Andy Benoit: The Good, the Bad, and the Season Outlook for the NFL’s Rookie Quarterbacks; Added Any Given Sunday Write Up from FBO's Rivers McCown

[DCOrange]

11 hours ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

The Good and the Bad of Every Rookie QB So Far

 

4. JOSH ALLEN

 

The Good: As expected, you see flashes of the raw talent. Allen’s arm is robust, particularly on deep balls, and he’s mobile enough that it’s fair to question why Bills coaches have not incorporated him more into their run designs, reminiscent of what Sean McDermott’s old team, the Panthers, do with Cam Newton. Allen is also willing to get hit, and while the hits have come far too often, at least he doesn’t flinch in the pocket. As Blaine Gabbert observers can attest, fear in the pocket will curtail a career, no matter how talented the passer.

 

 

I'm wondering (hoping) that Buffalo is forcing him to focus on improving on the fundamentals before they'll be willing to make the read-option/QB Keepers a larger staple of the offense. They do seem to run the read-option a fair amount as is, but as Benoit pointed out, with Allen's size and mobility, you would think it would play a larger role in the offense, especially given the lack of playmakers around him.

[H2o]

[Thurman#1]

9 hours ago, Inigo Montoya said:

Josh Allen is exactly who we all thought he was coming out of the draft, a freakishly athletic QB with a howitzer of an arm and good leadership skills who was going to need to work on his accuracy and need some time to develop his game. 

 

Now that he is playing, all these incredibly knowledgeable national media types are pointing out that he is a freakishly athletic QB with a howitzer of an arm and good leadership skills who needs to work on his accuracy and needs some time to develop his game.

 

Their next earth shattering expose will be about how water is wet.

 

 

Yeah, they need to stop examining what is actually happening and make up some stuff that's not happening but is earth-shattering.

 

This is one of the two main takes on reporters: "He's saying what everyone else is saying ... boring" and "He's saying stuff that nobody else is saying, and that proves he's wrong."

 

[Trogdor]

10 hours ago, billspro said:

 

Does this guy have any credentials for evaluating QBs? 

 

Also, how does Rosen going 10/25 put him ahead of Allen?

 

Allen has flashed some ability to be the best in the group. Mayfield is obviously the most pro ready at this point.

He doubled him in yards and had a passing TD. The completion percentage was bad for that game, but his mechanics and pre-snap are way ahead of Allen's. Arizona might be the only team with an Oline and WR Corp as void of talent as Buffalo. I think Darnold and Allen are pretty comparable at this point. They have a lot of the same weaknesses.

[HappyDays]

11 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

 

I wanted ESB from Notre Dame in the 6th.  We drafted undersized slot wrs.

 

He has a total of 3 catches for 89 yards, with Aaron Rodgers as the QB and a banged up WR corps around him. You can't really complain about our drafts so far. Which round did you want Tre'Davious White? How about Matt Milano, where was he on your big board?

[billsredneck1]

10 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I don't know.  I *think*, from what I've seen, that Mayfield and Rosen are further ahead.  They don't seem to need to worry about whether their fundamental ball-throwing mechanics will come apart and make them inaccurate on quick slants, crossers and dumpoffs.  I don't say that to pick on Allen, that's just a fact that he and his coaches have openly acknowledged.  He's got to work on an aspect of his game, his fundamental throwing skills, that those guys don't.   (Darnold has fundamentals work to do too, as does Jackson)

 

So here's a question.  This is the noted "who were you throwing to, Holmes or Benjamin?  Did Holmes quit on his route, were you guys not on the same page, and if he'd kept going would he have been able to catch it?" 3rd and 9.  Now I have no idea how Allen is being coached.  Maybe he was told "take a deeper shot on this one so they know you will, we're OK punting".  But meanwhile, look at that lonely goatherd - I mean, TE.  Yeah, he's not far from the LOS, but he's got enough real estate around him that I bet he could move the sticks. (that's Logan Thomas). 

 

 

I could be wrong, but I think Mayfield sees it, and Rosen sees it. 

On the other hand, maybe they don't have a guy downfield who stops on his route.

And we don't know how Allen was coached there, all I know is he never gave Thomas a glance.

 

Just to leave us with something sweeter, here's a successful pass to Clay.  Leads him beautifully, perfect height, "come to Papa" (the ball is the little smudge at 48 1/2 yds above the hashes, and you can see by Clay's hands where he expects it to go).

 

 

that to me is maddening.     how is that not basically in his peripheral vision?    that suggests to me that he is ( more often than not) locking in on his first read and that is not a good sign.  i thought this year i wouldn't have to be screaming "THROW THE BALL!",  but i was wrong.  that photo on top is not the only time that's happened.

Edited October 11, 2018 by billsredneck1

[HappyDays]

10 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

But meanwhile, look at that lonely goatherd - I mean, TE.  Yeah, he's not far from the LOS, but he's got enough real estate around him that I bet he could move the sticks. (that's Logan Thomas). 

