Agent 91 Posted September 14, 2018 Share Posted September 14, 2018 6 hours ago, oldmanfan said: It is worth note that the coach in question was the coach of a playoff team last year. I's not really worth a grain of salt. What's worth noting is while we trust the process. DICK Jauron and Rex Ryan in 6 combined season have lost by 20 or more 11 times. McDermott already has lost by 20 5 times in 17 games. What's also worth exploring is how long will we have to wait before being competitive in a playoff game? I have a hard time thinking we could have been just as competitive with New England, Pittsburgh. This is a what have you done for me lately league teams have turned in a heartbeat. Last year was fun but it's time to focus on the now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted September 14, 2018 Share Posted September 14, 2018 2 hours ago, GunnerBill said: But it does..... because Peterman was never, ever, ever, in a million years going to be capable of that. Why? Because he is not an NFL level talent. He just isn't. Never was, never will be. So it matters because: A) It has undoubtedly changed the calculation from "when is Allen ready?" to "Allen is our only viable option." I'd have started Allen day 1 because I always felt he was our only viable option. But the Bills obviously had some sort of timetable in mind and that is out of the water because of the rather regrettable way they approach competition for their first round pick in March and April. B) It really worries me that our brain trust couldn't see what should have been obvious. I'd love to get McDermott, Beane and Dabol in a room away from the cameras and the microphones and ask them what they saw. Because if these guys really think Nathan Peterman can play in this league it is a significant worry about their evaluation skills. Was Allen's timetable pushed up because the Peterman explosion? Yes. So big freaking deal. If Allen struggles more than he would have if he had more time as a backup my response is so what? Again, big freaking deal! Aikman was throne into the fire right from the start. He got pummeled and battered and struggled for a couple of years. He survived his brutalization and went on to lead his team to SB victories and earned a gold jacket for himself. I'm not suggesting that Allen is an Aikman caliber of qb but what I'm saying is playing sooner than expected is not preordaining a doomsday scenario. This McCarron vs Peterman debate is a waste of time. They are in the same lower rung category. Let me refresh your memory about the camp and preseason: Peterman outperformed McCarron. What does that mean? Nothing, because both qbs were placeholders for the future franchise qb. Let's stop this foolishness about you insinuating that McDermott visioned Peterman as a franchise qb. That's utter nonsense. If you believe that then why did the wrestling coach and organization invest so much resources in drafting Allen in the next draft year?. You are trying to portray it as if McDermott was fooled in knowing what the talent of Peterman was. That's a figment of your run amuck imagination. This organization drafted Peterman in the fifth round. They know what the talent level of a fifth round qb is and they know the talent level of the high first round qb they drafted this year. You are treating the Peterman start as a franchise catastrophe that will reverberate beyond the one game that he started. That is an absurdity because there are so many reasons beyond Peterman as to why this team is going to struggle this year. It's time that you save your ammo for targets that actually exist beyond this one player who is no longer starting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starrymessenger Posted September 14, 2018 Share Posted September 14, 2018 2 hours ago, dneveu said: Agreed - They absolutely are. JuJu is slower, but he has shown the ability to get open more consistently than Zay - and CATCH the ball. Kupp is a niche player, but he's already one of the better players in that niche in the NFL. Doesn't mean Zay can't turn it around... but so far they have vastly out performed him. Yeah I know WRs can be slow to develop and he probably didn't land in such a good spot but to me he really hasn't shown anything good at all so far and I do find that concerning and even surprising. Also not sure how the move to JA will affect Zay. One of the things Josh needs to work on is making his throws, especially the short ones (but I'd add intermediate) more catchable/receiver friendly. A little too much mustard on them at times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted September 14, 2018 Share Posted September 14, 2018 (edited) 3 minutes ago, starrymessenger said: Yeah I know WRs can be slow to develop and he probably didn't land in such a good spot but to me he really hasn't shown anything good at all so far and I do find that concerning and even surprising. Also not sure how the move to JA will affect Zay. One of the things Josh needs to work on is making his throws, especially the short ones (but I'd add intermediate) more catchable/receiver friendly. A little too much mustard on them at times. Yeah - but from a receiver perspective... JA is probably the best guy you can ask for at this point after what he had the last year and a half. Jones never had the timing down with Tyrod, and peterman just can't get the ball where it needs to be. We'll see i suppose. I'd like him to step up and be the guy though... Benjamin is clearly a lost cause. Edited September 14, 2018 by dneveu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fadingpain Posted September 14, 2018 Share Posted September 14, 2018 3 hours ago, GunnerBill said: But it does..... because Peterman was