can see Nate should be cut yesterday, but Josh is gonna be a good one.

 

Fair question....

 

One reason is because of draft status. Peterman was a 5th round pick & Allen a first round pick.

 

Peterman was a projected back-up NFL QB, Allen a potential solid to good if not great NFL starter.

 

Peterman has looked bad since he started playing. Granted he was dealt a bad hand and was thrust into the spotlight when he probably shouldn't have. Those interceptions has left all Bills fans with a bad taste, and they don't want to see anymore from him. It may be unfair, but that's how it goes.

 

Many people feel that Allen can and will be the future of the Bills, myself included. He was given a bad deal and thrust into action immediately, when some of us wanted to see him holding a clipboard all year. That's not how it turned out and here we are.

 

I personally hated the Peterman pick. Even though it was a 5th round pick. I saw nothing from him in his college career that convinced me he was going to be a starter in this league. Josh Allen was not my top QB in the draft this year, but I was fine with the Bills selecting him. He's raw, but I believe that he has good to great potential.

 

I feel that Allen is progressing. Slowly, but progressing. I really think we would have won today, had he not gotten hurt. That pass to Benjamin was big and you could see that he was hyped and hungry and ready to go on the attack, but he had to accept that he was injured.

 

That's the best way I can put it. Peterman got sucked into a no-win situation and now he has been stigmatized. He threw two very nice passes to Zay Jones & Andre Holmes today and then he threw two awful interceptions. The loss goes with him, that's a bad deal, but that's how it goes sometimes.

[SoTier]

I have questioned McDermott and Beane's competence about anything to do with offensive football since last TC when, after letting Woods and Goodwin walk in FA, they traded away Watkins, too, essentially stripping the offense of all its NFL caliber WRs and all its ability to stretch the field.  At this time (even before Sunday's game), I have become convinced that McDermott not only doesn't care about offensive football but that he views it as a necessary evil, most especially that new-fangled invention called the forward pass.  He apparently thinks to resurrect the 2005 Bears that went to the playoffs with a great defense, a great running game, and a rookie QB ... or maybe he wants to resurrect the 1973 Bills that rode rookie QB Joe Ferguson feeding OJ Simpson the ball on nearly every play (to the tune of 2003 rushing yards for OJ) to a 9-5 record. 

 

Whatever the motivation, McDermott and his henchman Beane are clueless about how to build a modern NFL offense.  They don't value offensive football, and moreover, McDermott seems to be more interested in players' character or attitude than in their talent.  Sorry, Sean, but work ethic and "buying into" your outmoded offensive philosophy do NOT trump talent.

[atlbillsfan1975]

31 minutes ago, Fadingpain said:

McD and Beane will both go when the Allen experiment fails.

 

I think he'll get around 20 games, more or less.  Expect some regime change not this upcoming off-season, but the next one.

 

PS:  Why is it too early to judge Allen but perfectly clear that Nate is garbage?  I'm not asking this of the OP specifically.  Both have played a grand total of 5 games in the NFL.

 

Just curious why we all can see Nate should be cut yesterday, but Josh is gonna be a good one.

 

Arm strength , mobility, and Peterman has never shown he can make the plays Allen has. 

Couple those things with the fact that Peterman has had a year on an NFL team already and that how I come to that conclusion. 

McDermott and Beane I believe will get all of this year and next to show improvement. 

[SoTier]

7 minutes ago, Mark Vader said:

Fair question....

 

One reason is because of draft status. Peterman was a 5th round pick & Allen a first round pick.

 

Peterman was a projected back-up NFL QB, Allen a potential solid to good if not great NFL starter.

 

Peterman has looked bad since he started playing. Granted he was dealt a bad hand and was thrust into the spotlight when he probably shouldn't have. Those interceptions has left all Bills fans with a bad taste, and they don't want to see anymore from him. It may be unfair, but that's how it goes.

 

Many people feel that Allen can and will be the future of the Bills, myself included. He was given a bad deal and thrust into action immediately, when some of us wanted to see him holding a clipboard all year. That's not how it turned out and here we are.

 

I personally hated the Peterman pick. Even though it was a 5th round pick. I saw nothing from him in his college career that convinced me he was going to be a starter in this league. Josh Allen was not my top QB in the draft this year, but I was fine with the Bills selecting him. He's raw, but I believe that he has good to great potential.

 

I feel that Allen is progressing. Slowly, but progressing. I really think we would have won today, had he not gotten hurt. That pass to Benjamin was big and you could see that he was hyped and hungry and ready to go on the attack, but he had to accept that he was injured.

 

That's the best way I can put it. Peterman got sucked into a no-win situation and now he has been stigmatized. He threw two very nice passes to Zay Jones & Andre Holmes today and then he threw two awful interceptions. The loss goes with him, that's a bad deal, but that's how it goes sometimes.

 

Peterman should not have been the Bills backup last season or this one because he was absolutely not ready to play.  Maybe he shouldn't have even been drafted as high as he was since he lacks an NFL caliber arm.  Maybe if he was afforded time to learn the nuances of pro football and been introduced slowly into game action (as in garbage time), he might have eventually figured out how to compensate for his physical shortcomings and become a modest backup QB.  Now, I don't think he has any chance of doing that at all simply because McDermott had the need to "prove" that he was right about whatever stupid point he was trying to make ("football character" trumps talent perhaps?) by throwing Peterman into the fire.

 

[Alphadawg7]

ONNNNNEEEE DRRRRAAFFFFTTT!!!!

