Gordio Posted October 22, 2018 Share Posted October 22, 2018 2 minutes ago, John from Riverside said: Why Go back and read a little further Gordio To the first question, I will spell it out for you. The Bills needed a QB, they have passed on QBs before in the past. 2 potential franchise QBs were sitting right in their lap at #10 & they decided to do the very Billsy thing of trading down & drafting another CB. Fast forward a year & half later & both QBs look to be keepers not to mention the guy we traded up for this prior draft looks to be very raw & there are a lot of questions about him. 2nd question, I guess he could of left the last sentence out. Nothing really crazy though & certainly not worth a suspension. I have seen much worse go unpunished on this board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stony Posted October 22, 2018 Share Posted October 22, 2018 Just now, John from Riverside said: You mean he lets the football people make the football decisions and he stays the owner that’s awful If true, it's actually my favorite part of the Pegula's approach to franchise ownership. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordio Posted October 22, 2018 Share Posted October 22, 2018 2 minutes ago, John from Riverside said: You mean he lets the football people make the football decisions and he stays the owner that’s awful No, that he lets a guy run a draft that he had every intention of firing shortly after the draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted October 22, 2018 Share Posted October 22, 2018 32 minutes ago, thebandit27 said: My understanding (and take this however you like) is that Whaley ran that draft. FWIW, Leroi was adamant that that was the case as well. I'm happy to have it either way. Would just like some clarity and confirmation so folks could discuss properly here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
17 Josh Allen Posted October 22, 2018 Share Posted October 22, 2018 Taking bets he will break the all time single season record. Great Job Buffalo Bills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SDS Posted October 22, 2018 Share Posted October 22, 2018 2 hours ago, 17 Josh Allen said: So if your tired of reading this thread then just don’t open it up any more and go about your business. As the owner of the community, this is my business. I have given fair warning that the constant vitriol in this topic towards other posters and events that occurred 18 months ago has run its course. I am willing to keep the topic open because Mahomes is having a season worth discussing. It will be closed if it is only going to be used as a base to launch weekly attacks on everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rc2catch Posted October 22, 2018 Share Posted October 22, 2018 (edited) 3 hours ago, Zerovotlz said: Go watch Mahome week 17 last year when he played 3 quarters of the game with all back ups. He looked like he looks now. Then read the Broncos post game comments. Three quarters with backups was enough to sell them. second, if you believe 85% of QB could put up the same numbers as Mahomes, then trading away a first and a third for a QB in a draft loaded with high end defensive talent, that KC is in dire need of, would seem like a poor way to use draft capital when you could have signed McCaron, Bridgewater, Keemum, Bradford, McCown, Tyrod, Cutler, Fitzmagic, etc. I would contend that no where near 85% could, and thats why he went and got Mahomes Alex Smith.. nuff said. How’s he look in Washington this year without those weapons? How’d he look last year in KC? This point of the season last year everyone was talking Alex Smith mvp of the league. Hes an average quarterback and always has been, but Reid was able to hide a lot of his inabilities and made him look pretty good. It wasn’t until mid to late season everyone figured them out. I’m in no way saying Mahomes is bad, just not worthy of the hype he gets on this board. As far as week 17 last year I mean does that really say anything? That’s more a preseason game than say a playoff game? If he was so lights out why run Alex Smith out for the playoffs? If people want to jump on the Mahomes train so be it, not my place to judge. But at least wait to get too crazy until December and January when the games start meaning more, and defenses have the tape on this scheme Reid has been using. And maybe 85% is a large number lol, not saying they can match his stats exactly cause as I said he’s not a scrub. Let’s use Blake Bortles for example, I think he could have similar numbers through this many games in KC if he was on their team last year and had the offseason to prepare as the starting quarterback and Reid could gameplan and setup a playbook built to his strengths Edited October 22, 2018 by Rc2catch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted October 22, 2018 Share Posted October 22, 2018 (edited) 34 minutes ago, Gordio said: To the first question, I will spell it out for you. The Bills needed a QB, they have passed on QBs before in the past. 2 potential franchise QBs were sitting right in their lap at #10 & they decided to do the very Billsy thing of trading down & drafting another CB. Fast forward a year & half later & both QBs look to be keepers not to mention the guy we traded up for this prior draft looks to be very raw & there are a lot of questions about him. 2nd question, I guess he could of left the last sentence out. Nothing really crazy though & certainly not worth a suspension. I have seen much worse go unpunished on this board. Is it really so hard to connect the dots the following draft was supposed to be one of the better drafts we were about to lose Gilmore I. Free agency abd to be perfectly honest unless you have a predisposed opinion of josh Allen we don’t even know how this trade has worked out for us yet maybe they just didn’t do it the way YOU wanted to do it which is ok second challenging the mgt of this board when your in apparent violation of one of the rules is never a good idea Edited October 22, 2018 by John from Riverside Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Real