never, ever, ever, in a million years going to be capable of that. Why? Because he is not an NFL level talent. He just isn't. Never was, never will be. So it matters because: A) It has undoubtedly changed the calculation from "when is Allen ready?" to "Allen is our only viable option." I'd have started Allen day 1 because I always felt he was our only viable option. But the Bills obviously had some sort of timetable in mind and that is out of the water because of the rather regrettable way they approach competition for their first round pick in March and April. B) It really worries me that our brain trust couldn't see what should have been obvious. I'd love to get McDermott, Beane and Dabol in a room away from the cameras and the microphones and ask them what they saw. Because if these guys really think Nathan Peterman can play in this league it is a significant worry about their evaluation skills. I completely agree with the highlighted text. It begs the question, just what did our scouting department and HC see in Nate Peterman? And why didn't they immediately dismiss him as not an NFL talent? Further, if they could be that wrong with Nate, why couldn't they be that wrong with Allen? Doesn't inspire confidence in their judgment, does it? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted September 14, 2018 Share Posted September 14, 2018 14 minutes ago, Fadingpain said: I completely agree with the highlighted text. It begs the question, just what did our scouting department and HC see in Nate Peterman? And why didn't they immediately dismiss him as not an NFL talent? Further, if they could be that wrong with Nate, why couldn't they be that wrong with Allen? Doesn't inspire confidence in their judgment, does it? He was projected to be a backup QB - so many of these guys never make a roster or see the field. Our terrible qb room got him on the field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyDays Posted September 14, 2018 Share Posted September 14, 2018 4 hours ago, Iron Maiden said: Bill's fan thought process..... Off season : This is year 2 of rebuilding...we are getting rid of Whaley's mistakes and the cap nightmare....it's going to be a rough year....our Oline will not be competitive...get ready for a long season...we will be rewarded for our patience in 2019..... After a week 1 loss....WTF !!! we suck !!!!....our HC and GM have no clue..... Believe it or not many fans expected us to be competitive this year. We shouldn't have been competitive last year either. The coaches are doing their best while they completely rebuild the roster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSHMEAB Posted September 14, 2018 Share Posted September 14, 2018 11 hours ago, Doc Brown said: How much did Daboll have a say in this? If he was a major part of the decision, I'm not trusting his evaluation skills either. Hopefully, Allen can save their bacon, but I hate the situation they're putting him in. They have nobody to blame but themselves. With Daboll's abysmal track record, I'm surprised he's getting such a pass around these parts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted September 14, 2018 Share Posted September 14, 2018 4 minutes ago, HappyDays said: Believe it or not many fans expected us to be competitive this year. We shouldn't have been competitive last year either. The coaches are doing their best while they completely rebuild the roster. To add to what you are saying most outside analysts projected that the Bills would be in the lower rung. The majority of outside commentators were putting us in the 4 to 6 game range. Last year was an aberration. where the team overachieved way beyond its talent level. That is a tribute to the coaches and players buying in. The Bills are in the second year of a probable four year rebuild. When you run a marathon you start at the beginning. It's going to take time. And there is no other way around that harsh reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyDays Posted September 14, 2018 Share Posted September 14, 2018 4 hours ago, ScottLaw said: As would I John. I just think they holding on to a top LT like Glenn and trading up for Allen could've easily been accomplished by giving up other assets such as draft picks which they obviously had available. Keeping Glenn wouldn't have solved anything. Dawkins is fine at LT. Glenn never played RT so who knows if he could have been good there. But our bigger problem is the interior. We did use a 5th round pick on Teller. If we had used say our 3rd round pick on an interior lineman then people would complain we didn't draft DT which was another need. Or if we hadn't been able to get Edmunds people would complain we didn't replace Preston Brown. We were never going to replace all our losses in one offseason, especially once Wood and Incognito retired. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B Fan in LA Posted September 14, 2018 Share Posted September 14, 2018 33 minutes ago, HappyDays said: We were never going to replace all our losses in one offseason, especially once Wood and Incognito retired. I think what you, and many of the posters are trying to say is that the team assembled this year is a project. This team was not designed to put us in "the best position to win" We are treading water this year, hoping to keep from drowning, and I don't think they'd mind if we tanked. Look at the schedule. Let's just hope they find a veteran QB who can mentor JA this year, and possibly play some snaps when JA gets injured. Having NP be the only other QB on this team is stupid, IMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted September 14, 2018 Share Posted September 14, 2018 1 hour ago, Agent 91 said: I's not really worth a grain