Hapless Bills Fan Posted September 21, 2018 Share Posted September 21, 2018 38 minutes ago, DCOrange said: https://thedraftnetwork.com/2018/04/20/ledyards-final-2018-nfl-draft-positional-rankings-quarterbacks/ He has Allen ranked as the 5th QB prospect in the link below He has him rated as a late-day 2 pick and says " that is still considerably higher than a logical analysis of him as a player would peg him" and acknowledges his " consistent pointed criticism toward Allen" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted September 21, 2018 Share Posted September 21, 2018 1 hour ago, stony said: Allen's going to be a tough grade all season. For instance, his two longest plays were a missed read where he eventually goes back to Jones, and his inaccurate throw that made Dimarco fall down. Stat line says 2/2 ~85yds. A bit misleading, as one might have went for a TD and the other probably has 10-15yds of RAC. Either way, and as you point out, don't get too bent out of shape over the endless micro-analysis of his play. RE: the throw to Dimarco- I remember a ton of people last year swearing up and down that, in a very similar situation, Jones was to blame for running a bad route in the last few seconds of the Panthers game. The two plays aren't identical obviously (main difference is Allen-->Dimarco was a completion and Taylor-->Jones an incompletion), but does Allen get extended the same consideration that was afforded to Taylor? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fadingpain Posted September 21, 2018 Share Posted September 21, 2018 3 hours ago, Bangarang said: It doesn’t take a former player or coach to study football concepts and use that knowledge to break down All-22. Would people be this quick to discredit him if he praised Allen’s performance? Why are people so quick to attack the person rather than his opinion and logic? Are his opinions reasonable? Does he back them up logically? Yes, of course they are and yes he does. He was on with Schopp and Bulldog explaining his take on Allen quite well a couple of days ago. Ad hominem attacks like we are seeing in this thread are a common logical fallacy widely practiced by your average Bills fan. Ultimately, the source of the contempt for Ledyard is the poster's own fear that Allen isn't going to pan out. He was considered a high risk project player by almost everyone, most had him as a 3rd round type gamble. He is still exhibiting the same sorts of issues he has always exhibited, and his accuracy is all over the map. It's just basic psychology. Rather than address these things head on, the typical fan attacks the source of the criticism. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted September 21, 2018 Share Posted September 21, 2018 What did Ledyard think of Darnold pre-draft and what does he think about his performances the past 2 weeks? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GimmeSomeProcess Posted September 21, 2018 Share Posted September 21, 2018 1 hour ago, GoBills808 said: Yup. Totally fair. But equally fair IMO to point out other QBs, Mayfield included (included, in this instance, because he's the en vogue comparison), can throw inaccurately and get help from receivers. Allen's deep throw to Jones...he missed the timing for sure. But I can't get on him because he eventually recognized the coverage and made the right decision. Was it underthrown, sure. Was it deliberately underthrown? Don't know, and I'm pretty sure neither does this guy. What I do know is that it takes a certain perspective to label a 60 yard completion a 'mess', and I wonder if it had been another QB/WR combo making that play if he'd have described it similarly. Exactly to bang on a 60 yard pass play and say it was a negative throw is utterly stupid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stony Posted September 21, 2018 Share Posted September 21, 2018 28 minutes ago, GoBills808 said: RE: the throw to Dimarco- I remember a ton of people last year swearing up and down that, in a very similar situation, Jones was to blame for running a bad route in the last few seconds of the Panthers game. The two plays aren't identical obviously (main difference is Allen-->Dimarco was a completion and Taylor-->Jones an incompletion), but does Allen get extended the same consideration that was afforded to Taylor? I don't have the desire to scan through every pass/read/decision he makes. RE: Tyrod throw v JA throw...I thought Zay should've caught the ball just like I think Allen's pass to Dimarco should've been caught. Like I said before, the over-analysis of Allen will make you go crazy. Side's have been drawn. I'm Switzerland on this. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuckyBoys Posted September 21, 2018 Share Posted September 21, 2018 40 minutes ago, Fadingpain said: Yes, of course they are and yes he does. He was on with Schopp and Bulldog explaining his take on Allen quite well a couple of days ago. Ad hominem attacks like we are seeing in this thread are a common logical fallacy widely practiced by your average Bills fan. Ultimately, the source of the contempt for Ledyard is the poster's own fear that Allen isn't going to pan out. He was considered a high risk project player by almost everyone, most had him as a 3rd round type gamble. He is still exhibiting the same sorts of issues he has always exhibited, and his accuracy is all over the map. It's just basic psychology. Rather than address these things head on, the typical fan attacks the source of the criticism. He was a top 5 pick in almost every major draft board so I guess this guy is smarter than everyone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted September 22, 2018 Share Posted September 22, 2018 3 hours ago, GoBills808 said: RE: the throw to Dimarco- I remember a ton of people last year swearing up and down that, in a very similar situation, Jones was to blame for running a bad route in the last few seconds of the Panthers game. The two plays aren't identical obviously (main difference is Allen-->Dimarco was a completion and Taylor-->Jones an incompletion), but does Allen get extended the same consideration that was afforded to Taylor? TBH, I'm never 100% sure what the route and its options are supposed to be. The only reason I think DiMarco ran a poor route there is because 1) our head coach publicly identified the route he was running as a "wheel concept" and 2) also identified a route run by a WR on the other side of the field as the same route. I compared them both to route charts and observed the latter looked like it's charted to look, and the former cut the corner and looked back too soon. I don't remember what route Jones ran in the last seconds of the Panther game, but if it was the last seconds wouldn't it have been Peterman? And sure, if the coach IDs the route it's supposed to be and you have some means to compare how other WR are being coached to run that route..