Joe B.: Bills Sacrificing Miserable Season For Long-Term Growth

[BigBuff423]

22 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

 

Again so How does Kerley and Holmes fit this plan movement. They contradict their propaganda with this roster decisions. But hey blind faith is good too. 

 

Speaking of UFA so do you want Beane spending that money. Look at HIS offseason this year. That inspires right?

 

Because, they fit the money for what they could spend. Cam Phillips on the PS gets him reps and keeps him with the team but doesn't put the WR squad a Benjamin, Zay and a bunch of Rookies. How is that so hard to understand? They couldn't afford Watkins or want to trade and sign Cooks, because the team is NOT THERE YET. As for Beane's Off-season....I just think you're frustrated and pissed off and refuse to take things in context. Wood and Incognito were unexpected and they refused to bow to that demand because they had a plan: to rid the team of poor Cap management to move forward for the future. And yes, I think Beane and McD were very upfront with Terry and Kim about how this plan needed to go. While no one is happy about losing, sometimes its a bonafide necessity. For years fans wanted the team to tear it all down and rebuild again, and now that it's happening they're complaining. FFS people...they overachieved last year and made the hard decision to suck up the Cap misery and plan for the years to come. 

 

And for your Kerley and Holmes comment, but I feel I've answered twice now, you ignored all of the other points about how McD is playing a bunch of young guys. 

[MAJBobby]

18 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

They are not completely tearing it down and rebuilding.  They said last year they have short term and long term goals.  They do this year as well.  They can't get rid of every veteran, and it doesn't mean every young kid plays before a vet is they think the vet is better.  This year will be a longer year because e they have a rookie QB that is learning, and a rookie MLB that is learning.  Plus they need to improve their lines (and there I would say the young guys like Teller should get their shot sooner vs. later).

 

You are so busy trying to make snarky comments you don't actually read. They have a lot of work to do, as I've outlined in other posts this morning.  And their plan will necessitate good personnel decisions.  As does the plan of every other team in the league.

OK THey said that BEFORE the season, after 47-3 the spin machine is saying this was expected.  SO if this was expected and planned WHY did their offseason moves CONTRADICT it

2 minutes ago, BigBuff423 said:

 

Because, they fit the money for what they could spend. Cam Phillips on the PS gets him reps and keeps him with the team but doesn't put the WR squad a Benjamin, Zay and a bunch of Rookies. How is that so hard to understand? They couldn't afford Watkins or want to trade and sign Cooks, because the team is NOT THERE YET. As for Beane's Off-season....I just think you're frustrated and pissed off and refuse to take things in context. Wood and Incognito were unexpected and they refused to bow to that demand because they had a plan: to rid the team of poor Cap management to move forward for the future. And yes, I think Beane and McD were very upfront with Terry and Kim about how this plan needed to go. While no one is happy about losing, sometimes its a bonafide necessity. For years fans wanted the team to tear it all down and rebuild again, and now that it's happening they're complaining. FFS people...they overachieved last year and made the hard decision to suck up the Cap misery and plan for the years to come. 

 

And for your Kerley and Holmes comment, but I feel I've answered twice now, you ignored all of the other points about how McD is playing a bunch of young guys. 

Again so paying 3.5M to Coleman for NOT playing and maybe taking a little longer to see if that former 1st round pick and top WR in college to get the offense on a two year cost controlled contract was not as smart as Kerley or Holmes and ooo by the way Coleman would not have been a rookie and has performed at the NFL Level.

 

But I know cant question ONE move from the process even if it contradicts the latest spin about that undefined process

[oldmanfan]

1 minute ago, MAJBobby said:

OK THey said that BEFORE the season, after 47-3 the spin machine is saying this was expected.  SO if this was expected and planned WHY did their offseason moves CONTRADICT it

Writing in caps is just childish.  They want to compete short and long term.  The moves they made are not contradictory.  To compete long term they knew they needed a young franchise-like QB and a leader for their D.  They made moves to get them in this draft.  They knew they wanted to take their cap hit completely and get it over with.  They did that. 

