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Klaista2k

Someone needs to be fired over Mahomes right now.

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Am I thrilled with Allen so far?  No I'm not. 

 

At the same time, I am so freaking tired of threads like this.  Would we have been better off drafting him?  Absolutely no one can definitively say yes.  Weren't we saying the same thing about Watson by this time last season?  He looks very average so far this year and we just made him look pretty awful.  Dak Prescott was an MVP candidate his rookie year...then what?  Middle of the pack.

 

I'm not about to label Allen a bust and I'm not about to put Mahomes in the hall of fame.  One looks bad right now and one looks great but to use the sample size that we've have of both players and then make a black & white opinion is insane at best and ignorant at worst although not very out of line with how opinions are formed about everything else in this country.

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1 minute ago, OrtonHearsaWho said:

Am I thrilled with Allen so far?  No I'm not. 

 

At the same time, I am so freaking tired of threads like this.  Would we have been better off drafting him?  Absolutely no one can definitively say yes.  Weren't we saying the same thing about Watson by this time last season?  He looks very average so far this year and we just made him look pretty awful.  Dak Prescott was an MVP candidate his rookie year...then what?  Middle of the pack.

 

I'm not about to label Allen a bust and I'm not about to put Mahomes in the hall of fame.  One looks bad right now and one looks great but to use the sample size that we've have of both players and then make a black & white opinion is insane at best and ignorant at worst although not very out of line with how opinions are formed about everything else in this country.

 

You can't definitely say we'd be better off, but you can make a highly educated guess. 

 

Mahomes was an elite passer coming out of college. He needed to learn the NFL offense, but the ability to throw accurate passes all over the field was clearly there when evaluating him as a prospect. 

 

Allen was a mediocre QB in a terrible conference. He was a game manager in college who wasn't asked to do much. 

 

It's entirely fair to be critical of us passing on Mahomes for the same type of prospect as Allen. Mahomes looks amazing and Allen is hands down the worst starting QB in the league right now.

 

Why do we need to tear down other QBs to make our QB not look as bad? We'd be in the heart of the playoff race with any of the guys you mentioned. 

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8 minutes ago, OrtonHearsaWho said:

 

I'm not about to label Allen a bust and I'm not about to put Mahomes in the hall of fame.  One looks bad right now and one looks great but to use the sample size that we've have of both players and then make a black & white opinion is insane at best and ignorant at worst although not very out of line with how opinions are formed about everything else in this country.

 

Mahomes has put up 20 TDs in 6 games.

I'd bet the only QBs who have done that before are current elites or HOFers, so he's in really good company. 

 

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1 minute ago, TheElectricCompany said:

 

Mahomes has put up 20 TDs in 6 games.

I'd bet the only QBs who have done that before are current elites or HOFers, so he's in really good company. 

 

 

Also the other QB that I mentioned...Deshaun Watson.  Definitely looked elite yesterday.

 

Again I am not saying that he is not going to be great...he very well could be but it's also possible that he'll come back down to Earth once there is tape on him...like Watson...like Prescott.  Frankly I hope he stays just as good because the league could use the excitement but I'm not going to anoint him after 7 starts and I'm not ready to give up on Allen after 5 starts.

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3 minutes ago, OrtonHearsaWho said:

 

Also the other QB that I mentioned...Deshaun Watson.  Definitely looked elite yesterday.

 

Again I am not saying that he is not going to be great...he very well could be but it's also possible that he'll come back down to Earth once there is tape on him...like Watson...like Prescott.  Frankly I hope he stays just as good because the league could use the excitement but I'm not going to anoint him after 7 starts and I'm not ready to give up on Allen after 5 starts.

 

Deshaun Watson has been exponentially better than Josh Allen this year. 

 

He had a bad game yesterday against an elite defense, but over the course of the year he's averaging almost 300 yards per game passing, 8.3 YPA and a QB Rating of 90.8. 

 

If we had that type of QB play with our elite defense instead of the garbage we've had from Peterman and Allen, we'd likely be 4-2 or possibly 5-1 right now.

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5 hours ago, AllenWillBust said:

 

Ah yes, Bills fans making excuses, we do have the best fan base, the best at making excuses!

 

Apparently facts don't matter to you.    Is Allen surrounded by as much talent as Mahomes?   Did he sit for a year and learn from Reid and A. Smith.   Does Allen have anyone of the caliber (or near it) to Reid to discuss plays with during the game?   