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted September 22, 2018 Share Posted September 22, 2018 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: TBH, I'm never 100% sure what the route and its options are supposed to be. The only reason I think DiMarco ran a poor route there is because 1) our head coach publicly identified the route he was running as a "wheel concept" and 2) also identified a route run by a WR on the other side of the field as the same route. I compared them both to route charts and observed the latter looked like it's charted to look, and the former cut the corner and looked back too soon. I don't remember what route Jones ran in the last seconds of the Panther game, but if it was the last seconds wouldn't it have been Peterman? And sure, if the coach IDs the route it's supposed to be and you have some means to compare how other WR are being coached to run that route..... Well if it was supposed to be a wheel route then he should have bent his run more toward the sideline and curved upfield instead of just straight lining it toward the corner. So maybe the ball was where it was supposed to be. Who knows. Edited September 22, 2018 by GoBills808 corner not post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Protocal69 Posted September 22, 2018 Share Posted September 22, 2018 It's funny because arm chair quarterbacks claim how bad Allen is but his competitors say how special he is and that sky the limit for the kid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyC81 Posted September 22, 2018 Share Posted September 22, 2018 On September 19, 2018 at 9:01 AM, Utah John said: It's no surprise Allen is at the point he's at. This is what most people expected, a raw rookie, and he's doing relatively OK. Obviously he needs better O line and WR help. It's the other first rounder, Tremaine Edmunds, who has me a little concerned. Great natural talent but not really catching on. The Bills gave up a lot to move up to draft him, and so far it's not looking so good. It's only been 2 regular season games! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman1876 Posted September 22, 2018 Share Posted September 22, 2018 (edited) I think Ledyard makes good points. Allen looked how we expected him to, with all the issues we knew he had. Ledyard simply makes his bones using critical language to express the same point. He he does a mailbag column and was asked who has been disappointing to you so far. In other words who hasn’t played as well as you thought they would so far. He includes aallen with the note that Allen is playing exactly how he thought he would. In other words he wanted to write a dig at Allen and ignored the question to do so. Edited September 22, 2018 by Batman1876 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyC81 Posted September 22, 2018 Share Posted September 22, 2018 On September 20, 2018 at 8:57 AM, CLTbills said: Who the hell is Jon Ledyard? Wasn't he a defenseman for the Sabres? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Clause Posted September 22, 2018 Share Posted September 22, 2018 6 hours ago, Bangarang said: Do you have a link? I’m curious to see what he thought about Allen pre-draft. Obviously if Allen sucks then that will make him right. Saying Allen will suck wasn’t some outlandish prediction though. There were even a lot of people here who hated him as a prospect and didn’t want him. Are you just assuming he’s rooting against Allen simply because he didn’t think he will be good? Most of the stuff I found was audio interview, but here is a quote from him: “Allen also needs massive development and time to sit and learn in the NFL. But A.J. McCarron and Nate Peterman are the only other quarterbacks on the Bills roster, and they aren’t exactly experienced veterans at the position. It’s arguably the worst situation in the NFL for Allen, and the Bills traded up to acquire him with Josh Rosen on the board. Franchise-altering mistake in my opinion. We’ll see if I’m right.” He is invested in Allen failing.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted September 22, 2018 Share Posted September 22, 2018 57 minutes ago, GoBills808 said: Well if it was supposed to be a wheel route then he should have bent his run more toward the sideline and curved upfield instead of just straight lining it toward the corner. So maybe the ball was where it was supposed to be. Who knows. On the Film thing with Tasker and McDermott, McDermott said it was a "wheel concept". McD used the same term to describe Zay Jones catch, which was clearly run like a wheel route - but where Allen's throw was clearly inaccurate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrober38 Posted September 22, 2018 Share Posted September 22, 2018 (edited) 4 hours ago, DuckyBoys said: He was a top 5 pick in almost every major draft board so I guess this guy is smarter than everyone else. He was a top 5 pick on some draft board, but a 10 player on hardly any big boards. A lot of sites didn't have him as one of the top 32 players. Allen is a boom or bust prospect who history shows probably won't work out. I don't know why people get so upset when people are critical of him. Edited September 22, 2018 by jrober38 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted September 22, 2018 Share Posted September 22, 2018 30 minutes ago, LittleJoeCartwright said: Wasn't he a defenseman for the Sabres? Grant was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted September 22, 2018 Share Posted September 22, 2018 3 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: On the Film thing with Tasker and McDermott, McDermott said it was a "wheel concept". McD used the same term to describe Zay Jones catch, which was clearly run like a wheel route - but where Allen's throw was clearly inaccurate. Nice. Allen was way late on the Jones throw for sure. Bit lucky to have worked out, but work out it did. The Dimarco thing...ehh. I'll take a completion anyday, going forward I'm confident that throw will be on the money for some yac as he gets more comfortable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuckyBoys Posted September 22, 2018 Share Posted September 22, 2018 1 minute ago, jrober38 said: He was a top 5 pick on some draft board, but a 10 player on hardly any big boards. Allen is a boom or bust prospect who history shows probably won't work out. I don't know why people get so upset when people are critical of him. Maybe on ledyards board but then again he had paxton lunch and cardale jones ahead of Carson wentz. Mayock, Mcshay, walter football, kiper, pete prisco all had allen as a top 10 pick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrober38 Posted September 22, 2018 Share Posted September 22, 2018 Just now, DuckyBoys said: Maybe on ledyards board but then again he had paxton lunch and cardale jones ahead of Carson wentz. Mayock, Mcshay, walter football, kiper, pete prisco all had allen as a top 10 pick So what? A lot of other guys had him as a 3rd or 4th rounder. All of the guys you mentioned have had plenty of huge misses when evaluating QBs. We'll see in 2-3 years if Allen works out, but people need to get used to the media being extremely critical of his play because it'll likely take a while for the light to go on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts