dave mcbride Posted September 17, 2018 Share Posted September 17, 2018 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Koko78 said: You're trying to qualify the Bills defense looking much better in the second half, and being completely disingenuous about it. You damn well know that the Chargers weren't "protecting the lead" when they went 3-and-out several times to start the second half. You are certainly angry. Why? I happen to disagree with you. It's not as if the Chargers weren't trying to score every drive; I get that. If you look at the drive charts, it was a lot of short stuff punctuated by a couple of nice sacks by the Bills D, which -- again -- did play better in the second half. I chalk that up to McDermott shifting the scheme, mostly. But then they drove down to the 33 and punted, and then they got to the 1 and then lost a TD because whistle stopped play because the Bills had 12 men on the field (there was a nice TD pass on that play). Again, though, the Bills played better. And the Chargers also punted on 4th and short from the Bills' 33. Edited September 17, 2018 by dave mcbride Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted September 17, 2018 Share Posted September 17, 2018 (edited) 12 minutes ago, dave mcbride said: As I said above, the Chargers also took their foot off the gas in the second half at least a little. The D did look better, but the Chargers were in fact protecting a huge lead and it never got closer than 15 points. They even punted on 4th and short from the Bills' 34. Factor that in. Sorry, this is a fan myth that isnt real most the time they say it. The Chargers did not pull their starters and they did not start playing super conservative. The OL did not suddenly say we are not gonna try as hard and let our QB get smashed. The WRs didn't suddenly say we are going to dog it out there now cuz we have a lead. None of this happened, the Chargers were the same team out there and the D made adjustments. They were calling the same plays, still trying to move the ball, and couldn't. And the punt was about not risking field position on a long FG and they made the smart move and looked to pin the Bills down by their goal line to make it both harder to score and take longer and more time off the clock if they do. Bills were in this game almost the entire 2nd half until the costly mistake in the later part of the 4th quarter, and a big reason for that was the Bills shut the Chargers offense down in the 2nd half. Edited September 17, 2018 by Alphadawg7 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted September 17, 2018 Share Posted September 17, 2018 1 minute ago, dave mcbride said: You are certainly angry. Why? I happen to disagree with you. It's not as if the Chargers weren't trying to score every drive; I get that. If you look at the drive charts, it was a lot of short stuff punctuated by a couple of nice sacks by the Bills D, which -- again -- did play better in the second half. I chalk that up to McDermott shifting the scheme, mostly. But then they drove down to the 33 and punted, and then they got to the 1 and then lost a TD because whistle stopped play because the Bills had 12 men on the field (there was a nice TD pass on that play). Again, though, the Bills played better. And the Chargers also punted on 4th and short from the Bills' 33. That punt is one play in the 2nd half.....the fact is the bills D changed the way they were playing in the 2nd half......pass rush was getting there.....players were scrambling to the ball Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Misterbluesky Posted September 17, 2018 Share Posted September 17, 2018 52 minutes ago, ngbills said: What is the excuse? Shouldn't this unit be improved from last year? McD and team had a year to buld the defense how they wanted. They hadded guys and got rid of guys. There were no surprises or losses that they did not decide upon. Lack of talent,period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted September 17, 2018 Share Posted September 17, 2018 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said: Sorry, this is a fan myth that isnt real most the time they say it. The Chargers did NOT at any point go out on offense with anyone other than their starters. They did not start playing super conservative. The OL did not suddenly say we are not gonna try as hard and let our QB get smashed. The WRs didn't suddenly say we are going to dog it out there now cuz we have a lead. None of this happened, the Chargers were the same team out there and the D made adjustments. They were calling the same plays, still trying to move the ball, and couldn't. And the punt is further proof of that. The Bills were absolutely in the game in the 2nd half, especially with how good the D was playing. Rather than risk a long FG and field position (where a TD makes it a one score game by the Bills) they made the smart move and looked to pin the Bills down by their goal line to make it both harder to score and take longer and more time off the clock if they do. In fact, if the drive took long enough, Bills likely would only have the low percentage chance of an onside kick to even get the ball back because the clock would be too low and Chargers likely could run out the clock. Bills