K-9 Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 Just now, ddaryl said: Yes I did... I don't think it was anything else but that Allen had options he just didn't see them or make the right calls Then you are utterly incapable of discerning a compliment to an opponent vs. offering an excuse for a bad QB performance. I submit it is your outrage that prevents you from being able to so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 It’s all about how he responds. These should be great learning experiences. I just hope he doesn’t acquire happy feet or a serious injury - that’s my biggest concern. He’ll put in the work if they can keep him healthy. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 Just now, Coach Tuesday said: It’s all about how he responds. These should be great learning experiences. I just hope he doesn’t acquire happy feet or a serious injury - that’s my biggest concern. He’ll put in the work if they can keep him healthy. Yep. All that matters is how he gets off the mat and learns from the experience or not. Same goes for Daboll and everyone else with their spoons in the stew. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teef Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 19 minutes ago, K-9 said: Adult outrage indeed. And it’s indicative of how ridiculous fans can be. No where in any of that adult outrage is one, small tip of the hat to Pettine and the schemes he devised to confuse a rookie QB in one of the NFL’s toughest road venues. Never mind that Pettine has done that to good veteran QBs over the years and that we used to give him that credit when he was running our defense. absolutely. pettine had a plan that completely shut the bills down, not that it's terribly hard to figure out right now. allen was bad. really bad, but in now way should it be indicative of his entire career...or at least i hope. 19 minutes ago, NewDayBills said: I know, right? The funny thing is with QBs, they are different from every other position in football, truth is, even average QBs can turn into good ones when they hit 30 and hell they may even play till their 40. QBs like Mahomes and Watson are anomalies, not the standard, you got to give them credit, they're exceptional. Look at QBs like Josh McCown, career backup for 75% of his career, now here he is in his 30s and he's actually a decent QB. Hell, Andy Dalton was OK for years now I think at 30 his best football is still ahead of him. QBs are like fine wine, they get better as they age. Even Bortles and Mariota I'd still say the jury is out on them. Bills fans may not want to hear but it may take awhile before Allen fully develops, fans want it now, but it may take awhile. rich gannon always comes to mind when i think of late bloomers. he was in his 30s if i remember correctly when he really came on. even won the mvp when he was with the raiders during that stretch. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 I think Allen needs to show some more patience in the pocket. 1 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teef Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 20 minutes ago, HappyDays said: Really? Holmes and Jones both dropped well thrown balls in tight coverage. Holmes dropped a sure 1st down completion which Allen threw to the sideline on a rope. If you don't consider that a drop you aren't being fair. jones and holmes had at minimum one. a lot of the incompletions were thrown away balls to avoid sacks. not that those aren't allen's fault, but it adds to the bad passing stats. 12 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said: It’s all about how he responds. These should be great learning experiences. I just hope he doesn’t acquire happy feet or a serious injury - that’s my biggest concern. He’ll put in the work if they can keep him healthy. good call. i'll be impressed if he can continue to take a beating and still stand at the end of the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 Just now, teef said: absolutely. pettine had a plan that completely shut the bills down, not that it's terribly hard to figure out right now. allen was bad. really bad, but in now way should it be indicative of his entire career...or at least i hope. Pettine, like most good DCs when they control down and distance, dialed up some looks and pressures that had Allen completely baffled and he (Allen) was no where near capable of beating it. To say he sucked is an understatement. My bigger concern was Daboll’s ineffectiveness at helping to keep Allen out of unmanageable down and distance situations. It’s not like he hadn’t seen Pettine’s schemes before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teef Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 1 minute ago, K-9 said: Pettine, like most good DCs when they control down and distance, dialed up some looks and pressures that had Allen completely baffled and he (Allen) was no where near capable of beating it. To say he sucked is an understatement. My bigger concern was Daboll’s ineffectiveness at helping to keep Allen out of unmanageable down and distance situations. It’s not like he hadn’t seen Pettine’s schemes before. with the ol and wr problems, is this even much of a possibility? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColoradoBills Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 2 minutes ago, K-9 said: Pettine, like most good DCs when they control down and distance, dialed up some looks and pressures that had Allen completely baffled and he (Allen) was no where near capable of beating it. To say he sucked is an understatement. My bigger concern was Daboll’s ineffectiveness at helping to keep Allen out of unmanageable down and distance situations. It’s not like he hadn’t seen Pettine’s schemes before. It seems to me that Daboll game planned to stress pushing the football down the field. The entire offense failed to do that. That includes all units, the OL, WRs, QB, TEs and RBs. If that was his plan I'm glad he stuck with it to show everyone that big personnel changes need to be made if improvements aren't made. He can always go back to a more "Vikings game" type of game plan. This year should be about evaluation. Looking for the deficiencies and not hiding them is what's needed. I expect a more balanced game plan in front of the home crowd Sunday. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ittakestime Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, teef said: well...he must have shown some promise in college so he never would have been considered such a high pick. i don't say that to defend him, but that he's shown zero ability to grow mentally is just absurd. can you quantify that? i just don't get why people are acting like a rookie who has played 3 games should be super far along. i bet last week you saw some progression, didn't you. well, we'll see some games like that, and some games like yesterday. I seen great circumstances last week. I didn't see presnap and post snap progression. The Croom TD was nice, but you could tell that was who he was going to from the start. Watch his college games and tell me if you see progression. For Allen it has always been his supporting cast, at what point is it him? Edited October 1, 2018 by Ittakestime Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 1 hour ago, Wayne Arnold said: Ok, great. Then we can definitively blame the receivers and say “get this stud some help at wideout “. But when Allen turtles and holds the ball and gets sacked, that’s on Allen. Even if he is holding the ball because nobody is open? Or do we want him to throw into coverage and throw picks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teef Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 5 minutes ago, Ittakestime said: I seen great circumstances last week. I didn't see presnap and post snap progression. The Croom TD was nice, but you could tell that was who he was going to from the start. Watch his college games and tell me if you see progression. For Allen it has always been his supporting cast, at what point is it him? first, this was your comment : "However, people need to stop acting like Allen showed any promise in college". you didn't mention anything about progression. second, i can't get over the bolded. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrizzReaper Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 (edited) You guys all knew this kid was raw... He had a bad game trying to read a Mike Pettine defense. Pettines is known for having some exotic advanced disguises built into his scheme. He is on his 3rd start and had to try to dissect a advanced defense. Yeah it was a bad game... He didn't look rattled he looked bewildered. He needs to learn how to take what he's given. He needs to learn to get the ball out much faster. He needs to learn to stay in the pocket and stop rolling right. So on and so forth... The kids has to learn... It's going to take time. Let it play out. After 16 games maybe a few into next year when maybe he has a better line and WR options then if he has a game like yesterday then yeah he's probably a bust. Game 3 against Pettines defense in Green Bay? That's asking a lot of a guy who came into the NFL labeled a raw talent from the jump. It's going to take time for him to learn to read different defenses and learn all the ways different d coordinators disguise blitzes and coverage. Yesterday he simply wasn't read for that. He has to learn... A lot. I can say it was rediclous the number of times they sent a blitz straight through the middle of our line. Off the top of my head it happened like 6 times... Same LB Everytime straight through the gap. How that wasn't adjusted to is beyond me. The WRs did get open a few times fast. I saw it from home. He missed some quick shots he's gotta learn to read and react quicker. Im sure when someone goes through that all 22 they'll see those guys getting open even if just for a split second a few times that game. I saw it from home and yelled at my tv plenty about the missed opportunities... But hey he has to learn. He'll see it on the cut ups himself and hopefully he learns from it. The run game... What the hell happened to our run game? They just abandoned it completely. And yeah Green Bay got up early but they had a solid half of ball to try to get the run game going some. They could've made up the point deficit without abandoning the run game wholesale. That's on Daboll... You have LeSean McCoy and Ivory there waiting to be used. Use them. They are more reliable than your rookie QB at this point in his career. The way Daboll called this offense this tilt really worries me. We can't abandon the run like that... We have no WR talent a rookie QB and a future happy of Fame RB. Use the damn future Hall of famer... It was a ugly game all around. I will say our defense wasn't bad. Not stellar but they tried to keep us in it. The offense did them no favors yesterday. Oh and that punter.. that guys money. My new favorite Bill. Edited October 1, 2018 by GrizzReaper Stupid auto correct... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Arnold Posted October 1, 2018 Author Share Posted October 1, 2018 1 hour ago, HappyDays said: If there are no open receivers and he tries but fails to leave the pocket that isn't his fault. On some plays the sack is the right decision. If he's missing hot routes that's on him. 35 minutes ago, John from Riverside said: Even if he is holding the ball because nobody is open? Or do we want him to throw into coverage and throw picks There are always receivers open enough to be thrown to in the NFL. Every play. Look at Rosen's pass that I posted in this thread. That receiver wasn't remotely open. Rosen threw him open with a perfect pass. Allen needs to throw those. If that results in more picks because Allen isn't throwing an accurate ball, then we can blame his accuracy instead of his tentativeness. If that results in more picks because his receivers have no ball skills, then we can blame his receivers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsredneck1 Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 (edited) 4 hours ago, OrediggerPoke said: If you were actually a Bills fan, why would you create such a ridiculous name and actively root for such a circumstance? It makes no sense unless you have some real issues that go far beyond football. I can't believe all of the negative towards Josh Allen. Very surprising. Here is a gifted competitor that is in his 3rd career game coming from the Mountain West Conference and being put on a team with relatively poor offensive help. Expecting him to light up the opposing defense every week is beyond unrealistic. Frankly, I think he did ok against the Packers at Lambeau given the circumstances. He will get better, there is no doubt about that. From where he was when I saw him in his first college career start until now, he has made tremendous leaps and bounds. Buffalo found its Jim Kelly franchise quarterback replacement. Now it just needs to have patience and build an offense around him to give him the tools to be successful. wow, thank you for that and God bless you for living in an area where " a breeze" could blow over a 53' trailer full of kegs. i'll always remember my treks through wyoming.... Edited October 1, 2018 by billsredneck1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby Hooks Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 41 minutes ago, Wayne Arnold said: There are always receivers open enough to be thrown to in the NFL. Every play. Look at Rosen's pass that I posted in this thread. That receiver wasn't remotely open. Rosen threw him open with a perfect pass. Allen needs to throw those. If that results in more picks because Allen isn't throwing an accurate ball, then we can blame his accuracy instead of his tentativeness. If that results in more picks because his receivers have no ball skills, then we can blame his receivers. And there were passes Allen makes like that laser sharp td pass in preseason that Rosen couldn’t make in 1,900 years on this planet. So what? We can all cherry pick. In fact, how many amazing upsets with two rushing tds and 1 passing against a super bowl contender does Rosen have? Be honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 You really can't get too stressed about a young QB until you've seen them fail to improve or make the same mistakes over and over again, over the course of a season or two. Anything short of that is really a waste of bandwidth. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zevo Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 2 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said: You really can't get too stressed about a young QB until you've seen them fail to improve or make the same mistakes over and over again, over the course of a season or two. Anything short of that is really a waste of bandwidth. Spot on...but i guess the debate is half the fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 9 minutes ago, Bobby Hooks said: And there were passes Allen makes like that laser sharp td pass in preseason that Rosen couldn’t make in 1,900 years on this planet. So what? We can all cherry pick. In fact, how many amazing upsets with two rushing tds and 1 passing against a super bowl contender does Rosen have? Be honest. At the end of the day at this point in their careers Rosen is probably the more accurate QB - He also steps right into hits looks like a twig - He also cannot run out of trouble to save his life - He also has better receivers Josh Allen is not as accurate - But he is bigger, stronger, and made to take NFL big boy punishment - Can also get first downs (and touchdowns apparantly) with his athletic ability I am not even going to bring up the actual arm of each of these guys...which is VERY different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 2 hours ago, K-9 said: I wonder if one of these analytic dweebs who insists on drilling down to the marrow in order to make a point, no matter how vapid, could do an analysis on the worst road performances by nine year veteran QBs. You prolly have to be a bit more polite and courteous than referring to us'ns as "dweebs" and a bit more enticing as to how the work would be received than referencing our points as "vapid". Otherwise the answer to your wonderment is probably gonna be: "nah. roll your own." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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