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The Draft Network - Josh Allen's Struggles Go Beyond Lackluster Supporting Cast

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To me what's interesting is that few on this board are fairly and objectively critiquing the other 1st Round QBs, two of which were NOT available to the Bills. On the season, Allen is second behind Mayfield in completion % and has gone 2-2 in his first four starts against: Chargers, Vikes, Green Bay and Titans. Yes, the Bills NEEDED a good Defense and this last week they needed a decent / good running game and got it, but we knew that didn't we? Everyone was shouting to start Allen while understanding this team would rely on good to great Defense and a decent to good running game. They do, and now the sky is falling...?? Man, sometimes the Bills fans are the best and sometimes they are the worst.

 

Allen possessed all the prototypical traits a franchise QB has in the physical department and had the intangibles to lead a team, but needed starts and coaching to get him into the NFL QB realm. He's getting that....and the Bills are still winning despite that fact. They lost miserably at Baltimore and the game was essentially over when he came into play in the 2nd half and he was bad, but now we're seeing how good Baltimore is and it was his first live action EVER! Then, in his first start he looked every bit the Rookie QB, but the Defense was terrible and in the second half everything started to come together Defensively for the Bills and he made some minor improvements. Then the Vikings game the D continued their dominance and he orchestrated short drives to capitalize on the opportunity through his athleticism and an open pass to Croom. Green Bay on the road and he had a rookie game...no excuses other than his options for passing were limited and for whatever reason, Shady wasn't used and Ivory was non-existent in the game plan. Then Titans come to town. Defense gets a turnover and Allen uses his athleticism again to score the game's only TD. We also forget that the Offense was moving the ball and gaining yards, but a botched field goal by another Rookie cost a probable 3 points, and then Allen creates the drive to win the game on a last second field goal in just his 4th start. And he made some crucial passes on that final drive, don't get it twisted. 

 

Is he ready to be the reining King of Buffalo? Well DUH, of course not. But, we've gotten exactly what many fans wanted, won two tough games against good opponents and Allen continues to develop. If you take Traspasso's evaluation, Allen had the best game of his short NFL stint from a pocket presence and awareness standpoint. Folks, change occurs incrementally, not all in one week. Mahomes is awesome, but Reid sat him behind Alex Smith, a former #1 overall pick and good QB, to learn for a year. Let's give Allen the year and see how he transitions into next year, all the while game-planning accordingly and building on what is becoming a very good Defense. 

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25 minutes ago, 1st&ten said:

Well ok, what should we do ? Should the fans start a petition to run Josh out of Buffalo ?

 

No, this is just an honest look at where he's at right now. It doesn't mean he's a lost cause.

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7 minutes ago, No Place To Hyde said:

No way. Not even a question. At least Allen is working on those things 100% in practice and in live games. Jackson is working on gimmick plays. 

 

I would agree hes behind Darnold...who had most of the off season working with the 1s. He is behind Rosen who has more around him to help out. And hey, hey was behind both coming in. No change there. 

 

One thing I do see,with Allen is he isn't making the same mistakes over and over. He spends a game doing something poorly and the following week it's been corrected. 

 

He's learning to throw the ball away. He is learning to hang longer in the pocket. Timing and trust will come,as well. If I was placing a $5,000 bet I would say we see a 250 yard game before another sub 90 yard game.

 

I think it's pretty much a certainty that Lamar is taking passing reps in practice. He hasn't had an opportunity to show it in live games yet, but in terms of footwork, I think Allen presently has more issues than Lamar does (Lamar has his own as well to be sure though).

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3 minutes ago, DCOrange said:

 

I think it's pretty much a certainty that Lamar is taking passing reps in practice. He hasn't had an opportunity to show it in live games yet, but in terms of footwork, I think Allen presently has more issues than Lamar does (Lamar has his own as well to be sure though).

I believe I read that RGIII is basically running the scout team for Baltimore right now. Yes, I'm certain they are working with Lamar but his attention/reps are divided. 

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20 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

I agree with this title.  He is struggling but I'm not panicking yet because I expected this.  He wasn't supposed to start.  The game looks too fast for him.

I just want to see baby steps as the season progresses.  

 

Right even the people that thought he was worth the 1st overall pick didn't think he would look good this year, certainly not right away. The author of this article agrees the only way he'll learn is by making these mistakes and reviewing the film.

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Who are these nerds that have come out of the woodwork?  Joe Marino?

 

 

 

CHIEF ADMINISTRATIVE OFFICER

CAO & Senior NFL Draft Analyst for The Draft Network. Co-host of the Draft Dudes podcast. Member of the FWAA.