 

You keep harping on Kerley and Holmes as if those are definitive proof of something.  Kerley I suspect will bounce on and off the roster for the year.  Holmes is not as good or bad as any other #4 receiver and is a guy they count on for special teams.

 

Quit acting like a child, read what other people offer, and answer them instead of just writing the same rants (and in capitals no less as if that means anything).

[Hapless Bills Fan]

33 minutes ago, BigBuff423 said:

 

They Drafted their believed franchise QB....that used a lot of Draft capital but nothing that gave up 2019 or beyond. They have 9 or 10 Draft picks upcoming, and have a bunch of FA money for next year. They're playing Allen, Edmunds, and Horrible Harry and Taron Johnson - picks in rounds 1 through 4, and Teller looks like a promising player in the 5th round. Neal is on STs and Robert Foster - the UDFA - is suiting up on game day. Last year's picks, Dawkins, Tre, Zay, Milano are all playing important roles for them - albeit Zay is struggling and this year is healthy, but all of the WRs have been pretty bad thus far. Croom is young as well. 

 

I'm not sure what's so hard to understand in that they can't trot out Rookies at EVERY position, so considering how many Rookies and 2nd year players are actually starting or playing a larger role, I don't know what more you can expect. You can't fix every position in one year, not even in two years - UNLESS YOU SPEND A BUNCH OF FA MONEY - which they were NOT going to do in 2018. They were committed to getting dead money off the books, clearing out the space and building contracts they way they believed sustained long-term success. 

 

I'm not concerned about the lack of rookies.  What concerns me is that where they have brought guys in, they've often brought in older guys on the downhill slide of their career, who even if they play well, are not the future - in preference to younger players whom they've either let walk or traded away.  They're also playing long-in-the-tooth vets in preference to young players at times

 

Examples:

-26 year old EJ Gaines vs 30 yr old Vontae Davis - similar contracts

-letting Robert Woods (26) and Marquise Goodwin (27) walk (along with younger WR prospects last 2 years) vs bringing in Andre Holmes (30) and Jeremy Kerley (29)

 

There's also the persistent excuse that they are hampered by the huge dead cap they themselves created, and could easily have lessened with different decisions.

 

Maybe these guys have a plan, and maybe their plan will work, but if their plan is overall to improve the talent on the roster to win now and in the future (as they say it is), it kind of looks more like they trashed the place.

 

 

 

[dabills21]

2 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

Writing in caps is just childish.  They want to compete short and long term.  The moves they made are not contradictory.  To compete long term they knew they needed a young franchise-like QB and a leader for their D.  They made moves to get them in this draft.  They knew they wanted to take their cap hit completely and get it over with.  They did that. 

 

You keep harping on Kerley and Holmes as if those are definitive proof of something.  Kerley I suspect will bounce on and off the roster for the year.  Holmes is not as good or bad as any other #4 receiver and is a guy they count on for special teams.

 

Quit acting like a child, read what other people offer, and answer them instead of just writing the same rants (and in capitals no less as if that means anything).

Trust me, this guy is not worth your time.  He's blind with rage, and for some reason thinks the Kerley release is a signal that Beane has no clue.

 

FWIW, I agree with you completely.   Logic and patience is lost on the angry and out of touch

[MAJBobby]

Just now, oldmanfan said:

Writing in caps is just childish.  They want to compete short and long term.  The moves they made are not contradictory.  To compete long term they knew they needed a young franchise-like QB and a leader for their D.  They made moves to get them in this draft.  They knew they wanted to take their cap hit completely and get it over with.  They did that. 

 

You keep harping on Kerley and Holmes as if those are definitive proof of something.  Kerley I suspect will bounce on and off the roster for the year.  Holmes is not as good or bad as any other #4 receiver and is a guy they count on for special teams.

 

Quit acting like a child, read what other people offer, and answer them instead of just writing the same rants (and in capitals no less as if that means anything).

