The Draft Network - Josh Allen's Struggles Go Beyond Lackluster Supporting Cast

[Cash]

1 hour ago, jrober38 said:

Allen has mostly been terrible so far, but the pleasant surprise is that the defense has been outstanding since halftime of the Chargers game.

 

The Bills look like they're a QB and #1 WR away from having an actual contender of a football team. 

 

I'd add in 2-3 O-linemen, but otherwise I agree.  I'm not sold on Daboll yet, but I'm not convinced he sucks, either.

 

7 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Folks just getting their takes in now so if he busts down the road they can say they called it first ??...supposed to be Bills fans, not draft analysts.

 

To be fair - many, many professionals and amateurs called Allen as a bust long before the Bills drafted him.  So it's way too late to be first.

 

1 minute ago, TheElectricCompany said:

 

He had poor stats at Wyoming. He has poor stats in Buffalo. 

At some point, the guy has to actually put up top tier QB statistics, right? 

This is the problem with Josh. He has never had passing statistics that scream "elite QB", and we really want to see the data match the hype for once. 

 

The pre-draft comparison that really scared me was Jake Locker.  Both had a lot of the same excuses for their college stats.  And it seemed crazy to me to draft a "project" QB in the top 10.  So I'm not surprised Allen's not playing well this soon into his career.  And with the offense around him, there's a limit to his upside this year at least.  But I'd like to see him progress and improve as the season goes on (and take a huge leap next season), so I think it's worthwhile to evaluate him every step of the way.  If he's consistently looking better in December than he did in September, I'll be a lot more optimistic heading into the offseason.

[billsfan1959]

16 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Folks just getting their takes in now so if he busts down the road they can say they called it first ??...supposed to be Bills fans, not draft analysts.

Well, I’ll get my take in now. I don’t know how good he will end up being; however, I do think he will eventually be good.

[GreatComeback]

1 hour ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

It doesn't tell me anything. They are either correct in their analysis or they aren't with knowledgeable breakdowns of QB traits, mechanics, etc.  

 

Sorry but I trust reliable opinions.  People who have actually evaluated players for a living.  Not a couple of fan boys who coach high school sports and have less NFL experience than the janitor at One Bills Drive.

 

As I said, my problem is with people who post their takes as though they are gospel.   Enjoy it for the entertainment value but these two are highly unqualified to legitimately evaluate NFL football players.  

[26CornerBlitz]

2 minutes ago, GreatComeback said:

 

Sorry but I trust reliable opinions.  People who have actually evaluated players for a living.  Not a couple of fan boys who coach high school sports and have less NFL experience than the janitor at One Bills Drive.

 

As I said, my problem is with people who post their takes as though they are gospel.   Enjoy it for the entertainment value but these two are highly unqualified to legitimately evaluate NFL football players.  

 

Guys like Buddy Nix or Matt Millen.  

[Gray Beard]

32 minutes ago, McNubbins said:

Nobody said of Allen before the draft that he would be good if you threw him in week 1 and started him the rest of the season.  He had the most growing to do of the top QBs in the draft.  Unfortunately, he has to grow on the job.  The past couple weeks he's looked like JP Losman 2.0, but just because he didn't come in like a savior doesn't mean he can't be good.

 

Give it time.  If we still have these concerns in a year's time, that's when we should be concerned.

I think he’s Rob Johnson 2.0. More rugged than Losman. 

 

I am am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. This could be a throwaway year for the Bills.

As long as he stays healthy, let’s see what happens next year with another off season to practice and learn, likely better receivers, likely better O line. 

[par73]

Allen, not surprisingly, looks a lot like he did at Wyoming. Whether he can learn to read opposing defenses downfield and improve his mechanics are the big questions. Based on what I've seen over the years, far more QB's fail than succeed when they come to the NFL as raw as Allen is.

[John from Riverside]

27 minutes ago, TheElectricCompany said:

 

He had poor stats at Wyoming. Through 5 NFL games He has poor stats in Buffalo. 

At some point, the guy has to actually put up top tier QB statistics, right? 

This is the problem with Josh. He has never had passing statistics that scream "elite QB", and we really want to see the data match the hype for once. 