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19 minutes ago, BillsFan17 said:

I truly enjoy the hyperbole that other QBs would look the same if not worse in our offense.

 

1) Baker Mayfield is playing on arguably the worst team in NFL history who have Landry and a bunch of young unproven talent.

 

2) Sam Darnold was traded up for, but the Jets still finished with the sixth overall pick. They are not a quality team and Sam is playing extremely well for them.

 

3) Josh Rosen is on a team many have felt were worse than the Bills, and yet is playing very good ball.

 

Cleveland is a very talented team IMO. One of the best O-Lines in the league, two decent RBs (plus whatever you think of Chubb), a good WR in Landry, and two talented TEs in Njoku and Fells.

 

The Jets aren't a very good team, but their RB tandem is playing as well as anyone in the league outside of the Gordon/Ekeler and Kamara/Ingram tandems, and they have a pretty good group of WRs (missing a #1 guy but have a bunch of solid options). And the only starting QB in the league that has a lower grade from PFF than Darnold is Allen himself. They've both struggled immensely overall this season.

 

Rosen had a strong debut for the Cardinals but he came back down to Earth this week. And he at least has Fitz, Kirk, and David Johnson to work with. That OLine is a mess though.

 

I do think all 3 of them would be playing better for Buffalo than Allen presently is, but I also think Buffalo has the worst supporting cast by a decent margin between the 4.

Just now, dubs said:

Who are these nerds that have come out of the woodwork?  Joe Marino?

 

 

 

CHIEF ADMINISTRATIVE OFFICER

CAO & Senior NFL Draft Analyst for The Draft Network. Co-host of the Draft Dudes podcast. Member of the FWAA.

 

I believe Marino is a Bills fan who happens to have been breaking down film for awhile now. The guys at TDN do a lot of blending film study with advanced stats.

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Oh look, ANOTHER sky is falling in Buffalo article. In full disclosure i didn't read the article, but I am so sick of it. He is a rookie, still finding his feet with no Vet support at the position and no supporting cast. His WR's are marginal at best and that's being kind, the O-line is starting to come together but still have stretches of ineptitude. These so called experts are ridiculous. If they are all experts, they should already know all this. 

 

Maybe he shouldn't be starting, but guess what, he is the best QB on our roster and the difference between the two isn't even remotely close. These are professional players and coaches, they play to win so they are going to play the best players they have. It's not rocket science to know this. Everyone knew the offence was going to struggle this year. We took to many losses on the Oline and you can't expect a rookie to play well and with confidence behind a struggling line. Especially when he has no receivers that he can count on. The only offensive weapon that he can count on is shady and some of the members of this site are actually saying to trade him. Ummmm YEAH, THAT makes sense!  

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4 minutes ago, DCOrange said:

 

I believe Marino is a Bills fan who happens to have been breaking down film for awhile now. The guys at TDN do a lot of blending film study with advanced stats.

 

If Dan Marino wrote that blog I might put some credibility into it. Joe Marino, nah. 

 

Basically he he wrote what we all know. Allen is a raw rookie with a ton of potential and lot to learn and a terrible supporting cast. 

 

Boom!  I’m a blogger for the Draft Dudes!

 

 

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Just now, BigPappy said:

Oh look, ANOTHER sky is falling in Buffalo article. In full disclosure i didn't read the article, but I am so sick of it. He is a rookie, still finding his feet with no Vet support at the position and no supporting cast. His WR's are marginal at best and that's being kind, the O-line is starting to come together but still have stretches of ineptitude. These so called experts are ridiculous. If they are all experts, they should already know all this. 

 

Maybe he shouldn't be starting, but guess what, he is the best QB on our roster and the difference between the two isn't even remotely close. These are professional players and coaches, they play to win so they are going to play the best players they have. It's not rocket science to know this. Everyone knew the offence was going to struggle this year. We took to many losses on the Oline and you can't expect a rookie to play well and with confidence behind a struggling line. Especially when he has no receivers that he can count on. The only offensive weapon that he can count on is shady and some of the members of this site are actually saying to trade him. Ummmm YEAH, THAT makes sense!  

 

It's not a sky is falling article. Rather it's an objective critical analysis of where Allen's game is four games into his career as the Bills' starting QB.  The weakness of the surrounding cast is very much acknowledged, but that does not preclude a breakdown of what he has to improve upon for sustained success at the NFL level. 

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Keep hanging your hat on he's a rookie and rookies make mistakes. That's true but he's doing simple things really poorly. A better run organization would've tried to put him in a better position.