 Writing certain words in caps emphasis those words, and are not childish.  They absolutely are.  The McCarron signing was, The Davis Signing was, the Kerley or Holmes making the Roster was.  And yes I keep harping on Kerley because it was the latest point to the contradictory offseason to the latest spin of the nebulous defined Process.  See the organization doesnt define it, only say trust it.  But then Media and Fans define it to fit what they want.  I never once defined it at all.  I look at what they say "planned development year, youth movement was planned" then evaluate that statement AGAINST their roster moves which say otherwise to come up with this planned development year is an after the fact excuse to the team not being remotely competitive for now 2 weeks.

[row_33]

Pain does not guarantee success in the future.

 

 

[BadLandsMeanie]

Who tanks the year AFTER they select a QB?

 

 

And, did the openness with the Pegulas include that the players aren't coached well enough to understand what they are doing?

 

Low talent is one thing. But they look a bit lost.

 

 

[Billsatlastin2018]

"I hope it works, ...but this is basically the line we were sold with the Sabres a few years ago, but the GM proved much more adept at tearing down what was there and acquiring future assetts, than he was at re-building...so we were treated to an extended period of some of the most miserable seasons in Sabres franchise history...lets just hope McDermot and Beane know how to re-build an NFL team, better than Tim Murray did and NHL team."

 

And therein, lies the rub! For the vast majority of NFL teams, this 'destroy and rebuild process' makes sense- a lot of it. But, you have to have 1000% confidence in the abilities of OBD's Management team to make the vast, vast, majority of correct- no great decisions immediately, as they occur,- whether it's via the Draft or FA!

 

NO WHIFFS!

 

I simply don't- given the pathetic track record of this entire Millennium. The bottom line is that THIS Bills team perhaps has 50% of its players on the field, that belong in the Sunday Night Beer League!

 

50%! 

 

It's never here a question of JUST grabbing the Top 10 QB and all systems go. Noooooo...the Bills have FUBARed making the proper moves and they have needed 1-2 OL, a DE, a LB, a WR, a S/CB PLUS the Top 10 QB. And in 2018, they need another half dozen.

 

It's just a Groundhog Day Titanic- one move forward and 5 back! 

[Rocbillsfan1]

9 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

Yea because Joe B has inside info.

 

Terrible piece. What was "long overdue"? Trading away and not retaining young talented players for draft picks and replacing them with trash? 

 

We have no young players Joe.... due to the new regime. 

 

It doesn't take 5 years to rebuild a football team. Why is this so hard to understand?

 

 

This is year 1 of the rebuild. Last year was still mostly an evaluation period and all about acquiring draft capital and removing dead weight in cap space. 

[BadLandsMeanie]

10 hours ago, BuffaloRush said:

Great comments from Joe B.  He does a great job putting things into perspective and has been echoing what many of us have been saying for a while.  Read the comments in bold

 

https://www.wkbw.com/sports/bills/joe-b-7-observations-from-buffalo-bills-los-angeles-chargers-9_16_18

 

 

 

This would be more convincing if it was written 20 years ago

 

I mean we are getting into loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong term here by now!

[MAJBobby]

5 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I'm not concerned about the lack of rookies.  What concerns me is that where they have brought guys in, they've often brought in older guys on the downhill slide of their career, who even if they play well, are not the future - in preference to younger players whom they've either let walk or traded away.  They're also playing long-in-the-tooth vets in preference to young players at times

 

Examples:

-26 year old EJ Gaines vs 30 yr old Vontae Davis - similar contracts

-letting Robert Woods (26) and Marquise Goodwin (27) walk (along with younger WR prospects last 2 years) vs bringing in Andre Holmes (30) and Jeremy Kerley (29)

 

There's also the persistent excuse that they are hampered by the huge dead cap they themselves created, and could easily have lessened with different decisions.