McClappy Posted October 22, 2018 Share Posted October 22, 2018 (edited) 22 minutes ago, Rc2catch said: Alex Smith.. nuff said. How’s he look in Washington this year without those weapons? How’d he look last year in KC? This point of the season last year everyone was talking Alex Smith mvp of the league. Hes an average quarterback and always has been, but Reid was able to hide a lot of his inabilities and made him look pretty good. Not wasn’t until mid to late season everyone figured them out. I’m in no way saying Mahomes is bad, just not worthy of the hype he gets on this board. As far as week 17 last year I mean does that really say anything? That’s more a preseason game than say a playoff game? If he was so lights out why run Alex Smith out for the playoffs? If people want to jump on the Mahomes train so be it, not my place to judge. But at least wait to get too crazy until December and January when the games start meaning more, and defenses have the tape on this scheme Reid has been using. I'll take an "average" QB with a 73-33 record since 2011. KC went to Mahomes to take them to the next level which is happening before your eyes. Edited October 22, 2018 by Real McCoy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starrymessenger Posted October 22, 2018 Share Posted October 22, 2018 (edited) 3 hours ago, davefan66 said: Hindsight allows us to look at the trade and see it was probably a bad move when strictly looking at Mahomes and his current season. Yeah, looks bad. Doesn’t mean he’d be this good here. Much better offensive talent on the Chiefs, and a coaching staff getting their all from the team. Can’t compare Allen and Mahomes unless they havensimiliar offensive talent and coaching. If Allen does become a good QB, and White and Edmunds continue to play like they are, then maybe the trade is even. No doubt that, unlike Allen, PM was drafted into an ideal situation. The same smarts in evaluating talent on the offensive side of things that led the Chiefs to trade up for him is evident in their other selections as well, most notably in a couple of their mid round picks. They really don't miss much. And their competence goes beyond scouting and is equally evident in knowing how best to use the tools they have, in developing an overall philosophy and in implementing the practical applications through play design and in game play calling. Mahomes would have none of that in Buffalo so it's safe to conclude that his stat sheet would reflect that. Nevertheless he would still be the same extraordinary talent. Accuracy, field vision and arm strength were all things that were abundantly evident in his college tape. Footwork and the historically bad performance of air raid QBs transitioning to the pros were the negatives. Allen also has mechanical issues to address but the only positive things where he compares well with PM for now is arm strength and mobility. Unfortunately the other things on the checklist, field vision, processing ability & consistent accuracy are by far the most important and the most difficult to develop. Mahomes showed that he could do those things early on. I don't disagree with you that if Allen can develop into a franchise guy the trade down will look a lot better than it does today. I give Allen a better chance of reaching all or most of his potential than some other posters. To me he is/was entirely legit as a high first round selection so that even if he busts I would say the pick was justified by the talent. His physical traits are elite, and he often enough displays excellent accuracy, albeit not consistently. His intangibles are off the charts. But one also has to acknowledge the risk. If Allen succeeds he will be very much the exception to the rule. Nevertheless I continue to believe that he may very well prove to be that rare outlier we all hope he is. To me the risk reward profile is a lot more favourable than it was with EJ for example. Edited October 22, 2018 by starrymessenger 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted October 22, 2018 Share Posted October 22, 2018 It's not just Mahomes. KC is 7-0 on Coin Flips this season. Whoever hired our coin flip caller instead of KCs should also be fired. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSHMEAB Posted October 22, 2018 Share Posted October 22, 2018 (edited) 4 hours ago, Gordio said: I was all in for picking Watson or Mahomes. I have been on record about this. I will admit my first choice was Watson which looks like that would of been a mistake too. I hope Allen works out but I have serious doubts. People that watch College Football & watched Allen saw that he wasn't very good. My first choice was Darnold, followed by Rosen & then Mayfield. I wanted nothing to do with Allen. I think this was a case where a team falls in love with the big arm QB, problem is he has no idea how to play QB & he is not accurate. I hope I am wrong. Yep. That's pretty much where I was at. My first choice was Watson. I wanted no part of Trubisky and I wasn't really sure about Mahomes. I feel like I was correct in wanting to avoid Trubisky. Nagy is an offensive guru and Mitch simply doesn't react quicky enough to make the reads. Watson does not look like a franchise QB. I wasn't all that impressed with him even last season when he was putting up huge numbers. Patrick Mahomes looks like a generational talent. The worst thing a person can do is get stuck in a narrative and not adapt to the facts on the ground. This season, I honestly didn't love any of the QB's, but Rosen and Mayfield looked like the best of the bunch. I STILL don't believe in Darnold, but time will tell. I wanted NO PART OF JOSH ALLEN. Way too many red flags. If the facts change, I will acknowledge that they've changed. Edited October 22, 2018 by LSHMEAB 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoTier Posted October 22, 2018 Share Posted October 22, 2018 1 hour ago, ScottLaw said: This makes little sense. So Terry loved Mahomes but let Whaley trade down instead of take him and then said alright your fired for doing that? Why wouldnt he just say, "Doug, take Mahomes". I don't buy it. I thought that McDermott ran the 2017 draft because he won the power struggle over the Bills draft board. IIRC, the story was that Whaley wanted Watson. That would seem to make sense since he was officially fired the day after the draft, but that was when all the Bills cheerleaders were hyping the great Tre White pick and Mahomes was just this KC QB who was "nothing special". Now that Mahomes seems to be "the real deal" and isn't a flash in the pan, the narrative is changing to lay the blame for passing on Mahomes -- and Watson -- on Whaley, but of course, McDermott still gets credit for the FA signing of Poyer and Hyde. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
