Straight Hucklebuck Posted October 10, 2018 Share Posted October 10, 2018 1 minute ago, John from Riverside said: The only problem with this is Josh was not a reach He definitely was a reach. 0 star prospect, JUCO transfer, not All-Mountain team, no elite production in college, no banner/statement wins in college. Got drafted because he was 6'5" 240 and has a cannon. All scouting reports questioned his accuracy. He would not have been a first rounder based on production. He was a projection/reach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted October 10, 2018 Share Posted October 10, 2018 Just now, Straight Hucklebuck said: He definitely was a reach. 0 star prospect, JUCO transfer, not All-Mountain team, no elite production in college, no banner/statement wins in college. Got drafted because he was 6'5" 240 and has a cannon. All scouting reports questioned his accuracy. He would not have been a first rounder based on production. He was a projection/reach. Players that were considered at the number 1 pick that get taken at 7 are not reaches....period Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobblehead Posted October 10, 2018 Share Posted October 10, 2018 16 hours ago, Rochesterfan said: So although this is just another troll thread (great just what we needed) - I will say since every QB drafted since the beginning has not played in the NFL - all QBs are projects and so any that you consider successful by whatever measure you would like fits the answer. In realistic terms - the QB that just became the all time leading passer was a 2nd round project. The guy in third Farve was a 2nd round project. There are a bunch of Super Bowl winners and Hall of Famers that were 6th round or later and several UDFA’s including guys that were bagging groceries. Therefore if your question is really about project QB’s - there are a ton of very, ultra successful projects. If you really mean that JA sucks and this FO should be gone which seems to be your current mission - I saw wait and give it time because many QBs get better after 4 games. Great response. Thank you. We just don’t know what is going on right now. All I know is it’s the coordinators job to coordinate and modify based on the talent and experience. As as far as QB projects, I saw a video of Brady and Brees playing against each other in college- interceptions. Inaccurate passes. All that. We as fans here don’t know jack when it comes to development, accuracy, footwork, grasp of playbook. Nothing. And don’t let anyone here tell you they do. Brees was given up on in SD. Farve was traded early. Goff looked like a disaster his first year. Gannon was in his 30’s before he turned it around. Warren Moon had to play in Canada to start. Sorry but we won’t know anything about our rookie for awhile. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuckyBoys Posted October 10, 2018 Share Posted October 10, 2018 I think the guidelines for qbs is changing as far as the draft. Used to be teams really focused on number of starts in college and success and you got draft gems like Andre Ware, Tim Tebow, Vince Young Draft stock recently seems to me more beholden to physical skills than just production in college. Tannehill is probably the closest comparison to Allen His stock jumped for nowhere based on physical tools Scouts seem to be looking at ability to make NFL throws/durability/mobility More of a eye ball test than in the past Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris66 Posted October 10, 2018 Share Posted October 10, 2018 1 hour ago, John from Riverside said: Players that were considered at the number 1 pick that get taken at 7 are not reaches....period Thats because the nfl is stupid. I still laugh at the gms thate state a qb played in a pro style offense. So freakin what! All the good teams are playing a college style offense. Allen should have been 3rd round tops. He is as much of a project as Ryan Mallet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted October 10, 2018 Share Posted October 10, 2018 Nobody is going to take a patriot fan seriously soooooo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logic Posted October 10, 2018 Share Posted October 10, 2018 5 minutes ago, Chris66 said: Thats because the nfl is stupid. I still laugh at the gms thate state a qb played in a pro style offense. So freakin what! All the good teams are playing a college style offense. Allen should have been 3rd round tops. He is as much of a project as Ryan Mallet. I'll tell you what: If my team had won 5 Lombardis in the past 18 years, the LAST thing I'd be doing is hanging out on a division rival's message board, talking **** and trolling their members. What an absolutely lame and sad thing to do. Go watch some Patriots** film or something and let the adults talk in peace. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrEpsYtown Posted October 10, 2018 Share Posted October 10, 2018 I think this all depends on what people are defining as a project. People can be #1 overall picks and still be considered a project. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjt328 Posted October 10, 2018 Share Posted October 10, 2018 2 hours ago, Straight Hucklebuck said: Best Way is go team by team and see: AFC East 1. Patriots - Brady - The NFL didn't know a 6th Round Pick would be the GOAT. Pretty quickly showed he was no project because of his accuracy and ability to choose the open man. 2. Dolphins - Tannehill - Somewhat a project. Converted college WR. Has been an average NFL QB. Does not look like a Super Bowl caliber QB. 3. Jets - Darnold - Blue Chip prospect. 4. Bills - Allen - Project from a small conference with mediocre college production. AFC North 1. Steelers - Roethlisberger - Project? He dominated the MAC and immediately became the starter in Pittsburgh. Not a project. 2. Ravens - Flacco - Deleware St, I'd say a project QB. Had the one great Playoff run that resulted in a Super Bowl win. 3. Bengals - Dalton - Not a project. Was a winner in college and has been steady in the NFL. 4. Browns - Mayfield - Not a project. #1 Overall. AFC South 1. Colts - Luck - Not a project. #1 Overall. 2. Titans - Mariota - Not a project. #2 Overall. 3. Jaguars - Bortles - #3 Overall pick, but close to a project? 4. Texans - Watson - #12 Overall, definitely not a Project. Won a National Title over Alabama, almost won a 2nd over Alabama. AFC West 1. Chargers - Rivers - Not a project. #4 overall in 2004 Class. 2. Raiders - Carr - Huge college numbers, not a project. First Rounder. 3. Chiefs - Mahomes - Project? I don't think so, he was a 10th overall pick, huge college production, massive arm. Biggest question was Air Raid offense to Pro. 4. Broncos - Keenum - Project. Career Backup who had great season last year in Minnesota and is getting his crack at starting full-time. NFC East 1. Giants - Manning - #1 Overall, son of Archie Manning, brother of Peyton Manning. Not a project. 2. Eagles - Wentz - Shaky first season, then exploded onto the scene. Not sure if he was a project coming in, most analysts liked him. 3. Redskins - Smith - #1 Overall, early career disappointment, but has been steady for years now. Not a project. 4. Cowboys - Prescott - Maybe a project. I always thought in college he was more of a running QB, but took command of the Cowboys quickly. NFC North 1. Packers - Rodgers - Tedford QB was the biggest knock, but not a project. 2. Lions - Stafford - Not a project, #1 overall pick from SEC school. 3. Bears - Turbisky - #3 overall, but only one year in College. Call him a project. 4. Vikings - Cousins - Mid-Round pick, but a well rounded prospect coming out of school. Not a project QB. NFC South 1. Saints - Brees - First pick of the 2nd Round I believe, a early career disappointment, not a project. 2. Panthers - Newton - #1 Overall, dominant college career, not a project. 3. Buccaneers - Winston - #1 Overall, but shaky decision making and maturity in college. Call him a project, but was a National Champion in college, so not a project on talent. 4. Falcons - Ryan - Not a project. NFC West 1. Seahawks - Wilson - Seen as too small by Buddy Nix and other 31 teams. Call him a project. 2. Rams - Goff - #1 Overall - Not a project. 3. Cardinals - Rosen - Polished passer, not a project. 4. 49ers - Garrapolo - Small school prospect, was going to continue sitting in New England. Call him a project. So out of 32 starting QBs, I'd say 9 were projects coming into the league. Definitely Worked Wilson (HOFer), Flacco, Wentz Too Early but looks like they can play in the NFL, we could parse this group down again to likely Super Bowl winner or not. Winston, Garrapolo, Turbisky, Prescott Probably Not Tannehill, Keenum and if you want to include Bortles, although he has been to AFC Title Game and his statistics are not atrocious. Way too early Allen, but would defy all scouting logic The problem here is that you are defining "project" by things like overall draft position, how successful they were in college or how quickly they ended up progressing in the NFL after-the-fact. None of these are particularly applicable. Tim Tebow was drafted in the first round, and was possibly the most successful college QB ever. Yet most observers (outside of Denver) felt he was a massive project, and needed to re-learn the quarterback position from the ground-up in order to be successful at the pro level. Many felt he would be better suited to use his athletic skills for another position like tight end. Go back and read the scouting reports on Aaron Rodgers. Go back and read what Green Bay reporters observed in practice while he was backing up Brett Favre the first 3 seasons of his career. You can't tell me that he wasn't a project. In my opinion, it's all about HOW MUCH a player needs to improve from the time they are drafted in order to become a successful starter in the NFL. It doesn't matter where they are drafted, how good their stats were in college or even how quickly it happens once they hit the pros. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RussellDopeland Posted October 10, 2018 Share Posted October 10, 2018 2 hours ago, Straight Hucklebuck said: Bills - Allen - Project from a small conference with mediocre college production. 