 

Maybe these guys have a plan, and maybe their plan will work, but if their plan is overall to improve the talent on the roster to win now and in the future (as they say it is), it kind of looks more like they trashed the place.

 

 

 

Exactly, you didnt see Dorsey throw the baby out with the bathwater taking over a 1-31 team as GM did you

5 minutes ago, dabills21 said:

Trust me, this guy is not worth your time.  He's blind with rage, and for some reason thinks the Kerley release is a signal that Beane has no clue.

 

FWIW, I agree with you completely.   Logic and patience is lost on the angry and out of touch

Not one person has been able to explain or defend the obvious contradictions.  I find it funny that people that differ in their opinion are blind with rage, out of touch.  Let me ask how has BLIND faith in previous regimes worked?

[BarleyNY]

The surprising thing about this being a tear down rebuilding year is that the Bills are the 5th oldest team in the NFL. I’d expect them to be a lot younger. 

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.phillyvoice.com/ranking-nfl-teams-age-after-53-man-cutdowns-2018-edition/amp/

[BigBuff423]

26 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

OK THey said that BEFORE the season, after 47-3 the spin machine is saying this was expected.  SO if this was expected and planned WHY did their offseason moves CONTRADICT it

Again so paying 3.5M to Coleman for NOT playing and maybe taking a little longer to see if that former 1st round pick and top WR in college to get the offense on a two year cost controlled contract was not as smart as Kerley or Holmes and ooo by the way Coleman would not have been a rookie and has performed at the NFL Level.

 

But I know cant question ONE move from the process even if it contradicts the latest spin about that undefined process

 

Paying 3.5 to Coleman was about hoping to unearth potential top level talent at a very reasonable cost both in money and Draft pick which is basically the value of an UDFA, given how far away it is and that it is a 7th round pick. At this point it seems more like you've just made up your mind that you don't like the team in its current condition and just don't like it without acknowledging it's part of their overhaul. Ok, cool....every fan is entitled to their opinion obviously, but this takes just seem so pervasively negative without true justification.

[MAJBobby]

1 minute ago, BigBuff423 said:

 

Paying 3.5 to Coleman was about hoping to unearth potential top level talent at a very reasonable cost both in money and Draft pick which is basically the value of an UDFA, given how far away it is and that it is a 7th round pick. At this point it seems more like you've just made up your mind that you don't like the team in its current condition and just don't like it without acknowledging it's part of their overhaul. Ok, cool....every fan is entitled to their opinion obviously, but this takes just seem so pervasively negative without true justification.

 

Then WHY did they keep him for 2 weeks and go with Kerley if they were hoping to unearth that top WR.  See that is WHY the Kerley thing is in DIRECT contradiction to the latest spin out of the OBD propaganda machine.  And as I have said I could accept this tear down and this youth and development this year IF the offseason moves and future moves do not directly Contradict it.  

 

Example If they do not go sign a player like Gentry of the Bears PS and keep trotting Holmes out there.  Or Re-sign Kerley

Edited September 17, 2018 by MAJBobby

[BigBuff423]

19 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I'm not concerned about the lack of rookies.  What concerns me is that where they have brought guys in, they've often brought in older guys on the downhill slide of their career, who even if they play well, are not the future - in preference to younger players whom they've either let walk or traded away.  They're also playing long-in-the-tooth vets in preference to young players at times

 

Examples:

-26 year old EJ Gaines vs 30 yr old Vontae Davis - similar contracts

-letting Robert Woods (26) and Marquise Goodwin (27) walk (along with younger WR prospects last 2 years) vs bringing in Andre Holmes (30) and Jeremy Kerley (29)

 

There's also the persistent excuse that they are hampered by the huge dead cap they themselves created, and could easily have lessened with different decisions.

 

Maybe these guys have a plan, and maybe their plan will work, but if their plan is overall to improve the talent on the roster to win now and in the future (as they say it is), it kind of looks more like they trashed the place.