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A few comments:

 

1.  I have never heard of this site, and I tried to google the author to see what expertise he has, other than sitting in his basement watching film all day.  If someone has any input on why his word is important, please inform me as to why.  Otherwise I have no idea why I should give his thoughts any credence.

2.  I would like to find all the articles this guy has ever written, then go back and read the first four articles he wrote vs. those that he wrote after he gained some experience in actually writing.  I will bet his later articles are more cogent in terms of how he structured his arguments, structured sentences, etc. (even though his arguments may be based on little actual knowledge - see above).

3.  All four rookie QBs are developing.  All of them make good and bad plays every game. Good reads and bad every game. I watched Rosen for a while the other day because he was the guy I thought they should draft.   He had the one big play to a guy that was open downfield by about 5-10 yards, and I saw several passes where he just completely overthrew guys.  And some guys dropped some balls.  Yet that is used for an excuse for Rosen, but when Holmes doesn't come back for the ball and it hits him in the hands somehow that's Allen's fault.  Which leads me to my last and most frustrating point:

 

4. Bills fans, at least some of them, really do not ever want a QB to succeed here.  They complain and complain about the Bills not taking a shot at drafting a potential franchise QB, and when they do they scream it's not the right one.  The guy leads the team to wins two out of the first four games he starts, but those wins don't count because he didn't throw for 300 yards.  They are professional (??) sports writers, who should know better, talk about his inability to read defenses etc. and that he is terrible,  as if by his fourth start he is supposed to have learned how to play what most agree might be the most difficult and complex position in all of sports as if he's a 5-10 year veteran.

 

I thought to myself when he was drafted, and I hoped I was wrong, that the fans (??) of his team would not give him a fair chance to succeed and would place way too many expectations on him early.  And I was right.  People keep expecting the reincarnation of Kelly, and given that there are only around 30 or so QBs in history that wear the gold jacket, it might just be that Allen will not be Jimbo.  or he may be. It may be he's or QB for the next 15 years, or that he may not be. What is certain is that's IT"S TOO EARLY to tell.  Thank God it's the team making decisions, the team that will give him time to develop, as well as more resources around him.  Good thing it's the team making those decisions, because if it was some fans he'd already be gone. 

 

It's just ridiculous how much crap this kid is already getting.

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I tend to disagree with most fans not for just the sake of argument but I think Josh is progressing nicely, beating a stout Minnesota defense and another top notch defense in the Titans, he also was behind towards the end and hit on a few plays to get them into FG range. Signs are all pointing in the right direction that we found our QB of the present and future and I'm not really sure why others are doubting, just my opinions though.

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3 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

A few comments:

 

1.  I have never heard of this site, and I tried to google the author to see what expertise he has, other than sitting in his basement watching film all day.  If someone has any input on why his word is important, please inform me as to why.  Otherwise I have no idea why I should give his thoughts any credence.

2.  I would like to find all the articles this guy has ever written, then go back and read the first four articles he wrote vs. those that he wrote after he gained some experience in actually writing.  I will bet his later articles are more cogent in terms of how he structured his arguments, structured sentences, etc. (even though his arguments may be based on little actual knowledge - see above).

3.  All four rookie QBs are developing.  All of them make good and bad plays every game. Good reads and bad every game. I watched Rosen for a while the other day because he was the guy I thought they should draft.   He had the one big play to a guy that was open downfield by about 5-10 yards, and I saw several passes where he just completely overthrew guys.  And some guys dropped some balls.  Yet that is used for an excuse for Rosen, but when Holmes doesn't come back for the ball and it hits him in the hands somehow that's Allen's fault.  Which leads me to my last and most frustrating point:

 

4. Bills fans, at least some of them, really do not ever want a QB to succeed here.  They complain and complain about the Bills not taking a shot at drafting a potential franchise QB, and when they do they scream it's not the right one.  The guy leads the team to wins two out of the first four games he starts, but those wins don't count because he didn't throw for 300 yards.  They are professional (??) sports writers, who should know better, talk about his inability to read defenses etc. and that he is terrible,  as if by his fourth start he is supposed to have learned how to play what most agree might be the most difficult and complex position in all of sports as if he's a 5-10 year veteran.

 

I thought to myself when he was drafted, and I hoped I was wrong, that the fans (??) of his team would not give him a fair chance to succeed and would place way too many expectations on him early.  And I was right.  People keep expecting the reincarnation of Kelly, and given that there are only around 30 or so QBs in history that wear the gold jacket, it might just be that Allen will not be Jimbo.  or he may be. It may be he's or QB for the next 15 years, or that he may not be. What is certain is that's IT"S TOO EARLY to tell.  Thank God it's the team making decisions, the team that will give him time to develop, as well as more resources around him.  Good thing it's the team making those decisions, because if it was some fans he'd already be gone. 

