Watkins, Woods, 6-100, 6-81. Benjamin, Jones, 2-19, 2-63

[Trogdor]

4 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

This brings up an issue I don't think ever gets discussed enough.  When folks talk about "losing" someone in free agency, the assumption that seems to be made is the team could have retained the FA if they had made a bigger offer, earlier offer, etc.  But what that ignores is the human side of the equation.  Football players , while I think driven primarily by financials when in the FA market, also are human.  Thus, there may be circumstances having nothing to do with football that cause them to leave one team for another in FA.  Woods, for example.  It was widely rumored that he wanted to sign with a West coast team to get back closer to home.  If that is the case, wouldn't matter what we offered.  We would have had to offer an insane amount to get him to change his mind if it was the personal matters driving the bus. 

 

I think Gilmore might have been similar.  I recall a discussion saying he wanted to be on a team that got more TV time.  I think Whaley really tried to get him back in the fold, but likely it was non-financial reasons that caused him to go to NE.

 

There are obviously financial reasons for players to move in FA.  Also football ones (might like a coach, a scheme, etc.).  But don't minimize the impact of personal situations and desires when looking at these FA moves.

I wasn't upset about Gilmore in the least bit, but sending Darby away hurt. Gilmore was sold as a press corner during the draft, but all I ever saw was 5yds off and a tackle after a completion. It was almost like the Poz of CBs.

[oldmanfan]

Just now, Trogdor said:

I wasn't upset about Gilmore in the least bit, but sending Darby away hurt. Gilmore was sold as a press corner during the draft, but all I ever saw was 5yds off and a tackle after a completion. It was almost like the Poz of CBs.

I think it would be nice to still have Gaines, as he fit the D better than Darby.  I saw an interesting article I think in si about the Eagles D.  They have three young CBs they like, and the article indicated they like them enough hat they may not even try to sign Darby to a long term deal after his rookie contract is up this year.  So maybe we can get him back if we want.

[Trogdor]

4 minutes ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

 

OK so your take is if the the GM is hired first and he hires a person he's worked which by your definition makes him his friend, that's fine, but if the coach is hired first and then hires his "friend" who he worked with before, that's no good.  So would you have been happier if they hired someone who McD never worked with before and then create the situation like we had with Rex/Marrone and Whaley?

 

Yes I agree in most cases the GM is hired first, then bring in the HC, but it's also not unprecedented to first hire the coach either.  I'm also not so sure the Bills could have put together the front office they had if they hired the GM first as many teams aren't going to let front office types go while preparing for the draft.  I doubt we'd have also got the guy from KC or think there was another from Miami prior to the draft.  Teams have to let assistants interview and take HC jobs, not so sure that's true for front office positions, have seen posts stating yes and no to that and almost certain not true for assistant front office positions.  Then the team could have been in a position of great we got the GM and HC in place, but a very thin front office as can't hire anyone else under contract.  There's a reason GM and front office position contracts typically all expire in May.  Hiring a GM in January likely meant you're limited to people out of work, in other words a past failure from somewhere else.

 

But does it really matter, either way the GM is likely going to hire as a coach someone he worked with prior, i,e, Polien/Levy or the  coach hies someone as the GM he's worked with.  And technically McD didn't hire Beane, Pegula did, but with a huge thumbs up and recommendation from McD.  And I'm sure part of Pegula's thinking was he didn't want to repeat the same mistake of coach and GM not always being on the same page.

I wish they would let their staff make more decisions. Marrone, Rex, and now Beane are all on them. It took them a while to pick someone with an actual background in the NHL, but the damage was done and the rebuild had to restart. 

[RyanC883]

Lets see: 

 

Woods: Goff, a good O-line, a great D that puts the offense back on the field, and a RB named Gurley.   Also has other stud WR's to take attention off of him.  

 

Watkins:  plays in uptempo throwing offense with Andy Reed.  Has arguably the 2nd best TE in football on his team, and another stud WR in T. Hill to take attention off of him.  

 

But rant on about how the Bills "let these guys go."    

 

Woods would have been nice to keep, but too much money for a WR in a rebuilding offense, and he'd be clobbered here with double coverage.  

[Trogdor]

2 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

I think it would be nice to still have Gaines, as he fit the D better than Darby.  I saw an interesting article I think in si about the Eagles D.  They have three young CBs they like, and the article indicated they like them enough hat they may not even try to sign Darby to a long term deal after his rookie contract is up this year.  So maybe we can get him back if we want.