 

 

 

 

I disagree with Woods and Goodwin because at a time when they are and will be good, the team will just be rounding into shape. As for older Vets, again, IMHO, it's their way of putting something on the field other than a team of 1st and 2nd year players in hopes they would be competitive while building for the future. And this FO didn't create the Cap issues, Doug Whaley did, they're just cleaning up his mess. I think we can all see that ridding the team of certain players that they didn't believe held team first mentality was the priority and then letting guys go that they didn't think fit what they wanted to accomplish. To me all in all it was this simple: they didn't have the players they wanted and the good players they had, cost too damn much. 

[Chuck Wagon]

I don't buy being the worst team in football is part of the plan at all.  None of their moves speak to planning on going 0-16.  It seems pretty clear they thought this team's core is a legitimate playoff team, attempted to shore up some weak points by bringing in Star to help vs the run, Edmunds to take over and upgrade the LB corps, Davis to replace Gaines.  Bodine and Newhouse on the line.

 

They thought the defense was legitimate last year and just needed some patching in different areas, meanwhile the offense had enough to make Peterman/a rookie QB passable enough to win conservative games.  They badly miss-evaluated the talent they had in the building and their FA signings.  You don't make an aggressive trade up for a linebacker if you think the team is rebuilding and in need of an infusion of young talent, that's a "we think we are close and he'll be a key piece" move.

[corta765]

10 hours ago, Your brain broke said:

Where has anyone (ownership,Bean McDermott) come out and said they expected this or are that it's all part of their "process"?

 

When has ANY NFL team actively come out and said their going to see off a season? They can't and won't because its wrong competitively and business wise basically tells the customer don't expect much.

[NewEra]

10 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

Yea because Joe B has inside info.

 

Terrible piece. What was "long overdue"? Trading away and not retaining young talented players for draft picks and replacing them with trash? 

 

We have no young players Joe.... due to the new regime. 

 

It doesn't take 5 years to rebuild a football team. Why is this so hard to understand?

 

 

Overreact much?  Nooo not you?  We have several young players.  Allen, Edmunds, White, Milano, Dawkins, Phillips, Johnson, Jones.  They aren’t all all pros, but all are young and are considered to be talented prospects.

 

who is saying it takes 5 years to rebuild?  This is year 2 and the results and talent level are a result of purging bad contracts and malcontents.  Almost doubling the 2nd highest team in dead cap space.  That was expected.  The following 2 offseasons will determine if the rebuild is a success or a failure.  I’d rather be in this position for a year than pay Sammy 16 mill and dareus 18 mill.  Those guys weren’t producing while they were here and I’m glad they’re gone.  Losing wood to injury and incognito to insanity wasn’t part of their process.  It happened and  they didn’t have the money to replace them adequately.  So this is what we get.  We get to wait til next year while grooming the young guys that we have.  And yes, we do have some quality young players, regardless if you think so or not.

[MAJBobby]

2 minutes ago, BigBuff423 said:

 

I disagree with Woods and Goodwin because at a time when they are and will be good, the team will just be rounding into shape. As for older Vets, again, IMHO, it's their way of putting something on the field other than a team of 1st and 2nd year players in hopes they would be competitive while building for the future. And this FO didn't create the Cap issues, Doug Whaley did, they're just cleaning up his mess. I think we can all see that ridding the team of certain players that they didn't believe held team first mentality was the priority and then letting guys go that they didn't think fit what they wanted to accomplish. To me all in all it was this simple: they didn't have the players they wanted and the good players they had, cost too damn much. 

They Created the DEAD Cap Issues.  

 

1.  Dareus - why could he have not been on this team right now, instead of paying 22M against the cap for Star (who will also be gone by the time the team is good) 

2.  Tyrod / McCarron - completely SELF INFLICTED 10M this year and 2M next in dead cap

3.  Glenn - Still could be here and at RT 

4.  Wood - Completely Self inflicted (but giving that a pass on the health)

5.  Coleman - Completely self inflicted.

 

There are your TOP 5 Dead Cap numbers this year.