Over 29 years of fanhood Posted September 19, 2018 Share Posted September 19, 2018 3 hours ago, matter2003 said: It's irrelevant. People who succeed will do it regardless of the circumstances they are given. If they have the talent, it won't matter. People who say this type of stuff are much more like Vontae Davis than Kyle Williams. When the going gets tough they just cry and whine and pack up their things and go home. PRetty sure Mark Sheppard is not very successful, people who are don't think like that. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ This- success is earned not given. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaw66 Posted September 19, 2018 Share Posted September 19, 2018 3 hours ago, 416BillsFan said: Thanks OP, good article. The story was pretty balanced, giving both sides the sitting/starting argument a fair shake. I don't think it was balanced at all. I think the story was written based on stats and conventional wisdom. That is, it started for the assumption the Bills are train wreck and went on from there. It recites all the things the Bills have done wrong in handling their QB situation, things that weren't even wrong. Getting rid of Taylor wasn't surprising - getting a decent pick for him was surprising. What it ignores, completely, is how Allen is playing. Who cares if they unloaded McCarron? Who cares if there's a vet in the QB room to mentor him? Who cares if coming out of college the "experts" said he was raw and needed work? How about just watching what he does on the field and making a judgment about whether the guy looks like an NFL QB? The fact is he DOES look like an NFL QB. When the Bills start winning, the writers are going to say that Allen took his lumps and grew up and blah, blah, blah. In fact, he's playing as better than Taylor and Trubisky. He looks as good as Darnold but doesn't have his stats. The press just doesn't want to tell that story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaw66 Posted September 19, 2018 Share Posted September 19, 2018 1 hour ago, Nihilarian said: Well said and so true. And hopefully he survives that long... It really is a sad state that Allen is currently in as I can't think of another NFL QB becoming successful after starting for such a bad team. The only bright spot on offense this year is McCoy and the team can't seem to get the run game working. If Allen fails at the end of the season most Bills fans will probably say he was never good to begin with... Troy Aikman and Peyton Manning and Steve Young had okay careers starting with bad teams. Allen's getting a great education playing now. He's already showing he can handle the mental and physical pressure. I'm confident his sacks per game will go down as the season progresses. He'll read the defenses better, and he'll know his receivers better. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheElectricCompany Posted September 19, 2018 Author Share Posted September 19, 2018 8 minutes ago, Shaw66 said: Troy Aikman and Peyton Manning and Steve Young had okay careers starting with bad teams. Allen's getting a great education playing now. He's already showing he can handle the mental and physical pressure. I'm confident his sacks per game will go down as the season progresses. He'll read the defenses better, and he'll know his receivers better. It has been 1.5 games. I don't think he has really showed anything concrete. Going against the Minnesota defensive buzzsaw, I'm expecting it to get ugly, but stranger things have happened. Is he both physically and mentally tough? Sure, but as I said before, he's a top 10 pick, it comes with the territory. If he was sulking on the sideline, it would be a huge red flag. As the season progresses, it's doubtful there will be a significant uptick in support along the OL, or with his playmakers. The roster is what it is and I expect McD and Beane to roll with what we have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metzelaars_lives Posted September 19, 2018 Share Posted September 19, 2018 41 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said: Hes a f****** liar lmao he said he stared the table smashing tradition in in 2015 But it’s be been going on wayyyy longer than that Hes a f****** liar lmao he said he stared the table smashing tradition in in 2015 But it’s be been going on wayyyy longer than that Hes a f****** liar lmao he said he stared the table smashing tradition in in 2015 But it’s be been going on wayyyy longer than that Link? 1 hour ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said: ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ This- success is earned not given. So who has had a more ideal situation to walk into to start their NFL career- Patrick Mahomes or Josh Allen? If you answer Mahomes, you are necessarily not a successful person? OK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo716 Posted September 19, 2018 Share Posted September 19, 2018 1 minute ago, metzelaars_lives said: Link? Link to what? That he said he started the table smashing in 2015? It’s in the article or that it’s been going on longer? I can assure you there has been table smashing at tailgates for a lot longer than 3 years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaw66 Posted September 19, 2018 Share Posted September 19, 2018 11 minutes ago, TheElectricCompany said: It has been 1.5 games. I don't think he has really showed anything concrete. Going against the Minnesota defensive buzzsaw, I'm expecting it to get ugly, but stranger things have happened. Is he both physically and mentally tough? Sure, but as I said before, he's a top 10 pick, it comes with the territory. If he was sulking on the sideline, it would be a huge red flag. As the season progresses, it's doubtful there will be a significant uptick in support along the OL, or with his playmakers. The roster is what it is and I expect McD and Beane to roll with what we have. I think he's shown a lot. First, he isn't showing many rookie negatives. No sulking, no confusion calling plays, no intimidation from a game that's too big or too fast for him. We're not seeing any of the rookie ugliness we got from EJ or JP. Second, he's shown good command of the huddle and respect from his veteran teammates. Third, he's shown none of the wild inaccuracy people seemed to think he had, and none of the overambitious gunslinger mentality he was accused of. Fourth, he's shown great presence in the pocket. Fifth, he's shown an ability to look off defenders and to find and hit receivers downfield, something Taylor struggled with. He has plenty of positives and, to date, few negatives. Yes, the roster is what it is, but I don't think it's as bad as people think. For example, look at sacks through two games. Now, the Bills started two totally inexperienced QBs, and inexperienced QBs always take more sacks. So you'd expect the numbers to be bad because of that. The Bills have taken 11 sacks, one less than Seattle, one more than Cleveland (Wilson and Taylor are perennial sack leaders). There are plenty of teams with 6 sacks or more, and watching the games I'm amazed how MOST teams have trouble protecting the QB. The Bills aren't a terrible outlier, and as Allen learns more, he'll take fewer sacks. Plus, it's a new offense for everyone, and Allen didn't get a lot of first team reps all summer long. He and the receivers will develop some rapport that they don't have yet. For example, he and Benjamin miscommunicated on the back-shoulder incompletion early in the game Sunday. That rarely happens once two guys know each other. Once they know each other it's also easier for the QB to avoid sacks, because he knows where to find his outlet guys. So I fully expect that the offense will improve from week to week. I think Daboll was reluctant to throw the ball a lot on Sunday, and I think that will change, too. As Allen learns more and gets better with his receivers, they'll let him throw it. You can be sure the whole league already knows that you can't sit on the short routes against Allen. He keeps hitting guys over the middle 15-20 yards downfield, and that's going to continue. Once that happens, Daboll will start popping receivers open on shorter routes. Allen will move the sticks better then, his completion percentage will go up, and the running backs, whoever they are, won't have to worry so much about the safeties in the box. I really expect that by midseason the media will be singing a different tune about Allen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiskibreth Posted September 19, 2018 Share Posted September 19, 2018 If given a choice, do you think Allen would rather be starting, or waiting? I'm thinking he'd rather be "thrown to the wolves" than riding the pine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metzelaars_lives Posted September 19, 2018 Share Posted September 19, 2018 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said: Link to what? That he said he started the table smashing in 2015? It’s in the article or that it’s been going on longer? I can assure you there has been table smashing at tailgates for a lot longer than 3 years I know it's in the article. Again, he is my brother. And yes, I can provide a link to a deadspin article from 10/5/2015 that clearly shows my brothers and their tailgating crew in the video. In the article, it certainly sounds as if the writer hadn't seen anything like it before. I am a pretty avid Bills fan and I can tell you that that video went viral and at the time, I hadn't seen it before. So yes, please provide a link for evidence of table smashing prior to 10/5/2015 and you win. 1 minute ago, wiskibreth said: If given a choice, do you think Allen would rather be starting, or waiting? I'm thinking he'd rather be "thrown to the wolves" than riding the pine. Who said he wouldn't? Edited September 19, 2018 by metzelaars_lives Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo716 Posted September 19, 2018 Share Posted September 19, 2018 (edited) 11 minutes ago, metzelaars_lives said: I know it's in the article. Again, he is my brother. And yes, I can provide a link to a deadspin article from 10/5/2015 that clearly shows my brothers and their tailgating crew in the video. In the article, it certainly sounds as if the writer hadn't seen anything like it before. I am a pretty avid Bills fan and I can tell you that that video went viral and at the time, I hadn't seen it before. So yes, please provide a link for evidence of table smashing prior to 10/5/2015 and you win. Congrats for you. And yes idc if a deadspin writer Had never seen it before.. I’ve been tailgating my whole life and I had definitely seen it before 2015 If your brother takes credit for it, congrats to him https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/bills-mafia?full=1 this article says wrestling moves started being performed in 2012 .. mentions stunners then says table slamming started gaining attention in 2015... says deadspin gained attention.. meaning it at least started Before. They just became aware of it It hasn’t been 20 years but I definitely saw it once around 2012. I saw it every Sunday 2015 your brother knows how to party Edited September 19, 2018 by Buffalo716 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nedboy7 Posted September 19, 2018 Share Posted September 19, 2018 4 hours ago, Jay_Fixit said: Yet another moron saying Tyrod “lead the Bills to the playoffs.” Was he not the QB? Yeah what a moron. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihilarian Posted September 19, 2018 Share Posted September 19, 2018 26 minutes ago, Shaw66 said: Troy Aikman and Peyton Manning and Steve Young had okay careers starting with bad teams. Allen's getting a great education playing now. He's already showing he can handle the mental and physical pressure. I'm confident his sacks per game will go down as the season progresses. He'll read the defenses better, and he'll know his receivers better. I've already made the case that both Aikman and Manning were on teams with far better than average offensive lines as each were only sacked 19 times, 22 times in their rookie seasons. Steve Young was sacked 22 in four games in 85 and was battered around with 47 sacks in 14 games in 86. Young never did play a full season for Tampa Bay and had veteran QB Steve DeBerg to lean on for those back to back 2-14 seasons. Young then went to SF where he was coached by arguably the brightest offensive mind the league has ever known in Bill Walsh. Plus, like with Aaron Rodgers sitting behind Brett Favre for years while learning. Young sat behind Joe Montana for 5 seasons before starting in SF. While I agree that the best thing that can happen for a rookie QB to properly develop is to go out and actually play. However like others have outlined this particular situation for Josh Allen is he is in probably the most difficult, untenable state of affairs for a rookie QB to properly develop. 2 hours ago, Nihilarian said: 4 hours ago, No Place To Hyde said: Well, if you draw up a situation for ANY rookie QB to come into this is not a place that screams "mold a young QB" -No vet QB on roster to help in film room -Culley the QB coach that specializes in WRs -Daboll no track record of developing a QB -Horrible oline in front of him -Not good weapons around him -Defense minded Head Coach -no run game so far* If you look at how Joe Flacco developed you would see that he went to a solid playoff type team that went 11-5 and made the playoffs his rookie season. They ran the ball to help that rookie QB develop!!! Flacco had 433 passing attempts while the Ravens had 592 attempts rushing. In Flacco's second season the Ravens beat the New England Patriots IN New England by pounding the rock 52 times for 234 yards, 4 TDs. Meanwhile Flacco threw 4 of 10 for 34 yards, 1 INT. To win that playoff game against NE 33-14. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan1959 Posted September 19, 2018 Share Posted September 19, 2018 2 hours ago, starrymessenger said: Can you think of a rookie QB with as many issues and as long a list of things to work on as Josh who started for a terrible team and succeeded. He's in a very tough spot IMO. There is a very wide range of opinions about how extensive these issues are. Regardless, whatever happened to any other QB in history is irrelevant. Each athlete is unique, as is each situation that athlete is in at any given moment. IMHO, if he has the qualities (physical and mental) necessary to succeed in the NFL, then he will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metzelaars_lives Posted September 19, 2018 Share Posted September 19, 2018 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said: Congrats for you. And yes idc if a deadspin writer Had never seen it before.. I’ve been tailgating my whole life and I had definitely seen it before 2015 If your brother takes credit for it, congrats to him Dude a) then provide a link. Your response sounds very much like a concession. A video on twitter, facebook, instagram- anything that shows one person going through a table at a Bills tailgate prior to 10/5/15. And it's too late for you to go "well who cares anyway"- you're the one who brought it up, made it into an issue and then made it contentious by calling my brother a "f****** liar." And more importantly, b) what is wrong with you? Edited September 19, 2018 by metzelaars_lives 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nedboy7 Posted September 19, 2018 Share Posted September 19, 2018 (edited) Sounds like even I could develop Allen. Where do I sign? Edited September 19, 2018 by nedboy7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metzelaars_lives Posted September 19, 2018 Share Posted September 19, 2018 1 minute ago, nedboy7 said: Sounds like even I could develop Allen. Where do I sign? Yeah it's super easy. You don't need coaching, an offensive line, a defense, weapons to create separation- all you need is that "can do" attitude and you'll be successful. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo716 Posted September 19, 2018 Share Posted September 19, 2018 (edited) 5 minutes ago, metzelaars_lives said: Dude a) then provide a link. Your response sounds very much like a concession. A video on twitter, facebook, instagram- anything that shows one person going through a table at a Bills tailgate prior to 10/5/15. And it's too late for you to go "well who cares anyway"- you're the one who brought it up, made it into an issue and then made it contentious by calling my brother a "f****** liar." And more importantly, b) what is wrong with you? Dude it’s a message board, don’t take it personal against your brother i said I saw it Before 2015. I’m sorry I said ****** liar. And I don’t have time to search through 6 years of videos. I googled it quick and there are articles of wrestling antics going back years around 2012 Edited September 19, 2018 by Buffalo716 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted September 19, 2018 Share Posted September 19, 2018 1 hour ago, iinii said: Kelly also played at Miami and had a couple of years with professional talent and schemes surrounding him. Yeah, I know. I said that above in a prior post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metzelaars_lives Posted September 19, 2018 Share Posted September 19, 2018 2 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said: Dude it’s a message board, don’t take it personal against your brother i said I saw it Before 2015. I’m sorry I said ****** liar. You said WAAAY before. You didn't. You just had never stopped to think about when it started. It started in 2015 and then really took off in 2016. I think we can both agree that it doesn't really matter. Apology accepted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo716 Posted September 19, 2018 Share Posted September 19, 2018 Just now, metzelaars_lives said: You said WAAAY before. You didn't. You just had never stopped to think about when it started. It started in 2015 and then really took off in 2016. I think we can both agree that it doesn't really matter. Apology accepted. I wouldn’t have slandered your brother if I knew it was your brother im not a jerk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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