Does he come with Schwartz lol because that would be amazing. 

[oldmanfan]

7 minutes ago, Trogdor said:

I wish they would let their staff make more decisions. Marrone, Rex, and now Beane are all on them. It took them a while to pick someone with an actual background in the NHL, but the damage was done and the rebuild had to restart. 

I don't know who else but the owners would make the final decision on what essentially are the chief executives of the organization.  I would assume (hope?) they were talking to folks in and around the league about McD and Beane.

6 minutes ago, Trogdor said:

Does he come with Schwartz lol because that would be amazing. 

That would be nice!  Regarding that, wonder if McD will call the D plays again this week?  The one thing that has ticked me off this season so far is how completely unprepared they've looked in the first half of games.  I hope McD has them playing aggressively from the get go.

[Jobot]

12 hours ago, Foreigner said:

I know what I saw the past 2 weeks, why don't you tell us what you saw.

 

I see an idiot that thinks a random 2-week span justifies bothering a message board.

[hondo in seattle]

13 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

McDermott’s friend who hired as a puppet GM admitted he never talked to Sammy about his long term plans before they made the trade.

 

but we got some super talented, process guys to replace him!

 

Not only wasn't Sammy particularly productive here but his attitude sucked.  Remember the story of Shady giving him an envelope of 'targets' because Sammy kept clamoring for more targets?  Sammy wasn't respected by his teammates and even Sammy admitted somewhere that he was more interested in his stat line than the final score.  

 

Sammy claims to have grown up since.  But while here he just wasn't the kind of guy you wanted around.   We didn't end the drought last year so much by talent but by effort.  Now Beane is trying to acquire guys who are big on both effort and talent.   Personally, I'm choosing to give Beane some time before judging 'the process.'   

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

1 hour ago, hondo in seattle said:

 

Not only wasn't Sammy particularly productive here but his attitude sucked.  Remember the story of Shady giving him an envelope of 'targets' because Sammy kept clamoring for more targets?  Sammy wasn't respected by his teammates and even Sammy admitted somewhere that he was more interested in his stat line than the final score.  

 

Sammy claims to have grown up since.  But while here he just wasn't the kind of guy you wanted around.   We didn't end the drought last year so much by talent but by effort.  Now Beane is trying to acquire guys who are big on both effort and talent.   Personally, I'm choosing to give Beane some time before judging 'the process.'   

I was a fan of Sammy when he got here because of the big catches he made in  practice and preseason but I hardly ever saw them in a game. 

 

There was this "theory" of s poster named  jm2009's that constantly said  EJ trows his receivers into danger (over the middle) and Sammy got injured because of it.

Then there was the foot injury that needed a second surgery IIRC,   

Then there was Tyrod Taylor who didn't throw a boat load of passes .. 

 

To me those are enough pieces of the puzzle for his exit.   

 

(better scott) I added verbiage for clarity

 

Edited September 20, 2018 by ShadyBillsFan

[Victory Formation]

And when we run Benjamin out of town he'll be a 1,000 yard receiver again!

[PIZ]

13 hours ago, Gugny said:

URGENT URGENT URGENT URGENT ... EMERGENCY ... URGENT URGENT URGENT URGENT ... EMERGENCY!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Don't you mean "Emer emer emer.............."  No, you're right, it's "urgent".

[Luka]

But we got rid of those guys because they were holding back the most elite QB in the league, Tyrod Taylor.

[buffalostu2]

13 hours ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

 

Show me some evidence that they were friends, can you post some pictures of their families going on vacation together, then I'll agree they are friends.  Though even then many times staff members do socialize together.   They both worked together for the same team for a few seasons, that hardly makes them friends.  They didn't go to college together or follow eachother from team to team.  How many times do you hear a team hires a new HC and right away he brings some of his old staff with him.  Rex brought half his Jets staff here.  Marrone brought Hackett and then brought him to Jax too.  Based on your definition, that must make them all friends too.  Well if so, then yes all the teams are doing it.

 

Bill Pollian had worked with Marv Levy in the CFL guess he hired his friend too.

 

I do agree that TP forced two coaches on Whaley, if he was allowed to pick his own guy who would he likely have chosen, probably someone he had some type of prior relationship with previously.