 

It's just ridiculous how much crap this kid is already getting.

 

Right on cue!  This is objective and fair analysis.  Just because you never heard of Marino it doesn't mean his assessment isn't accurate. 

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Peyton Manning's first 5 starts, the Colts avg. 10 points a game and went 0-4 and ended up 3-13. That was with Faulk and Harrison as weapons. Troy Aikman threw 8 interceptions in his first 4 starts. Josh Allen just beat 2 playoff teams in his first 4 starts. I think Allen deserves some time to progress.   

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3 minutes ago, Lofton80 said:

Peyton Manning's first 5 starts, the Colts avg. 10 points a game and went 0-4 and ended up 3-13. That was with Faulk and Harrison as weapons. Troy Aikman threw 8 interceptions in his first 4 starts. Josh Allen just beat 2 playoff teams in his first 4 starts. I think Allen deserves some time to progress.   

Did you even read the article? 

4 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

Right on cue!  This is objective and fair analysis.  Just because you never heard of Marino it doesn't mean his assessment isn't accurate. 

It's actually a good assessment...

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5 minutes ago, Lofton80 said:

Peyton Manning's first 5 starts, the Colts avg. 10 points a game and went 0-4 and ended up 3-13. That was with Faulk and Harrison as weapons. Troy Aikman threw 8 interceptions in his first 4 starts. Josh Allen just beat 2 playoff teams in his first 4 starts. I think Allen deserves some time to progress.   

a better run organization wouldn't have put Payton in that position...

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Posted (edited)
25 minutes ago, Reed83HOF said:

Did you even read the article? 

It's actually a good assessment...

 

The visceral reactionary Josh Allen defenses without even reading the analysis are pretty sad. 

Edited by 26CornerBlitz
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14 minutes ago, dubs said:

 

If Dan Marino wrote that blog I might put some credibility into it. Joe Marino, nah. 

 

Basically he he wrote what we all know. Allen is a raw rookie with a ton of potential and lot to learn and a terrible supporting cast. 

 

Boom!  I’m a blogger for the Draft Dudes!

 

 

 

If you actually provided film breakdowns, you could be. That's kind of the beauty of America; if you're willing to put the work in and know what you're doing, there's a decent chance you can carve out a niche for yourself like he has.

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Posted (edited)
51 minutes ago, BillsFan17 said:

I truly enjoy the hyperbole that other QBs would look the same if not worse in our offense.

 

1) Baker Mayfield is playing on arguably the worst team in NFL history who have Landry and a bunch of young unproven talent.

 

2) Sam Darnold was traded up for, but the Jets still finished with the sixth overall pick. They are not a quality team and Sam is playing extremely well for them.

 

3) Josh Rosen is on a team many have felt were worse than the Bills, and yet is playing very good ball.

 

1. Baker Mayfield has some of the most talented receiving options in the AFC North as a whole. Yes, AB stands alone as he's arguably the best WR in the entire NFL, but after that who comes next? Landry could be...JuJu benefits from AB on the other side, Njoku a 1st round pick, Callaway's Draft status had nothing to do with talent so that's another very talented WR and add Duke Johnson a receiving threat, Carlos Hyde doing great and then Nick Chubb who's a beast. That's not including an emerging WR in Higgins. Mayfield has the most support of any of the other three and has the most starts and experience in college.

 

2. Darnold had a good game this week - no caveats, but his QB rating of 77.2, with 7 TDs (good) to 6 INTS (not so good); 83 of 149. He has Anderson and Enunwa to throw to, not to mention Crowell who is playing well and a more experienced Offensive line.

 

3. Rosen - has a poor Offensive line but has Fitz, Kirk and David Johnson in his prime and yet had a 40% completion rate this last Sunday against a questionable 49ers Defense. And, that's taking into account the lone big play to Kirk for 75 yards and a TD. He gets credit for that absolutely, but so does the rest of the game in context. He currently has 2 TDs and 1 INT with a 49% completion rate over three games. 

 

I'm not down on any of these guys, including Allen. I think all of them will probably have illustrious careers when it's all said and done. I said last year and still believe 2018 QB class will be like the 1983 QB Draft class in the longevity of greatness from QBs. BUT, you CANNOT point to the other three and presume that they're doing better than Allen in nearly any way AND each of them have better receivers and according to PFF two of them (Browns and Jets) have a better Offensive lines. 

 

Allen has done more with less in nearly every sense of the word. He needs to continue to improve and I do believe he left plays on the field, but let's be real about what he doesn't have around him and consider all the context, please.