Fixed it for you

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

1 hour ago, jrober38 said:

 

I expected him to look exactly how he's looked so far, which is that he's the worst starting QB in the NFL right now. 

 

19 passes for 82 yards is the problem. 4.3 YPA in 2018 is as bad a passing game as you should see in the NFL anymore. 

 

It would really help if the Bills receivers could make routine catches and didn't have the highest drop rate in the NFL.

[starrymessenger]

11 minutes ago, Gray Beard said:

I think he’s Rob Johnson 2.0. More rugged than Losman. 

 

I am am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. This could be a throwaway year for the Bills.

As long as he stays healthy, let’s see what happens next year with another off season to practice and learn, likely better receivers, likely better O line. 

 

Agree. He is so raw I think we may have to wait until the end of the 2019 season before knowing what we have in Josh. Of course it is also possible that things break one way or the other before then but I tend to doubt it.

[GoBills808]

45 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

Bad take. Plenty of people here have been critiquing Allen well before he was drafted by the Bills. 

It's just too early to say definitively how he's going to end up. Realistically everyone is guessing.

 

		Games		Passing												Rushing				Scoring
Year	Tm	G	GS	Cmp	Att	Inc	Cmp%	Yds	TD	Int	Rate	Sk	Yds	Y/A	AY/A	Att	Yds	Y/A	TD	TD	Pts
Per Game Average				17.6	32.2	14.6		175.8	0.8	1		3	27.6			1.2	2.4		0.2	0.2	1.2
2016-2016	RAM	5	5	88	161	73	54.66	879	4	5	65.7	15	138	5.46	4.56	6	12	2.00	1	1	6

 

Above is Goff's chart through his first 5 games. Below is Allen's. They're not dissimilar at all, in fact Allen's numbers are very similar to Goff's with respect to passing. 

 

		Games		Passing												Rushing				Scoring
Year	Tm	G	GS	Cmp	Att	Inc	Cmp%	Yds	TD	Int	Rate	Sk	Yds	Y/A	AY/A	Att	Yds	Y/A	TD	TD	Pts
Per Game Average				13	24.4	11.4		149.6	0.4	1		3.8	30.2			6.2	27		0.6	0.6	3.6
Per 16 Games				208	390	182		2394	6	16		61	483			99	432		10	10	58
2018-2018	BUF	5	4	65	122	57	53.28	748	2	5	60.4	19	151	6.13	4.61	31	135	4.35	3	3	18

 

[26CornerBlitz]

Just now, GoBills808 said:

It's just too early to say definitively how he's going to end up. Realistically everyone is guessing.

 

		Games		Passing												Rushing				Scoring
Year	Tm	G	GS	Cmp	Att	Inc	Cmp%	Yds	TD	Int	Rate	Sk	Yds	Y/A	AY/A	Att	Yds	Y/A	TD	TD	Pts
Per Game Average				17.6	32.2	14.6		175.8	0.8	1		3	27.6			1.2	2.4		0.2	0.2	1.2
2016-2016	RAM	5	5	88	161	73	54.66	879	4	5	65.7	15	138	5.46	4.56	6	12	2.00	1	1	6

 

Above is Goff's chart through his first 5 games. Below is Allen's. They're not dissimilar at all, in fact Allen's numbers are very similar to Goff's with respect to passing. 

 

		Games		Passing												Rushing				Scoring
Year	Tm	G	GS	Cmp	Att	Inc	Cmp%	Yds	TD	Int	Rate	Sk	Yds	Y/A	AY/A	Att	Yds	Y/A	TD	TD	Pts
Per Game Average				13	24.4	11.4		149.6	0.4	1		3.8	30.2			6.2	27		0.6	0.6	3.6
Per 16 Games				208	390	182		2394	6	16		61	483			99	432		10	10	58
2018-2018	BUF	5	4	65	122	57	53.28	748	2	5	60.4	19	151	6.13	4.61	31	135	4.35	3	3	18

 

 

I agree with you. 

[PlayoffsPlease]

Allen is tied for the most wins among the four rookies who are starting.  Lets leave it at that now. 