See what church they go to.  That will tell you how close our faith based process oriented Coach and GM are.

[Tcali]

14 hours ago, Foreigner said:

The last 2 weeks are what happens when you quit on talent as the above statistics from Sunday shows.

 

Like I wrote last year, Beane and McDermott got duped by Carolina on Benjamin. He is even on the injury report

again this week. Jones made 1 long catch after he bobbled the ball. I guess running around naked with blood

on his body didn't make him a better WR. 

 

Thanks for the discipline Sean and Beane.

in all fairness woods and Watkins have someone to get them the ball

[SoTier]

4 hours ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

What did Sammy do last season in LA?    

 

39 of 70 in 15 games   5 targets per game and only  2.6 catches per game!

 

and he was released let go and they kept Robert Woods. 

I read that, but then when you go into the meat of the article he really didn't break a record.

 

Breaking the record would have been surpassing Kelly. 

 

I see now they updated the graphic

 

 

https://www.buffalobills.com/news/bills-today-bills-young-leaders-working-on-discipline-comfort

 

 

Watkins' rookie contract was up.  LA tried to re-sign him but they couldn't agree to a deal, so he walked.   The difference between the Rams last season and KC this season versus the Bills is that those teams have lots of other targets for Goff and Mahomes.  Watkins was and is one of several fast, sure-handed WRs the Rams and the Chiefs have provided to help their young QBs shine.  Who the hell have the Bills given Allen? Maybe I should also ask 'what the hell have the Bills provided to help their young QB?' because they haven't given him any sort of protection in the form of a competent OL, a decent running game so he doesn't have to throw 30 plus times a game or even a respectable defense, either.  

 

That's what angers me most: that the Bills are setting up Allen to fail because NO QB -- not Rodgers or Brady or P Manning -- could be successful on this team because its talent level is on a par with an expansion team's.   I didn't like the Allen pick at all, but now that he's a Bill, I sure don't want him to fail.  It's hard enough for any QB to succeed in the NFL without being sabotaged by an organization that demonstrates weekly it's still as disinterested in winning football games as it ever has been.

[Real McClappy]

4 hours ago, Trogdor said:

This is why the Bills are terrible. We didn't let our GM hire any coaches, but a rookie HC gets to hire a GM? It makes no sense. 

Not here to bash any decisions made thus far as I'm trying to reserve everything until after next FA and draft like I think most should here.

 

I have never thought about what you said and it's really pretty interesting seeing it this way. 

[John from Riverside]

14 hours ago, Jay_Fixit said:

Could this be the worst thread of the month?

 

Let’s wait and find out.

Only if it surpasses the ops last god awful post

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

6 hours ago, formerlyofCtown said:

Duh.

Watkins is a top 5 to 10 WR when healthy and Woods is very under rated.  Are we supposed to be surprised

 

Was wondering when elite top 5 myth would resurface.

 

The legendary Sammy Watkins racked up his 12th hundred yard game in 5 years....

 

Which takes the actual elite guys like a season and a half...

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

28 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

Watkins' rookie contract was up.  LA tried to re-sign him but they couldn't agree to a deal, so he walked.   The difference between the Rams last season and KC this season versus the Bills is that those teams have lots of other targets for Goff and Mahomes.  Watkins was and is one of several fast, sure-handed WRs the Rams and the Chiefs have provided to help their young QBs shine.  Who the hell have the Bills given Allen? Maybe I should also ask 'what the hell have the Bills provided to help their young QB?' because they haven't given him any sort of protection in the form of a competent OL, a decent running game so he doesn't have to throw 30 plus times a game or even a respectable defense, either.  

 

That's what angers me most: that the Bills are setting up Allen to fail because NO QB -- not Rodgers or Brady or P Manning -- could be successful on this team because its talent level is on a par with an expansion team's.   I didn't like the Allen pick at all, but now that he's a Bill, I sure don't want him to fail.  It's hard enough for any QB to succeed in the NFL without being sabotaged by an organization that demonstrates weekly it's still as disinterested in winning football games as it ever has been.

Link?    Was that contract for sub par WR $? 

 

[teef]

1 minute ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

Link?    Was that contract for sub par WR $? 

 

i don't recall it happening like that either, (but i could be mistaken).  didn't they let sammy walk just to sign another wr to a similar deal that sammy got anyway?    they essentially just rented him for a year for a second round pick.