 

Edited by BigBuff423
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46 minutes ago, BillsFan17 said:

I truly enjoy the hyperbole that other QBs would look the same if not worse in our offense.

 

1) Baker Mayfield is playing on arguably the worst team in NFL history who have Landry and a bunch of young unproven talent.

 

2) Sam Darnold was traded up for, but the Jets still finished with the sixth overall pick. They are not a quality team and Sam is playing extremely well for them.

 

3) Josh Rosen is on a team many have felt were worse than the Bills, and yet is playing very good ball.

 

Let's be fair here:

 

1) The 2017 Browns were atrocious overall.  The 2018 Browns have far better skill position players on offense than the Bills. Tell me you wouldn't take Jarvis Landry, Carlos Hyde, Nick Chubb, Duke Johnson, and David Njoku over what Buffalo has...

 

2) Don't look now, but the Jets have Robby Anderson (who the entire league--but not a few of us astute TSW posters--missed on in 2016), Quincy Enunwa, and Jermaine Kearse at WR.  Definitely better than our crop of WR.  Oh, and if Darnold completing 45% of his throws against Denver qualifies as "playing extremely well", then you should be thrilled with Allen.

 

3) What. Are. You. Talking. About.  The Cardinals just won their first game of the season behind a 10/25 performance from Rosen.

 

No offense, but you can't expect to have any credibility when you blast other folks supposed hyperbole and then make outlandish claims yourself.

17 minutes ago, FeelingOnYouboty said:

Keep hanging your hat on he's a rookie and rookies make mistakes. That's true but he's doing simple things really poorly. A better run organization would've tried to put him in a better position.

 

Ain't that the truth?

 

He needed time from the beginning--this kid was playing at Wyoming 9 months ago.  Instead of giving him time and a solid supporting cast, he gets thrown into the mix with the worst offensive personnel group in the game (by a significant margin), and people are somehow surprised that he looks like a raw-but-talented kid that was playing for Wyoming 9 months ago :lol:

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1 minute ago, thebandit27 said:

 

Let's be fair here:

 

1) The 2017 Browns were atrocious overall.  The 2018 Browns have far better skill position players on offense than the Bills. Tell me you wouldn't take Jarvis Landry, Carlos Hyde, Nick Chubb, Duke Johnson, and David Njoku over what Buffalo has...

 

2) Don't look now, but the Jets have Robby Anderson (who the entire league--but not a few of us astute TSW posters--missed on in 2016), Quincy Enunwa, and Jermaine Kearse at WR.  Definitely better than our crop of WR.  Oh, and if Darnold completing 45% of his throws against Denver qualifies as "playing extremely well", then you should be thrilled with Allen.

 

3) What. Are. You. Talking. About.  The Cardinals just won their first game of the season behind a 10/25 performance from Rosen.

 

No offense, but you can't expect to have any credibility when you blast other folks supposed hyperbole and then make outlandish claims yourself.

 

Ok, you just cheated bandit...you were looking at my paper (see post above)......

 

Jk Bro.... :beer:

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19 minutes ago, FeelingOnYouboty said:

Keep hanging your hat on he's a rookie and rookies make mistakes. That's true but he's doing simple things really poorly. A better run organization would've tried to put him in a better position.

 

Simple things such as what?

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34 minutes ago, ricojes said:

No, Peteman was "straight-up" bad.  The Bills have no chance to win with Peterman at QB.  They have a chance with Allen even though he's learning as he goes.  Allen is a project, it's no surprise he is struggling to read defenses and make the right reads.  I know it's been 4 starts and he should know by now, but it's most likely going to take a little longer...

 

I think bad is an understatement for Peterman.  He's been historically bad in 2 of his 3 starts, and regular bad the rest of the time.  He doesn't look like he belongs on an NFL roster at all.  Allen is at least at the level of a bad NFL QB, and there's real reasons to think/hope he'll get better, especially with more playing time.  And he did at least have the one good game so far, and has shown that he can win if the D gives him several takeaways.  That's miles ahead of Peterman, but miles behind what we hope he'll become.

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Just wanted to pop in and say this is a reasonable, objective, fair analysis on Marino's part. He even acknowledged on Twitter that he was going to get ripped apart by sensitive Bills fans. He clearly states that he's not saying Allen won't improve, he's not calling him a bust, he's simply pointing out where he's currently lacking and what he needs to improve upon.

If Bills fans STILL get upset over such a reasonable and fair analysis or find reasons to pick it apart or claim Allen is being persecuted, they really, REALLY need to get thicker skin. 

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