[bills11]

There are actual valid points in the article..so far Allen is exhibiting the same issues he had at Wyoming .. inconsistent mechanics..his mechanics are breaking down under duress ..play recognition and ability to throw the proper passes in the right situations . Like Ive said on prior occasions Allen is a project whatever way you want to slice it the hope is his physical talents once he puts it together mentally will allow him to shine.  But as of now Allen is behind the other QBs in terms of the aspects of  being a quarterback..rosen and Mayfield forget the nnumbers both throw from a firm base and have consistent mechanics and mentally are ahead atm. But the bills knew that going in its only a couple games in and he's also shown flashes of putting it together wait till next year to evaluate him right now he's just learning .

[GreatComeback]

1 hour ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

Guys like Buddy Nix or Matt Millen.  

 

Or GM’s who are actually successful.

[LSHMEAB]

1 hour ago, GreatComeback said:

 

Sorry but I trust reliable opinions.  People who have actually evaluated players for a living.  Not a couple of fan boys who coach high school sports and have less NFL experience than the janitor at One Bills Drive.

 

As I said, my problem is with people who post their takes as though they are gospel.   Enjoy it for the entertainment value but these two are highly unqualified to legitimately evaluate NFL football players.  

What you're saying is you trust people who almost never trash young QB's.

 

The people I assume you're talking about make it a point to not have controversial takes. You're very unlikely to hear Bill Polian or Trent Dilfer say a guy is a surefire bust even if they may privately believe it. 

Edited October 9, 2018 by LSHMEAB

[GreatComeback]

8 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said:

What you're saying is you trust people who almost never trash young QB's.

 

The people I assume you're talking about make it a point to not have controversial takes. You're very unlikely to hear Bill Polian or Trent Dilfer say a guy is a surefire bust even if they may privately believe it. 

 

No I trust the opinions of people who have actually held a position in the NFL.  Not just some fans passing as experts.  If you read their takes for entertainment then it’s cool, but these guys don’t have an informed opinion.  They are amateurs trying to pass themselves off as pros.  

[DuckyBoys]

Mayfield has looked great, rest look like nfl rookies.  Allen is not a finished product.  Your not going to see that till maybe end of 2019.   Maybe even 2020 season.  Long as he does not repeat the same mistakes he will be fine. He wasn't asked to do much against the Titans.  Texans are good against the run so I expect he will have to try and carry more of the load this Sunday.  So we can cheer for him to do well.  If he does you can put away the torches and pitchforks.  If he stinks it up all you haters can come on here and crow about.  Its how its going to be for  a while.

[GreatComeback]

3 minutes ago, DuckyBoys said:

Mayfield has looked great, rest look like nfl rookies.  Allen is not a finished product.  Your not going to see that till maybe end of 2019.   Maybe even 2020 season.  Long as he does not repeat the same mistakes he will be fine. He wasn't asked to do much against the Titans.  Texans are good against the run so I expect he will have to try and carry more of the load this Sunday.  So we can cheer for him to do well.  If he does you can put away the torches and pitchforks.  If he stinks it up all you haters can come on here and crow about.  Its how its going to be for  a while.

 

So we have to wait 3 years?  No we should have a good idea by the Of the year

[DuckyBoys]

1 minute ago, GreatComeback said:

 

So we have to wait 3 years?  No we should have a good idea by the Of the year

Good luck with that  Barring some kind of meltdown hes going to be here for years to come.  Goff was horrible year one and turned it around. Bradshaw was awful for years.  He's a smart guy, the pre snap stuff and knowing where to go with the football is going to get better.

[LSHMEAB]

2 minutes ago, GreatComeback said:

 

So we have to wait 3 years?  No we should have a good idea by the Of the year

That's my take here. 

 

It seems like people are setting up this idea that we're gonna have to wait YEARS before we know what we have with Allen. If we start seeing progress, we're all gonna be happy. That doesn't mean he's gonna light the league on fire. A)He's a rookie. B) The supporting cast is not good. That does not mean we'll have zero clue about Allen if he doesn't show signs of progress. At some point, if it doesn't work, we'll have to look elsewhere. That may be a ways off, but it's not 2025.