Midwest1981 Posted September 19, 2018 Share Posted September 19, 2018 (edited) "Utterly dreadful" and "brutally bad in a myriad of ways" isn't quite how I'd characterize it. But I have to admit- I was more discouraged than encouraged. "It's his first start," "he had a few good plays," etc. I know those things- IMO it was still discouraging to see him miss on some blatantly open throws (Murphy & DiMarco, famoulsy) and to force those picks in the second-half (especially the first one- I was imploring him to throw it away as he released it)... Ledyard correctly mentions "there's a long way to go"- and I still think Allen's relentlessly competitive nature gives him a chance, even with his pre-draft concerns rearing their ugly head again in start #1 (mechanical unsoundness, inconsistent accuracy, decision-making, etc.). Still, I was hoping week #1 offered a few more positives (there WERE some), even considering all factors like the Bills' under-talented roster, the opponent, his first NFL start, etc. https://twitter.com/LedyardNFLDraft/status/1041772507903262720 Edited September 19, 2018 by Midwest1981 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heavy Kevi Posted September 19, 2018 Share Posted September 19, 2018 When I talk about Josh looking good last weekend, it comes with an implied 'except the fact he's a rookie and made some terrible plays'. I feel like that is implied because it's so obvious, and because it was telegraphed. Everyone knew he would be raw, so saying he did good is not saying he looked like a competent QB, but to say "hey look, he's progressing". Anyhow, that's how I see. Obviously there were bad plays I don't think anyone has refuted that. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan4 Posted September 19, 2018 Share Posted September 19, 2018 I am not saying he is wrong. Josh struggled mightily. But, reading through that twitter timeline, this tweet stuck out to me - Does it almost seems like he is excited that Josh Allen struggled and he gets to point it out, or is it just me? He was a very strong critic of Allen before the draft iirc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanC883 Posted September 19, 2018 Share Posted September 19, 2018 My 2 cents. I did not want to draft Allen due to accuracy issues. But he has been better than I thought. He is mentally strong, and can move in the pocket. He also has ZERO help at the WR and OL positions, 2 areas where rookie QB's need help. If he doesn't improve, I can see us taking another QB in the 1st round next year, or early 2nd depending. Nothing to be lost by putting him out there now. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJS Posted September 19, 2018 Share Posted September 19, 2018 (edited) What were all the experts saying about Goff in year 1? How about RGIII? They're wrong just as often as they are right. Edited September 21, 2018 by MJS 12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midwest1981 Posted September 19, 2018 Author Share Posted September 19, 2018 I am not completely down on Allen, like I wrote. And in most respects it's largely the Bills' fault for the rawest rookie outside of Lamar Jackson to have to be thrust into action before he's quite ready, which has caused a mechanical regression, things he's worked so hard to improve. Buffalo thought they could wait a year and then surround Allen with the requisite surrounding talent. Buffalo thought that Peterman's preseason wouldn't portend a second NFL start arguably worst than the first. The Bills should certainly have put more of a priority on mentorship for Allen. Allen can salvage and vindicate them, just because of the importance of the position and player. But this past offseason was a borderline unmitigated disaster. Like I wrote, they thought Allen would be afforded the time. So it didn't matter if he wasn't ready quite yet and it didn't matter if they gave him any talent. What a gross miscalculation, especially given what we saw from Peterman's first (and only) other NFL start. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnnycage46 Posted September 19, 2018 Share Posted September 19, 2018 10 minutes ago, BillsFan4 said: I am not saying he is wrong. Josh struggled mightily. But, reading through that twitter timeline, this tweet stuck out to me - Does it almost seems like he is excited that Josh Allen struggled and he gets to point it out, or is it just me? He was a very strong critic of Allen before the draft iirc. It does seem that way to me as well. I assume most people are happy when they get to be "right" about something they have been harping on. I'm not aware of this guy but if he was down on Allen before the draft, it's not surprising that he is excited to be "right" about Allen struggling. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GimmeSomeProcess Posted September 19, 2018 Share Posted September 19, 2018 11 minutes ago, BillsFan4 said: I am not saying he is wrong. Josh struggled mightily. But, reading through that twitter timeline, this tweet stuck out to me - Does it almost seems like he is excited that Josh Allen struggled and he gets to point it out, or is it just me? He was a very strong critic of Allen before the draft iirc. Totally agree with this statement. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJS Posted September 19, 2018 Share Posted September 19, 2018 PFF disagrees with him. Allen was our highest rated player according to them. So who knows who is right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midwest1981 Posted September 19, 2018 Author Share Posted September 19, 2018 1 minute ago, MJS said: PFF disagrees with him. Allen was our highest rated player according to them. So who knows who is right? According to PFF, Allen graded out at 73.7 for his performance against Baltimore, which I thought was pretty encouraging, even mostly against second-stringers. But his overall grade dropped to just above 50 factoring in his Chargers' start, which did not grade out well. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plenzmd1 Posted September 19, 2018 Share Posted September 19, 2018 11 minutes ago, RyanC883 said: My 2 cents. I did not want to draft Allen due to accuracy issues. But he has been better than I thought. He is mentally strong, and can move in the pocket. He also has ZERO help at the WR and OL positions, 2 areas where rookie QB's need help. If he doesn't improve, I can see us taking another QB in the 1st round next year, or early 2nd depending. Nothing to be lost by putting him out there now. Man, i was killing him on completed passes..just like I used to do with Tyrod. The completions to Clay and Demarco were both awful, yet completed, passes. Accuracy to me is way more about ball placement than it is completion percentage..and Allen is hurting in that area now. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted September 19, 2018 Share Posted September 19, 2018 17 minutes ago, BillsFan4 said: I am not saying he is wrong. Josh struggled mightily. But, reading through that twitter timeline, this tweet stuck out to me - Does it almost seems like he is excited that Josh Allen struggled and he gets to point it out, or is it just me? He was a very strong critic of Allen before the draft iirc. It's just like here on this site. Once someone "declares" that a draft pick will either suck or be awesome, they do everything they can to make sure they're "right." Yawn. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blokestradamus Posted September 19, 2018 Share Posted September 19, 2018 26 minutes ago, BillsFan4 said: I am not saying he is wrong. Josh struggled mightily. But, reading through that twitter timeline, this tweet stuck out to me - Does it almost seems like he is excited that Josh Allen struggled and he gets to point it out, or is it just me? He was a very strong critic of Allen before the draft iirc. 3 As a 'film nerd' type myself, I don't think it inherently means what you think it does. I've seen things live that I've been really interested in digging into in depth, both good and bad. If you're that way inclined, you love having coaches film to dig into route combinations, coverages, progressions etc. that you can't see from the broadcast angles. Wouldn't shock me if Jon is suffering confirmation bias (I find him sanctimonious at the best of times) but it might not be. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TC in St. Louis Posted September 19, 2018 Share Posted September 19, 2018 He racked up 20 on San Diego. This without a running game, an offensive line, and crappy receivers. He's got a long way to go. He knows it, too. He doesn't need to read stuff like this about how lousy he is. He'll come around. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drunken Pygmy Goat Posted September 19, 2018 Share Posted September 19, 2018 Part of me feels like its foolosh to make hard judgements after one game, but the issues shown by Allen on Sunday are certainly worrisome (but not necessarily unexpected though). Not thinking too much into them now, but I will be looking for progress in those areas later in the year. As a prospect, Allen was and still is well behind the curve. The talent is there, but as far as playing the position at a consistently high level, he has a lot of work to do. The game needs to slow down, he needs to not hesitate on quick passes, diagnose better pre-snap, and learn to make the veteran plays like when to throw it away and to slide. Those are all issues that come with time and experience. Seeing them now is one thing. Seeing them after 20+ games is another. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midwest1981 Posted September 19, 2018 Author Share Posted September 19, 2018 I don't think Allen has no hope but I do know the Bills have already made the climb uphill even greater. He's a player that needed the most conducive environment to pan out and the Bills have made things almost as difficult as they could be at every single turn. Like I wrote earlier, the Bills thought they could wait to play Allen and wait to give him any surrounding talent. So it didn't matter if he wasn't ready. They were egregiously wrong and we just have to hope Allen's mental toughness is strong enough that it ultimately won't matter. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Wagon Posted September 19, 2018 Share Posted September 19, 2018 Unless you do what Mahomes has done or what Watson did last year, I firmly believe a lot of rookie / young QB analysis is confirmation bias. If you liked Allen through the process, you'll look at the throw he made to Zay, his TD in a tight window in the back of the endzone, shrugging off some pass rushers and getting rid of the ball and say "see, I knew things were there", if you didn't, you'll look at his picks when he was forcing throws with the team behind, or a couple of misses and say "see, I knew he was brutal". It's the same thing with Darnold, more people are convinced he'll be better, but he's had some awful INTs (which was a major concern coming in) and missed some relatively easy TD throws. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
co_springs_billsfan Posted September 19, 2018 Share Posted September 19, 2018 43 minutes ago, BillsFan4 said: I am not saying he is wrong. Josh struggled mightily. But, reading through that twitter timeline, this tweet stuck out to me - Does it almost seems like he is excited that Josh Allen struggled and he gets to point it out, or is it just me? He was a very strong critic of Allen before the draft iirc. Oh good! As a rule I disregard people's opinions when they tweet "lmao" 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utah John Posted September 19, 2018 Share Posted September 19, 2018 The biggest mystery to me is why the Bills traded McCarron. He was mediocre but competent, and he would have let Allen sit and watch. Peterman is not ever going to work out. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iinii Posted September 19, 2018 Share Posted September 19, 2018 6 minutes ago, Midwest1981 said: I don't think Allen has no hope but I do know the Bills have already made the climb uphill even greater. He's a player that needed the most conducive environment to pan out and the Bills have made things almost as difficult as they could be at every single turn. Like I wrote earlier, the Bills thought they could wait to play Allen and wait to give him any surrounding talent. So it didn't matter if he wasn't ready. They were egregiously wrong and we just have to hope Allen's mental toughness is strong enough that it ultimately won't matter. But if he is going to be great, he will be great no matter what. Being knocked around week after week just makes you stronger/better. Haven’t you heard? adversity is key to greatness! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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