 

 

I could be wrong, but I think Mayfield sees it, and Rosen sees it. 

 

I wouldn't criticize that play in particular. I have no faith that Logan Thomas gets the 1st there.

[billsredneck1]

9 hours ago, VW82 said:

 

If Allen doesn't show much improvement by year end here's how I'd handle it: 1. We have cap space and the roster is bereft of talent so clearly we should upgrade it regardless; 2. Acquire another QB (draft, sign, or trade) and make Allen fight for the job in training camp. I wouldn't be averse to picking a QB in the first round if the right guy was available.

 

If Allen can't win a QB competition going into year two then he can sit and be our back up for a year assuming we can't trade him. I don't think you can just hand someone a job two years in a row if they're not earning that right to play. 

 

Obviously the hope is Josh improves by leaps and bounds this year and proves he's our franchise guy going into year two. 

 

you're right on all your points. we all saw ej's 1st year and it was obvious that it was very unlikely that he was going to improve enough in the off season to contend in his second year.

however, whaley pulled the sammy deal and started the train rolling to salary cap hell.  as much as i would like to see josh succeed, at the end of the year we have to be realistic about how things look and not repeat the whaley years. ( look at the qbs we passed on while being "all in on e.j.").

[Watkins90]

Could a portion of Allen's problem be McDermott saying don't take too many chances. The kid has the arm strength to fit balls into tight windows. Is he allowed to sling it? Or, does McDermott want him to be risk averse? Maybe that comes down to accuracy issues, idk. But, I just feel like we have Tyrod 2.0 right now, but Allen is just more willing to stay in the pocket and doesn't allows bail at the first sign of pressure. 

[billsredneck1]

1 minute ago, Watkins90 said:

Could a portion of Allen's problem be McDermott saying don't take too many chances. The kid has the arm strength to fit balls into tight windows. Is he allowed to sling it? Or, does McDermott want him to be risk averse? Maybe that comes down to accuracy issues, idk. But, I just feel like we have Tyrod 2.0 right now, but Allen is just more willing to stay in the pocket and doesn't allows bail at the first sign of pressure. 

scroll up and look at that first photo where he has logan at the top wide open.  that ball should have been on it's way to him at that very second....but that's not my point.

my point is look at the other 3 guys and they are all covered.

 

that seems to be the norm and it can cause josh to hang on to the ball long enough for his protection to break down.  if this is gonna continue, he has got to come off that first read a lot faster. in that pic he has the time to read the whole field.....but.... idk,  but i'm starting to get worried.

[Brand J]

I didn’t realize the Browns found a starting LT from the UDFA pool. The Austin Proehl pick really irked me at the time, especially after having selected Ray Ray McCloud a round earlier. Would’ve been nice to take a swing on an athletic freak of an offensive tackle with that 7th round pick.

[ddaryl]

Accuracy, pre snap reads, seeing/scanning the field.

 

yes this is where Allen needs to get better..... Here is hoping we start seeing signs of consistently improving moving forward. Build some positive momentum

 

 

 

[Big Turk]

Lmao...Rivers McCown?? What dd  he just take two last name from NFL QBs and put them together? One starter and one backup?

 

Well, I think I'm gonna gloss myself Stafford Fitzpatrick from now on. Good strong Irish name.

Edited October 11, 2018 by matter2003

[26CornerBlitz]

2 minutes ago, matter2003 said:

Lmao...Rivers McCown?? What dd  he just take two last name from NFL QBs and put them together? One starter and one backup?

 

Well, I think I'm gonna gloss myself Stafford Fitzpatrick from now on. Good strong Irish name.

 

Good. Can't wait to read your breakdowns of his mechanics and mental processing on his path to becoming a great QB.   Looking forward to this.  

[Hapless Bills Fan]

12 hours ago, VW82 said:

You guys keep coming back to the Oline and WRs. If we swapped Oline and WR groups with the Rams we'd still have trouble moving the ball right now. That's how raw Josh is. The focus needs to be on determining if Allen can develop in his pre and post snap reads and with his accuracy enough to be a winning QB. If not, then we should be thinking about finding a new QB to develop rather than ignoring the problem and looking for players who might cover up his debilitating weaknesses.

 

The fact is people don't know that.

1) Allen is steady in the pocket, but if he had a better Center handling the protection calls and a better OL in front of him, it would be easier for him to keep his eyes downfield and progress in his reads.  That is GB's perennial strategy with rookies: Blitz 'em until their eyes whirl around like Toons.  Welcome to Lambeau, Mr Allen.

2) When I watch other teams play now, I'm very sensitive to how many of their throws require adjustment by the WR, many so subtle they aren't even noticed unless you're looking for them.  Allen just doesn't have guys that will do that, maybe that can do that.  The only guys I've seen adjust on Allen throws are the much-maligned Zay Jones, who I now believe has the potential to become a solid NFL receiver, and Croom.