17 Josh Allen Posted October 22, 2018 Share Posted October 22, 2018 (edited) 32 minutes ago, SDS said: As the owner of the community, this is my business. I have given fair warning that the constant vitriol in this topic towards other posters and events that occurred 18 months ago has run its course. I am willing to keep the topic open because Mahomes is having a season worth discussing. It will be closed if it is only going to be used as a base to launch weekly attacks on everyone. I ask this respectfully. Where were you when the constant Vitriol was directed at me and jeffsmagic and others on why Mahomes should have been drafted by the Bills. It got so bad Jeffsmagic quit the stadium wall. I never saw any warnings from you about that. It was ok for us to get verbally abused on this forum and people cheered it on. I’m a big boy I can take it. Now the shoe is on the other foot and we see Mahomes is the next farve. So now that this is happening some of us are calling the Bills out for it. I want to hear from you on this subject and did you agree with the Bills trading with the chiefs. I guess what I’m saying is, why was it ok 18 months ago to give Mahomes lovers Vitriol in these forums and nothing was done about it. Now we stand up for Mahomes and call the Bills out and the people who gave us Vitriol and now we’re the bad guys. How about be fair about this. I agree we need to keep it civil and respectful. But some of us are not happy with the way were were treated. This post is respectfully submitted. Edited October 22, 2018 by 17 Josh Allen 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rc2catch Posted October 22, 2018 Share Posted October 22, 2018 22 minutes ago, Real McCoy said: I'll take an "average" QB with a 73-33 record since 2011. KC went to Mahomes to take them to the next level which is happening before your eyes. The next level is playoff wins??? Right? How many playoff wins does he have? Hit me up in February and let’s see Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted October 22, 2018 Share Posted October 22, 2018 ..this horse has been beaten more times than any recent Tuh-rod thread........good Lord................. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoTier Posted October 22, 2018 Share Posted October 22, 2018 31 minutes ago, Rc2catch said: Alex Smith.. nuff said. How’s he look in Washington this year without those weapons? How’d he look last year in KC? This point of the season last year everyone was talking Alex Smith mvp of the league. Hes an average quarterback and always has been, but Reid was able to hide a lot of his inabilities and made him look pretty good. It wasn’t until mid to late season everyone figured them out. I’m in no way saying Mahomes is bad, just not worthy of the hype he gets on this board. As far as week 17 last year I mean does that really say anything? That’s more a preseason game than say a playoff game? If he was so lights out why run Alex Smith out for the playoffs? If people want to jump on the Mahomes train so be it, not my place to judge. But at least wait to get too crazy until December and January when the games start meaning more, and defenses have the tape on this scheme Reid has been using. And maybe 85% is a large number lol, not saying they can match his stats exactly cause as I said he’s not a scrub. Let’s use Blake Bortles for example, I think he could have similar numbers through this many games in KC if he was on their team last year and had the offseason to prepare as the starting quarterback and Reid could gameplan and setup a playbook built to his strengths Dude, have you actually watched Mahomes play???? I was very skeptical of him last season and early this season, but that kid is special. He'd be a star on just about any team he played on with the possible except of McDermott's Bills. Andy Reid's offensive savvy simply enhances his natural talents but then he did that with most of his previous QBs as well ... Donovan McNabb, Michael Vick, Alex Smith, too. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bangarang Posted October 22, 2018 Share Posted October 22, 2018 With the way McD and BB have handled Allen’s development, does anyone have any confidence they would have brought the best out of Mahomes? It probably wouldn’t have mattered who we drafted because this regime is utterly clueless when it comes to offense. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
17 Josh Allen Posted October 22, 2018 Share Posted October 22, 2018 The Bills in my opinion would be 4-2 in Mahomes was their QB this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Real McClappy Posted October 22, 2018 Share Posted October 22, 2018 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Rc2catch said: The next level is playoff wins??? Right? How many playoff wins does he have? Hit me up in February and let’s see Time will tell all and we both agree there. Mahomes as young as he is, is already better than Alex Smith. Give him a couple more years and you will see him in Super Bowls. He's already playing like a top 3 QB in the AFC. Where does that leave him once Brady and Ben retire in the next couple years? Good luck for your game tape to play out. KC is a DC coordinator nightmare right now with their weapons. Edited October 22, 2018 by Real McCoy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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