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Ok outside perspective:

 

Mahomes - second year player with a talented WR/TE along with a super talented RB in Hunt.  He also has a average to slightly above average line..  (was labeled a minor project in his draft class that would help from sitting and learning which he did)

 

Judgement: any competent QB back there would  look good. Mahommes is above average in my opinion based on his ability extend plays circa Big Ben.

 

final thoughts: be a top 10 QB whose mistakes will cost them 2 or 3 games this year as his defense is not good enough overcome them. (2-3 loses included last nights game)

 

Allen - A rookie with a below average WR/TE as well as O Line. The only true known talent on theO is McCoy the Bills RB and he is 30 with a lot of wear and tear on his legs.  (Was also labeled as the best pure athlete in his draft class with the raw potential be a great QB bit needed time to develop.. was thrown into the fray his rookie year.

 

Judgement: you really can’t make one, he is what everyone thought he was a Raw talented player that needed time to develop who has ZERO  weapons around him make him look better than he currently is.  Be honest he been a perfect fit for a team like Nee Orleans or New England  with an aging, great QB, that he could learn behind and get himself up to NFL Speed... but he isn’t there and the he is learning the speed of the NFL on the fly. He has shown flashes of what makes him a top prospect but like most rookies also made dumb mistakes.  

Final thoughts: GIVE THE KID A BREAK! It be at least 2 years before you know if you got a true diamond in the ruff now. But the Bills will be competitive and should win their fare share of games and possibly knock on the playoff door again. (Lot of 3 and 4 loss teams already)

Edited by PatsFanNH
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35 minutes ago, OrtonHearsaWho said:

 

Also the other QB that I mentioned...Deshaun Watson.  Definitely looked elite yesterday.

 

Again I am not saying that he is not going to be great...he very well could be but it's also possible that he'll come back down to Earth once there is tape on him...like Watson...like Prescott.  Frankly I hope he stays just as good because the league could use the excitement but I'm not going to anoint him after 7 starts and I'm not ready to give up on Allen after 5 starts.

 

What is the tape going to tell you about Mahomes? Do you think defenses have some secret weapon they can pull out? 

If a QB can throw with tremendous accuracy and anticipation down the field, it's over. No defense can shut down that down. 

He scored 23 points against an elite defense last week. He torched the Pats for 40 points yesterday on the road. 

Funny how we're expecting all the young guns like Trubisky, Mahomes and Goff to cool off with "tape"
 

 

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2 minutes ago, TheElectricCompany said:

 

What is the tape going to tell you about Mahomes? Do you think defenses have some secret weapon they can pull out? 

If a QB can throw with tremendous accuracy and anticipation down the field, it's over. No defense can shut down that down. 

He scored 23 points against an elite defense last week. He torched the Pats for 40 points yesterday on the road. 

Funny how we're expecting all the young guns like Trubisky, Mahomes and Goff to cool off with "tape"
 

 

 

The other things that those QBs have - a supporting cast and capable offensive coaching staffs.

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3 minutes ago, OrtonHearsaWho said:

 

The other things that those QBs have - a supporting cast and capable offensive coaching staffs.

 

Of course, but those are complimentary pieces. 

The #1 reason those QBs look great is because they can consistently throw with great accuracy and anticipation down the field. 

That's really what elite QB play comes down

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12 minutes ago, TheElectricCompany said:

 

Of course, but those are complimentary pieces. 

The #1 reason those QBs look great is because they can consistently throw with great accuracy and anticipation down the field. 

That's really what elite QB play comes down

 

I don't disagree with you at all.

 

My main reason for commenting is because of the tenor of the OP.  I get the knee jerk reactions to the team but relitigating draft picks is such a constant theme here (likely on all other teams boards as well) that it drives me insane.

 

It's a whole lot easier to look at Mahomes and say "yeah he's going to be great for a while" because he has one more off-season under his belt and because those complimentary pieces (surrounding talent & coaching) are likely going to be around for a while.  My reaction is in response to the number of people writing off Allen so quickly.  He might be a bust and he might not be but to make declarations (again others here - I'm not pointing a finger) with SUCH certainly this early in his development is crazy.

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9 hours ago, BullBuchanan said:

The Chiefs Offense looks every bit the equal of the 99 Rams. I agree that we should've taken a QB that year, but the smart money was Watson there. Mahommes would have been a bust here - he wouldn't have had the veteran QB leadership, Hall of Fame coach, Tyreek Hill, Kareem Hunt, Travis Kelce, OLine, etc. that he has in KC. Mahommes has looked excellent so far, but Hill, Hunt, and Kelce were wrecking people with Alex Smith at the helm.