were in this game almost the entire 2nd half until the costly mistake in the later part of the 4th quarter, and a big reason for that was the Bills shut the Chargers offense down in the 2nd half. With regard to the bolded part, I should have been clearer. If the game were at all close (which it wasn't given the remaining time left and the terrible performance of the Bills offense up to that point), the Chargers would definitely not have punted from the 33 yard line. That decision is called "protecting a lead." They did play at a faster tempo in the first half too, and on their final possession they picked up the pace again too (granted, they were deep in Bills territory). The Bills D definitely played better, however. I'm not really arguing about that. I'm just saying that situational football was involved too. PS - I thought Hughes played well all game. He's very underrated by many fans. Edited September 17, 2018 by dave mcbride Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanC883 Posted September 17, 2018 Share Posted September 17, 2018 Oliver or Bosa will be here soon..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillnutinHouston Posted September 17, 2018 Share Posted September 17, 2018 McD said yesterday that "we have a lot of young guys". But actually our roster is the third oldest in the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted September 17, 2018 Share Posted September 17, 2018 5 minutes ago, dave mcbride said: With regard to the bolded part, I should have been clearer. If the game were at all close (which it wasn't given the remaining time left and the terrible performance of the Bills offense up to that point), the Chargers would definitely not have punted from the 33 yard line. That decision is called "protecting a lead." They did play at a faster tempo in the first half too, and on their final possession they picked up the pace again too (granted, they were deep in Bills territory). The Bills D definitely played better, however. I'm not really arguing about that. I'm just saying that situational football was involved too. PS - I thought Hughes played well all game. He's very underrated by many fans. I agree about Hughes...my only point in my reply was that Fans often makes this assumption that just isnt accurate that teams with leads suddenly "take the gas off", especially for a whole half in a game that the Chargers have lost many times as they are notorious for being bad about closing games out. Bills D was a different unit in the 2nd half. And I agree with your point about the Punt, thats my point. Its a situational decision of controlling the outcome of the game. But where I disagreed with you is that it was not an indicator of the offensive effort by the Chargers in the 2nd half. The game was very much in play for the Bills almost the entire 2nd half, so its not fair to take away the D's 2nd half performance saying the Chargers let up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted September 17, 2018 Share Posted September 17, 2018 6 minutes ago, BillnutinHouston said: McD said yesterday that "we have a lot of young guys". But actually our roster is the third oldest in the league. I think that the young part of the roster is the future...while the rest of these guys are rentals to get us through the season......jmo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rufridr101 Posted September 17, 2018 Share Posted September 17, 2018 Our best lineman is 35 our best linebacker is 20 only have 3 good players in the secondary with no depth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Posted September 17, 2018 Share Posted September 17, 2018 6 minutes ago, BillnutinHouston said: McD said yesterday that "we have a lot of young guys". But actually our roster is the third oldest in the league. He said the exact same thing last week, referring to the team as young. Several astute posters here pointed out that the team is not young. Maybe McD is referring to who he considers his core players going forward, mainly Allen, Edmunds, White, and a few others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpberr Posted September 17, 2018 Share Posted September 17, 2018 (edited) It's the crap Tampa 2 scheme. Night turned into day because it wasn't being used. Frazier's Tampa 2 is an outdated defense, even if you use it as your fundamental base defense. There's so much space that's open with your CBs and your MLB deep in their zones. I know our CBs don't excel at man defense but how about they not back off 10 yards. That worked in the 90s when quarterbacks weren't as accurate or quick and the WCO wasn't as prolific. Any NFL caliber QB is going to massacre a Tampa 2 today. The ends should just be rushing the passer. See quarterback, get quarterback. That's what made Jim Schwartz's defense so prolific in sacks. Mario Williams and Jerry Hughes had one job only. Frazier has the ends monitoring a zone and it's not working. Until the oppossing team proves otherwise, they should be sending Hughes every down and not have him worry about a zone to protect. Edited September 17, 2018 by dpberr 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CLTbills Posted September 17, 2018 Share Posted September 17, 2018 40 minutes ago, elcrusho said: It was all Vontae...... We only gave up 3 points after he retired..... ? And that was off a rookie-mistake pick! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koko78 Posted September 17, 2018 Share Posted September 17, 2018 33 minutes ago, dave mcbride said: You are certainly angry. Why? I happen to disagree with you. It's not as if the Chargers weren't trying to score every drive; I get that. If you look at the drive charts, it was a lot of short stuff punctuated by a couple of nice sacks by the Bills D, which -- again -- did play better in the second half. I chalk that up to McDermott shifting the scheme, mostly. But then they drove down to the 33 and punted, and then they got to the 1 and then lost a TD because whistle stopped play because the Bills had 12 men on the field (there was a nice TD pass on that play). Again, though, the Bills played better. And the Chargers also punted on 4th and short from the Bills' 33. You're giving backhanded "compliments" and are properly being called out on it. You point to one decision, which - by the way - was discussed by the announcers. The Chargers' kicker sucks. They have no confidence in him hitting 50+ yard field goals, and played the field position game instead. The Chargers weren't laying up at any point prior to taking a knee in the 4th quarter. Interesting how the ball keeps moving up every time you reference the punt decision by Lynn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bing Bong Posted September 17, 2018 Share Posted September 17, 2018 1 hour ago, ngbills said: What is the excuse? Shouldn't this unit be improved from last year? McD and team had a year to buld the defense how they wanted. They hadded guys and got rid of guys. There were no surprises or losses that they did not decide upon. Aside from the defenders not playing well themselves, I get the feeling they don't believe they can win with the offense their saddled with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BmarvB Posted September 17, 2018 Share Posted September 17, 2018 The seat under Leslie Frazier is heating up fast Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSHMEAB Posted September 17, 2018 Share Posted September 17, 2018 How many first time HC's get to fire their offensive and defensive coordinators 2 years in? I've never liked Frazier's conservative defensive approach, but at some point, we have to start questioning the guy making these decisions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Straight Hucklebuck Posted September 17, 2018 Share Posted September 17, 2018 1 hour ago, ngbills said: What is the excuse? Shouldn't this unit be improved from last year? McD and team had a year to buld the defense how they wanted. They hadded guys and got rid of guys. There were no surprises or losses that they did not decide upon. We are a collection of old players (Jerry Hughes, Kyle Williams, Lorenzo Alexander), scrub FAs (Murphy, Star L), undersized (Milano), young (White and Edmunds) and regression to the mean (Poyer, Hyde) playing an outdated/conservative scheme. The answer is we have few good players playing in their prime on first contracts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted September 17, 2018 Share Posted September 17, 2018 (edited) 27 minutes ago, Koko78 said: You're giving backhanded "compliments" and are properly being called out on it. You point to one decision, which - by the way - was discussed by the announcers. The Chargers' kicker sucks. They have no confidence in him hitting 50+ yard field goals, and played the field position game instead. The Chargers weren't laying up at any point prior to taking a knee in the 4th quarter. Interesting how the ball keeps moving up every time you reference the punt decision by Lynn. I don't understand why are so quick to demean me and accuse me of suspect motives in your posts (e.g.., the scare quote above). It's not the best way to carry on a debate. Personal attacks -- which these are -- just drag this board down. More specifically, I disagree with your argument because while the Bills D did certainly did play better, which I've said numerous times, situational football played a role. As for punting, they were at the Bills' 33 yard line and it was fourth and 3. If the game were on the line or if they feared the Bills' offense, they would not have punted. As for the announcers, their kicker is Caleb Sturgis (new to the team). He is an 81 percent kicker lifetime (with improvement year on year; 85.4 percent his last full season) and 3 for 4 this year. Going back to 2016, he's made 5 of his last 7 50+ yard field goals. He's actually a decent kicker, albeit not the best in the league. Regardless, it's not like the kicking situation they had last year, which literally cost them a playoff spot. So I fundamentally disagree with you about their kicker sucking. Edited September 17, 2018 by dave mcbride Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koko78 Posted September 17, 2018 Share Posted September 17, 2018 7 minutes ago, dave mcbride said: So I fundamentally disagree with you about their kicker sucking. Take it up with CBS then. I'm sure you know more than they do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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