BigDingus Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 1 minute ago, LSHMEAB said: Yep! Schwartz had a legitimately elite unit. I don't see that here. Wasn't that defense just FUN to watch though? I mean, even when they allowed a decent amount of points, you knew they'd come back out there & put the fear of god into those QB's. Whether it was turnovers galore or racking up sack after sack, they were a unit that made you smile. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 1 minute ago, Jauronimo said: As you have repeatedly described, being historically bad is part of the plan. Having the worst offense and worst QB play in the modern era is part of the plan. Turning the ball over inside the 50 is part of the plan. Why would a top defense have trouble with a short field when everything is going to plan? McDermott and Beane have been preparing the defense for it all camp and preseason. Its all part of the plan. I see You actually have no point. I dont think they wanted to be "historically bad" on offense......they are just bad and are not doing anything to help the situation becasue a. They are dead cap strapped b. They are punting everything to next year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 sooooo I have to ask..... Does DVOA account for all the garbage time stats? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 10 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said: No there weren't. There were 4 turnovers---2 of which were immediately returned for TDs. Both of the Bears 2Q Offensive TDs came after Bills punts. Later, their third TD (and one of their FGs) came after Bills scores. One came after a long return on a punt. That was a short field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjd1001 Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 19 hours ago, RalphWilson'sNewWar said: I just don’t know how you build around a defense anymore. It’s just so hard to get 11-16 guys to play consistently at a high level for 48-64 games. Along with injuries, fatigue, familiarity and free agency. there have been some stellar defenses in the last 5-6 seasons but most them came and went in a blink of eye it seems like. 49ers Defense had a 2 season window Legion of Boom? What? 3 season window? Jaguars? 1 season? Broncos? 1-2 Seasons? defense is just not reliable IMO to be built upon for a long haul. I know what you mean and I agree with you. I have thought about this a lot and there really isn't a 100% solution. My best guess on how to do things? -Identify 4 stars on defense you want to have at any given time( Maybe 1 pass rusher, 1 interior line guy, 1 LB, and 1 shut down corner.) Pay them. Fill in the rest of the D with the 'best guys you can' between players on their rookie contract or street free agents. If in a given year the 'rest of the guys' aren't that good, you hope your 4 studs can carry your D unit to at least be average. If in a given year or two you find some diamonds in the rough with the 'rest of the guys', then you have a top 10 (maybe top 5) d-unit. Right now, the NFL average is to spend about $66 million dollars per year on Defense and about $71-$72 million on offense. I'd try to be near those figures...maybe SLIGHTLY more slanted toward the offense side of things as long as I can lock in my 4 stars on the D-side of the ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 7 minutes ago, dave mcbride said: One came after a long return on a punt. That was a short field. shhhh dont hurt their arguement.....they are now attacking McDermott's D along with the O (which is deserved) This D has been good....it gets absolutely no help Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jauronimo Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 5 minutes ago, John from Riverside said: I see You actually have no point. I dont think they wanted to be "historically bad" on offense......they are just bad and are not doing anything to help the situation becasue a. They are dead cap strapped b. They are punting everything to next year Being cap strapped was part of the plan. Are you telling me being THIS bad was NOT part of the plan? Was the plan to suck this year TOO successful? If so does that constitute success or failure?? Why weren't they planning for a contingency where they are historically great at being god awful? Seems like failing to plan for all contingencies is planning to fail even when the plan is to fail. Weird. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSHMEAB Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 10 minutes ago, dave mcbride said: One came after a long return on a punt. That was a short field. Why is their red zone defense amongst the worst in the league? Why is it so shocking when they give up field goals as opposed to TD's?(They did a nice job in the NE game) Is that part of the process? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 2 minutes ago, Jauronimo said: Being cap strapped was part of the plan. Are you telling me being THIS bad was NOT part of the plan? Was the plan to suck this year TOO successful? If so does that constitute success or failure?? Why weren't they planning for a contingency where they are historically great at being god awful? Seems like failing to plan for all contingencies is planning to fail even when the plan is to fail. Weird. Its called a rebiuld.....this year was the tough season of it......they are fixing former managements mess No I dont think they meant to be historically bad on offense....but it is what it is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDH Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 1 minute ago, John from Riverside said: Its called a rebiuld.....this year was the tough season of it......they are fixing former managements mess No I dont think they meant to be historically bad on offense....but it is what it is Its interesting to me that other successful teams were more than happy to take players from that former management’s mess. The Rams, Eagles and Chiefs to nake three. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jauronimo Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 Just now, John from Riverside said: Its called a rebiuld.....this year was the tough season of it......they are fixing former managements mess No I dont think they meant to be historically bad on offense....but it is what it is Not this ***** again. You were all about Cordy, Watkins, and Dareus and now that McBeane tells you they're bad you agree; "what a mess". McBeane chose cap hell. You're the one who started a thread declaring everything is going to plan. Care to rethink that idea? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSHMEAB Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 Just now, MDH said: Its interesting to me that other successful teams were more than happy to take players from that former management’s mess. The Rams, Eagles and Chiefs to nake three. Don't forget about the stupid Patriots. All those dumba*s teams paying players with such reckless abandon as we acquire 5th round picks and cap space galore! Winning! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 8 minutes ago, MDH said: Its interesting to me that other successful teams were more than happy to take players from that former management’s mess. The Rams, Eagles and Chiefs to nake three. I dont really have an answer to that to be honest......a change of scenery helped one......one of them is still a lazy POS not living up thos draft status (marcel).....some fit better in their schemes (Darby)......and some I wished were still here but didnt want to be (Woods) 8 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said: Don't forget about the stupid Patriots. All those dumba*s teams paying players with such reckless abandon as we acquire 5th round picks and cap space galore! Winning! The patriots WISHED they drafted as well as we do....... If they dont have a HOF QB none of it matters..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 25 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said: Why is their red zone defense amongst the worst in the league? Why is it so shocking when they give up field goals as opposed to TD's?(They did a nice job in the NE game) Is that part of the process? Is it factually one of the worst in the league? That is an honest question. I don't know the answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSHMEAB Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 (edited) 4 minutes ago, dave mcbride said: Is it factually one of the worst in the league? That is an honest question. I don't know the answer. We've improved over the last two weeks, so the red zone defense has skyrocketed to number 25 in the league allowing a TD on 66% of RZ possessions. Pretty sure we were dead last at 80% prior to the Houston game. Elite defenses do not allow TD's 2 of 3 times opponents reach the 20. It's a vital statistic. Edited November 7, 2018 by LSHMEAB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 (edited) 11 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said: We've improved over the last two weeks, so the red zone defense has skyrocketed to number 25 in the league allowing a TD on 66% of RZ possessions. Pretty sure we were dead last at 80% prior to the Houston game. Elite defenses do not allow TD's 2 of 3 times opponents reach the 20. It's a vital statistic. Agreed, but how often are teams getting to the red zone? The Bills' D is 3rd in the league in yards given up per drive and 8th in plays per drive. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/buf/2018.htm A huge problem for the D is that the O is 31st in turnovers given up. Edited November 7, 2018 by dave mcbride Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSHMEAB Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 2 minutes ago, dave mcbride said: Agreed, but how often are teams getting to the red zone? The Bills' D is 3rd in the league in yards given up per drive and 8th in plays per drive. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/buf/2018.htm A huge problem for the D is that the O is 31st in turnovers given up. I will grant you that there are extenuating circumstances around the RZ statistics. Nevertheless, it's not a blanket excuse. Tennessee has the top RZ defense and they don't exactly have a high powered offense. You could also make a case that the yards and play per drive statistics are aided by the fact that they're getting blown out when a large number of those possessions begin. Not nearly to the extent that total yards would be influenced, but it's still a factor. I'm not saying the defense is bad, but I also don't believe they are some great strength. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 40 minutes ago, Jauronimo said: Not this ***** again. You were all about Cordy, Watkins, and Dareus and now that McBeane tells you they're bad you agree; "what a mess". McBeane chose cap hell. You're the one who started a thread declaring everything is going to plan. Care to rethink that idea? Why are you making this more complicated then it needs to be? A new regime in place They want their own players Watkins already had admitted that he was a egotistical malcontent while he was here.... The Marcel contract was a big mistake (at the time we thought we were getting one of the best DT's in the league) I never agreed with the Cordy trade.......I wanted to try him on the RT side McBeane DID choose cap hell....for one year.....its a rebiuld and we are halfway through it I still believe this was planned why should I change my mind at this point.....everything points to it Your just upset because you in the instant grat crowd and dont agree with the way they did it........they are trying something different.....more of the same has not worked for this team Yes.....I agree they should try something different Just now, LSHMEAB said: I will grant you that there are extenuating circumstances around the RZ statistics. Nevertheless, it's not a blanket excuse. Tennessee has the top RZ defense and they don't exactly have a high powered offense. You could also make a case that the yards and play per drive statistics are aided by the fact that they're getting blown out when a large number of those possessions begin. Not nearly to the extent that total yards would be influenced, but it's still a factor. I'm not saying the defense is bad, but I also don't believe they are some great strength. They would look a lot better if the offense was not so putrid and continually leaving them in vulnerable positions Also.....we so this last week just how much Edmunds has become a important part of this defense already 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted November 8, 2018 Share Posted November 8, 2018 17 hours ago, dave mcbride said: One came after a long return on a punt. That was a short field. It wasn't a turnover. It was a poor punt too. Regardless, the D is allowed to stop the other O even on a short field. 17 hours ago, John from Riverside said: shhhh dont hurt their arguement.....they are now attacking McDermott's D along with the O (which is deserved) This D has been good....it gets absolutely no help How much help does the Jags offense give its D? The Titans? The Bills O was so inept that, with the TDs its surrendered, they kept their own offense on the bench for all but 26 min of the Chicago game. 17 hours ago, John from Riverside said: I dont really have an answer to that to be honest......a change of scenery helped one......one of them is still a lazy POS not living up thos draft status (marcel).....some fit better in their schemes (Darby)......and some I wished were still here but didnt want to be (Woods) The patriots WISHED they drafted as well as we do....... If they dont have a HOF QB none of it matters..... Ok now you're off the rails completely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted November 8, 2018 Author Share Posted November 8, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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