[Mr. WEO]

These really point to the fact that the offensive coaching on the Bills is horrible.  McD didn't notice ANYTHING familiar about how Newton was used as a eun threat in Carolina??

 

This team needs an offensive HC.  McD is never going to properly oversee the development of a kid like Allen.  And Daboll is a nobody.  Probably the worst possible choice to pair with Allen.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

11 hours ago, The Wiz said:

EDIT:  I'm not trying to poke at you but that first picture is the type of play we have seen from TT every game(and most of us B word about it).  3rd and 9, go to the safefy valve, get 5-6 yards, still punting.  I honestly prefer any QB to sit in the pocket and wait to see if something opens ups rather than throw to the guy that's open 8 yards short of the first.

 

No poke taken. 

 

Two points here.  I pointed out in my op that we don't know how Allen was coached, and it might have been 'take a shot downfield'.

The second, which I also mentioned but maybe buried, is that Allen never looks at the TE.  Because he's downfield all the way, the TE is way more open than the sort of throw where Taylor would get 5-6 yds.

 

Just now, Mr. WEO said:

These really point to the fact that the offensive coaching on the Bills is horrible.  McD didn't notice ANYTHING familiar about how Newton was used as a eun threat in Carolina??

 

This team needs an offensive HC.  McD is never going to properly oversee the development of a kid like Allen.  And Daboll is a nobody.  Probably the worst possible choice to pair with Allen.

 

TBH, I think that's one reason they signed Anderson.  I think McDermott and Daboll had a "come to Jesus" moment and McDermott made the point "you've got a run threat, Use Him" to which Daboll would have made the counter-point "Do you really want to see Peterman back on the field?  Running QBs get their bells rung and get hauled into concussion protocol.  Bring in someone more capable as a backup if you want to see designed QB runs."

[BarleyNY]

11 hours ago, VW82 said:

 

If Allen doesn't show much improvement by year end here's how I'd handle it: 1. We have cap space and the roster is bereft of talent so clearly we should upgrade it regardless; 2. Acquire another QB (draft, sign, or trade) and make Allen fight for the job in training camp. I wouldn't be averse to picking a QB in the first round if the right guy was available.

 

If Allen can't win a QB competition going into year two then he can sit and be our back up for a year assuming we can't trade him. I don't think you can just hand someone a job two years in a row if they're not earning that right to play. 

 

Obviously the hope is Josh improves by leaps and bounds this year and proves he's our franchise guy going into year two. 

 

 

The crux of the issue is whether to use resources to acquire another QB versus a player that could help Allen succeed.  Let’s say free agency doesn’t yield anything and we’re sitting with a top 10 pick. Our pick rolls around and there’s both quality QB and WR prospects on the board.  What do you do?  Passing on that WR for someone to compete with Allen will certainly be seen as undercutting him.  The Bills better be sure that he’s NOT their guy if they make that kind of move. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

12 hours ago, Gugny said:

I can't believe that, in two seasons, Beane hasn't been able to:

 

Draft our future QB

Assemble a decent O line to protect him and effectively run block

Assemble a high quality WR corps

 

What a !@#$ing bum!!!!!!!!  We were only a QB, 3 wide receivers, 2 linebackers, a defensive end, a defensive tackle and an offensive line and two safeties away from being the best team in football.  How long is this supposed to take??

 

And why isn't Josh Allen as good as Patrick Mahomes????  No excuses.  Failure.

 

I'm starting to get a bit testy about this POV, which I realize Gug is exaggerating here for comedic effect.

 

Look, we all know Rome wasn't built in a day. 

 

But the point is, we had better WR who were let walk and other teams have successfully signed FA who can play - for less money than we have paid, overall, when you bring in some miscues such as Kerley and Coleman's guaranteed salaries.  My concern is that Beane didn't intend to decimate the WR corps.  I think he honestly believed with Boldin then Benjamin, Matthews, Zay Jones, and Holmes they had upgraded or at least obtained equal value to Watkins, Woods, Goodwin, and Hunter.  And, well, he didn't. 

 

Other teams have managed to obtain better WR value in FA for $4.5M against the cap than a month of Corey Coleman and a game of Jeremy Kerley.  Can we please accept that?  When it came to upgrading WR, Beane laid an egg.

 

The same is true on the FA market.  Pouncey is costing the Chargers $6.3M against the cap.  Bodine is costing us $2.1.  I don't think our cap precluded an extra $4.2M.  I don't think we meant to send our QB out behind a horrid OL.  The bottom line is, we cheaped it and there was more available at a price we could have afforded.

 

Oh.  And it's actually one season for Beane.

[DuckyBoys]

30 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

These really point to the fact that the offensive coaching on the Bills is horrible.  McD didn't notice ANYTHING familiar about how Newton was used as a eun threat in Carolina??

 

This team needs an offensive HC.  McD is never going to properly oversee the development of a kid like Allen.  And Daboll is a nobody.  Probably the worst possible choice to pair with Allen.

dont forget a qb coach who hasnt coached a qb since the Carter administration