 

Why do people keep asking this question?  Beane told them it would take TWO seasons to fix the cap situation.  You people act like THIS IS the offense they sought out and built.  Geezus, Beane was here ONE draft.  Our rookie QB has nothing to work with, was ALWAYS going to take time to develop.  

 

The D is playing outstanding, they already built it back up.  Next 2 years will be about building the offense and balancing the team.

 

All you instant gratification people freaking out are out of touch with the reality of what they are doing.  Will they succeed, maybe or maybe not.  The only thing for CERTAIN is you won’t know this week, next week,, the week after, etc.  It’s going to take a couple years.

 

So maybe there should be a therapy section on this board where people can go calm them nerves for the rest of the this season which will be rough on offense cuz it’s devoid of talent and has a rookie QB learning in harsh conditions.

 

 

[Heitz]

6 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

ONNNNNEEEE DRRRRAAFFFFTTT!!!!

 

All you instant gratification people freaking out are out of touch with the reality of what they are doing.  Will they succeed, maybe or maybe not.  The only thing for CERTAIN is you won’t know this week, next week,, the week after, etc.  It’s going to take a couple years.

 

Was going to say the same thing - it’ll be a little more clear next year!

 

Seems that those that are “generally patient” are often not... ?

[fridge]

50 minutes ago, Heitz said:

 

Was going to say the same thing - it’ll be a little more clear next year!

 

Seems that those that are “generally patient” are often not... ?

 

We've seen this script several times over.  If they make it to 2020 it won't be because they really nailed their highly anticipated second** draft. For them to have a chance, Allen will have to defy all logic and actually improve dramatically, to the dismay of most scouts and analysts.

 

**McDermott's third.

[CaptnCoke11]

What’s offense?

[The Process]

It pains me to read the words "next year" ....but it's reality. With a strong draft on offense a cpl FAs...... minimal change to the D, we should be playoff caliber. If not, then it's fair to say the current regime is blind to building the offense. Let's not forget the weird O line events that took place this year. 

 

Arm chair coaches and GMs are abound!!

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

...pretty painful assessment from the D&C's Maiorana...

 

"Buffalo’s quarterback situation has reached the depths of the 1-12-1 team of 1968 when the Bills trotted out Dan Darragh, Ed Rutkowski and Kay Stephenson; or the 1-13 team of 1971 that had Dennis Shaw and James Harris; or the 2-14 teams of 1984 and 1985 that actually gave snaps to the likes of Joe Dufek, Matt Kofler and Bruce Mathison. "

 

"Tyrod Taylor, E.J. Manuel, Trent Edwards, Rob Johnson, Alex Van Pelt. Kelly Holcomb, J.P Losman, and Thad Lewis? You’d sign up for any of them right now. Well, maybe not Lewis. "

[AllenWillBust]

4 hours ago, Fadingpain said:

PS:  Why is it too early to judge Allen but perfectly clear that Nate is garbage?  I'm not asking this of the OP specifically.  Both have played a grand total of 5 games in the NFL

 

This is why it is so important they picked the right QB on draft night.  1000's of excuses will be made for Bust Allen over the next 1.5 seasons.  This is how many Bills fans do it, they simply never learn.

 

Just remember, Pegula hiring McDermott started this ball rolling, picking a defensive minded HC over an offensive, in a league tailored to passing.  He's an idiot owner. 

[Jpsredemption]

No they can't.

[vorpma]

Fire owners, Beane, McDermott, front office, scouts, coaching staff, players, media, and the fans; ya all happy. Now back to adult discussion!

[downunderbill]

If half of you guys had your way the coaching carousel would continue every time the team had a bad game.

Rex has a bad time in Buffalo we called for his head, and rightfully so. New regime is brought in and starts the process of culling the team to bring in their guys for their system, you know, like every NFL head coach in history.

 

Normally it takes about three years to build a team and start seeing consistent results of that build, but because they didn't draft the QB you wanted, that Leash is shortened to one and a half seasons. 

Edited October 15, 2018 by downunderbill

[ProcessTruster]

3 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

ONNNNNEEEE DRRRRAAFFFFTTT!!!!

 

Why do people keep asking this question?  Beane told them it would take TWO seasons to fix the cap situation.  You people act like THIS IS the offense they sought out and built.  Geezus, Beane was here ONE draft.  Our rookie QB has nothing to work with, was ALWAYS going to take time to develop.  

 

The D is playing outstanding, they already built it back up.  Next 2 years will be about building the offense and balancing the team.

 

All you instant gratification people freaking out are out of touch with the reality of what they are doing.  Will they succeed, maybe or maybe not.  The only thing for CERTAIN is you won’t know this week, next week,, the week after, etc.  It’s going to take a couple years.

 

So maybe there should be a therapy section on this board where people can go calm them nerves for the rest of the this season which will be rough on offense cuz it’s devoid of talent and has a rookie QB learning in harsh conditions.

 

 

All correct.    Run game , Defense rebuilt  and cap space relief all happening right now and on schedule.   QB is in place.   all is well

[papazoid]

passed on Mahomes

signed McCarron then traded him....stuck with $5 mil of dead money

drafted Allen.....gave up two very valuable 2nd round draft picks to move up

stuck with Peterman....who sucks

exercised 5th year option on Kelvin Benjamin $8.5 mil....he sucks

traded away starting LT (Glenn) to move up in draft

pushed all pro RG Incognito out the door by low balling him.

drafted Zay Jones instead of juju smith shuster (who has more catches than Antonio brown)

 

umm.....i'd say they are struggling with decisions on the offensive side of ball