 

Hill/Hunt made Mahommes look better than he played today

It is ok. Might want to bone up on the history of that country you pretend to care about so much.

If you're trying to question my patriotism or my knowledge of the United States I do believe you just crossed the line. 

 

I suggest you take a long look at what goes on during the national anthem at chefs games. Then start looking on line and you'll see chefs fans complaining about players taking a knee while not wearing a hat and looking at the flag while the national anthem is being played.

 

As for mahommes, I couldn't care any less than I do right now about him. I watched the game, and on the last td play he threw look close, he had time in the pocket (better line than the bills), then look at hill get wide open and still have to jump for a pass that was over thrown, he adjusted made a good catch and then out ran every player on the field. I suppose that's all because mahommes right? NO. Again, he needs to show he can have success for more than 6 games and more than 1 year (see Prescott in Dallas and Watson in Houston, or Winstead in Tampa, better yet Kaepernick).

 

There is no comparing a true rookie like Allen to a second year player. mahommes had the luxury of sitting and learning the offense for an entire year behind Smith, he also has the luxury of having some damn good offensive coaches. Again, I'll reserve my judgement on him until he can show he's not a pretender like the others. 

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1 hour ago, jrober38 said:

 

Deshaun Watson has been exponentially better than Josh Allen this year. 

 

He had a bad game yesterday against an elite defense, but over the course of the year he's averaging almost 300 yards per game passing, 8.3 YPA and a QB Rating of 90.8. 

 

If we had that type of QB play with our elite defense instead of the garbage we've had from Peterman and Allen, we'd likely be 4-2 or possibly 5-1 right now.

That’s right. Watson, Prescott - both have struggled this season. There are legitimate questions about both of them as long term franchise guys. But ... there’s no comparison with Allen or Peterman. If Watson were a baseball player, he’d be that guy hovering around .230 but on pace to hit 30 HRs. Allen would be the guy at .150 on pace to strikeout 220 times. There are graduations of “not good” you know. 

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5 hours ago, TheElectricCompany said:

 

What is the tape going to tell you about Mahomes? Do you think defenses have some secret weapon they can pull out? 

If a QB can throw with tremendous accuracy and anticipation down the field, it's over. No defense can shut down that down. 

He scored 23 points against an elite defense last week. He torched the Pats for 40 points yesterday on the road. 

Funny how we're expecting all the young guns like Trubisky, Mahomes and Goff to cool off with "tape"
 

 

And you thought Geoff was a bust his first year too, so who cares till Allen gets some time to figure things out and gets some real weapons...

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1 minute ago, Fred Clause said:

And you thought Geoff was a bust his first year too, so who cares till Allen gets some time to figure things out and gets some real weapons...

Why would weapons matter? Once teams get tape on him, he’s done. Just like Mahomes.

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36 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said:

Why would weapons matter? Once teams get tape on him, he’s done. Just like Mahomes.

Just cause you don’t like Allen, doesn’t mean you have to post like a loser....or maybe you do...

Edited by Fred Clause

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6 hours ago, jrober38 said:

 

You can't definitely say we'd be better off, but you can make a highly educated guess. 

 

Mahomes was an elite passer coming out of college. He needed to learn the NFL offense, but the ability to throw accurate passes all over the field was clearly there when evaluating him as a prospect. 

 

Allen was a mediocre QB in a terrible conference. He was a game manager in college who wasn't asked to do much. 

 

It's entirely fair to be critical of us passing on Mahomes for the same type of prospect as Allen. Mahomes looks amazing and Allen is hands down the worst starting QB in the league right now.

 

Why do we need to tear down other QBs to make our QB not look as bad? We'd be in the heart of the playoff race with any of the guys you mentioned. 

 

Allen was a game manager in college? Is this for real? 

 

Josh Allen WAS their offense. After we drafted him I went and watched pretty much every Wyoming game the 2 years he started. He put that whole team on his shoulders numerous times. You may not like him now, but he was viewed among GM's as a top 10 pick for a reason.

 

It's funny because the Buffalo Bills are kind of like the "Wyoming Cowboys" of the NFL. Wyoming actually fielded one of the nations top defenses during Allens tenure, they just lacked a good offensive line and play makers. Sound familiar?  

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1 minute ago, Fred Clause said:

Just cause you don’t like Allen, doesn’t mean you have to post like a loser....or maybe you ....

I like Allen just fine. I’m just worried that if Mahomes can go from star to bum because of tape, what will Allen go to? 20 yards passing per game?

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On 10/1/2018 at 11:05 PM, Klaista2k said:

Seriously how the !@#$ did we not take this guy?

 

This guy is !@#$ing sensational and might be the best quarterback in the league for YEARS to come.

 

Not taking him is absolutely inexcusable and someone needs to be fired for this epic mistake. 

 

Then you should be one fired since you stated "we not take this guy" obviously you were involved.

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21 hours ago, BringBackOrton said:

Ha ha, yes he won a Super Bowl as a walking corpse.  That's was my point.

 

I'm confused. Is an elite QB essential to win or not?

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7 hours ago, jrober38 said:

 

Deshaun Watson has been exponentially better than Josh Allen this year. 

 

He had a bad game yesterday against an elite defense, but over the course of the year he's averaging almost 300 yards per game passing, 8.3 YPA and a QB Rating of 90.8

 

If we had that type of QB play with our elite defense instead of the garbage we've had from Peterman and Allen, we'd likely be 4-2 or possibly 5-1 right now.

 

Nothing against your point here....just a personal quest of mine to get people to reconsider using the QBR stat instead of "Passer Rating"  Passer rating is poor stat for determining the effectiveness of the QB because that stat takes all yards, turnovers etc and counts them equally.  A completion of 5 yards on 3rd and 14 is a poor football play, but passer rating takes it as a completion, 5 yards gained, etc.  An interception in the red zone at the end of the 1st half is a poor play, but if you threw that from the 50 as time expired, taking a hail mary shot before the half, that interception isn't a poor play, it's a throw away lottery ticket at 6....but passer rating considers that to be just as bad as an interception in the red zone, down by 4 with 5 minutes left in the 4th quarter.  QBR isn't perfect, but it takes these sorts of things into consideration and gives a more accurate reflection of what your QB is doing. 

 

1 Patrick Mahomes, KC  84.9

2 Drew Brees, NO  79.0

3 Jared Goff, LAR  78.7

4 Philip Rivers, LAC  78.2

5 Ryan Fitzpatrick, TB  75.4

6 Tom Brady, NE 72.0

7 Kirk Cousins, MIN 70.2

8 Matt Ryan, ATL 68.4

9 Ben Roethlisberger, PIT 67.5

10 Andy Dalton, CIN 62.3 

11 Mitchell Trubisky, CHI 62.3

12 Carson Wentz, PHI  59.9

13 Joe Flacco, BAL 57.3

14 Andrew Luck,  56.2 

15 Aaron Rodgers, GB 55.9

16 Deshaun Watson, HOU  55.0

17 Blake Bortles, JAX 54.3

18 Cam Newton, CAR 53.8

19 Dak Prescott, DAL  51.5

20 Matthew Stafford, DET  51.4

21 Marcus Mariota, TEN 50.4

22 Alex Smith, WSH  49.9

23 Baker Mayfield, CLE 49.1

24 Russell Wilson, SEA  47.7

25 Sam Darnold, NYJ  44.7

26 Derek Carr, OAK 43.8

27 Eli Manning, NYG  41.4

28 C.J. Beathard, SF 40.6

29 Case Keenum, DEN  38.8

30 Ryan Tannehill, MIA  33.6

31 Josh Allen, BUF

32 Jimmy Garoppolo, SF 29.5

33 Tyrod Taylor, CLE 29.1

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1 hour ago, BringBackOrton said:

I like Allen just fine. I’m just worried that if Mahomes can go from star to bum because of tape, what will Allen go to? 20 yards passing per game?

There is a big difference though Mahomes came out firing after sitting a year and teams are adjusting after being shell shocked. Allen is learning on the field and has to deal with teams adjusting to him as he goes.

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1 hour ago, Zerovotlz said:

 

Nothing against your point here....just a personal quest of mine to get people to reconsider using the QBR stat instead of "Passer Rating"  Passer rating is poor stat for determining the effectiveness of the QB because that stat takes all yards, turnovers etc and counts them equally.  A completion of 5 yards on 3rd and 14 is a poor football play, but passer rating takes it as a completion, 5 yards gained, etc.  An interception in the red zone at the end of the 1st half is a poor play, but if you threw that from the 50 as time expired, taking a hail mary shot before the half, that interception isn't a poor play, it's a throw away lottery ticket at 6....but passer rating considers that to be just as bad as an interception in the red zone, down by 4 with 5 minutes left in the 4th quarter.  QBR isn't perfect, but it takes these sorts of things into consideration and gives a more accurate reflection of what your QB is doing. 

 

I like QBR.

 

Any way you slice it Allen has been junk this year. 

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Someone also needs to be fired for not drafting CJ Beathard when we had the chance 

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