2 hours ago, Straight Hucklebuck said: Packers - Rodgers - Tedford QB was the biggest knock, but not a project. Not to be argumentative or anything, but....both Allen and Rodgers were Juco tranfers that started two years in Div 1. The argument that Allen's college production was "mediocre" doesn't ring true when you compare the stat lines for Allen and Rodgers, who was considered to be highly productive at Cal. Rodgers (Cal): 5,469 passing yards, 43 Tds, 13 Ints, Rating 150.27, 336 rushing yards with 8 Tds. Allen (Wyoming): 5,066 passing yards, 44 Tds, 21 Ints, Rating 137.7, 767 rushing yards with 12 Tds. Furthermore, the notion that Rodgers wasn't a project is belied by the fact that the Packers essentially rebuilt his throwing mechanics from the ground up; and this is well-documented. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris66 Posted October 10, 2018 Share Posted October 10, 2018 1 hour ago, Logic said: I'll tell you what: If my team had won 5 Lombardis in the past 18 years, the LAST thing I'd be doing is hanging out on a division rival's message board, talking **** and trolling their members. What an absolutely lame and sad thing to do. Go watch some Patriots** film or something and let the adults talk in peace. Get thicker skin. Its not trolling its an opinion. If Allen was coming out just 5 years ago. He never would have had a first round grade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logic Posted October 10, 2018 Share Posted October 10, 2018 16 minutes ago, Chris66 said: Get thicker skin. Its not trolling its an opinion. If Allen was coming out just 5 years ago. He never would have had a first round grade. It's just that I never see you contribute anything worthwhile in terms of football discussion. Ever. You essentially ONLY ever come here to spew negativity about the Bills. You've spoken poorly of Allen (multiple times), the Pegulas, the coaching staff. If your only role is to speak negatively about the Bills, then it IS trolling. What else should I call it? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teef Posted October 10, 2018 Share Posted October 10, 2018 5 minutes ago, Logic said: It's just that I never see you contribute anything worthwhile in terms of football discussion. Ever. You essentially ONLY ever come here to spew negativity about the Bills. You've spoken poorly of Allen (multiple times), the Pegulas, the coaching staff. If your only role is to speak negatively about the Bills, then it IS trolling. What else should I call it? remember what happend to chris66 on the bbmb? it was scandalous. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted October 10, 2018 Share Posted October 10, 2018 4 minutes ago, teef said: remember what happend to chris66 on the bbmb? it was scandalous. Please .... do tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macaroni Posted October 10, 2018 Share Posted October 10, 2018 42.7% of the time … worth the risk I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teef Posted October 10, 2018 Share Posted October 10, 2018 5 minutes ago, Gugny said: Please .... do tell. i'm curious to see if chris remembers. i have a feeling he's a wny pat's fan...the worst kind of all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luka Posted October 10, 2018 Share Posted October 10, 2018 The bigger question here is, how often do fans knee jerk over 4 games and then look like fools a couple years down the road? I know Rams fans know what I'm talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted October 10, 2018 Share Posted October 10, 2018 55 minutes ago, Chris66 said: Get thicker skin. Its not trolling its an opinion. If Allen was coming out just 5 years ago. He never would have had a first round grade. Seriously you can go pound sand.... 28 minutes ago, Gugny said: Please .... do tell. Got my popcorn ready! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Straight Hucklebuck Posted October 10, 2018 Share Posted October 10, 2018 2 hours ago, mjt328 said: The problem here is that you are defining "project" by things like overall draft position, how successful they were in college or how quickly they ended up progressing in the NFL after-the-fact. None of these are particularly applicable. Tim Tebow was drafted in the first round, and was possibly the most successful college QB ever. Yet most observers (outside of Denver) felt he was a massive project, and needed to re-learn the quarterback position from the ground-up in order to be successful at the pro level. Many felt he would be better suited to use his athletic skills for another position like tight end. Go back and read the scouting reports on Aaron Rodgers. Go back and read what Green Bay reporters observed in practice while he was backing up Brett Favre the first 3 seasons of his career. You can't tell me that he wasn't a project. In my opinion, it's all about HOW MUCH a player needs to improve from the time they are drafted in order to become a successful starter in the NFL. It doesn't matter where they are drafted, how good their stats were in college or even how quickly it happens once they hit the pros. Whatever mjt, if you don't like my construct then go out and actually do some work and develop your own system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted October 10, 2018 Share Posted October 10, 2018 Every QB is a project, why?? Because no one has yet master the formula on how to identify good nfl QBs based on College QB performance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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