of salt. What's worth noting is while we trust the process. DICK Jauron and Rex Ryan in 6 combined season have lost by 20 or more 11 times. McDermott already has lost by 20 5 times in 17 games. What's also worth exploring is how long will we have to wait before being competitive in a playoff game? I have a hard time thinking we could have been just as competitive with New England, Pittsburgh. This is a what have you done for me lately league teams have turned in a heartbeat. Last year was fun but it's time to focus on the now I mention it only in context of the comments that they don't know what they're doing. Generally clueless coaches and GMs aren't associated with playoff teams. i've said before and will say again: they have a plan. Let them execute their plan. If their plan is unsuccessful they will lose their jobs. If successful we'll all celebrate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H2o Posted September 14, 2018 Share Posted September 14, 2018 The loss of Wood and Richie on the OL is huge. It wasn't expected and we didn't have to cap to replace them with on par talent due to the dead cap. I knew this year was going to be tough looking at the roster and our schedule way back when Mini Camp started. The same guy that everyone was praising last year for getting the most out of a not so talented across the board roster is now the same guy everyone wants to run out of town on a rail for what happened after 1 regular season game with an even weaker roster. Seems pretty strange to me. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicken Boo Posted September 14, 2018 Share Posted September 14, 2018 (edited) My gut...McDermott ain't it. His conservative coaching style is outdated and will be his downfall. Could you ever imagine Sean running the 'Philly Special' in such a monumental game or actually trying to convert from 3rd and long, deep in his own territory? Unless he adapts, the Bills will be searching for a coach, yet again, in 3 seasons. Before anyone replies, pointing out the lack of talent on offense, let me remind you. This current offense is the one he and Beane created. 9 hours ago, GreggTX said: Sadly, people don't understand that we're rebuilding and couldn't fill all the holes in the roster in a single offseason. I agree they didn't have the team ready last Sunday, but if they show any progress before December that would be a positive. Fill all the holes? Aside from QB, what holes did they fill on offense? Going into the second season where they've done a piss poor job addressing offensive line woes. Edited September 14, 2018 by Chicken Boo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent 91 Posted September 14, 2018 Share Posted September 14, 2018 34 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: I mention it only in context of the comments that they don't know what they're doing. Generally clueless coaches and GMs aren't associated with playoff teams. i've said before and will say again: they have a plan. Let them execute their plan. If their plan is unsuccessful they will lose their jobs. If successful we'll all celebrate. I hear you man I hear you... Its just tough to have blind faith. I just want my team to be feared at some point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VW82 Posted September 14, 2018 Share Posted September 14, 2018 (edited) Yeah...I just don't get the opinion that this is business as usual for a rookie QB. 100% agree with OP. Maybe Allen won't be ruined by this experience and will overcome the terrible spot he's been put in but don't tell me it isn't a terrible spot for a raw, rookie QB. McBeane F'd this up and they know it. There was too much invested in Josh to handle the situation this way. Too much at stake to not give him every advantage to succeed. Imagine you're starting a new job out of Uni, the hot shot new recruit. Except, while still in your training period the company fires the manager and promotes you to be manager. Now you have to lead all these people even though you don't fully know your job and the whole industry is watching your every move. Now pretend all those people under you are also counting on you to make them look good so they can earn their living and provide for their families. This just wouldn't happen in any other walk of life, and should never have happened on the Bills. It's BY FAR the most questionable decision I've seen by the Bills in a long, long time and there have been a lot of questionable decisions. Edited September 14, 2018 by VW82 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted September 14, 2018 Share Posted September 14, 2018 15 minutes ago, Chicken Boo said: Could you ever imagine Sean running the 'Philly Special' in such a monumental game or actually trying to convert from 3rd and long, deep in his own territory? He did it last week, when Josh was in there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted September 14, 2018 Share Posted September 14, 2018 9 minutes ago, VW82 said: Yeah...I just don't get the opinion that this is business as usual for a rookie QB. 100% agree with OP. Maybe Allen won't be ruined by this experience and will overcome the terrible spot he's been put in but don't tell me it isn't a terrible spot for a raw, rookie QB. McBeane F'd this up and they know it. There was too much invested in Josh to handle the situation this way. Too much at stake to not give him every advantage to succeed. Imagine you're starting a new job out of Uni, the hot shot new recruit. Except, while still in your training period the company fires the manager and promotes you to be manager. Now you have to lead all these people even though you don't fully know your job and the whole industry is watching your every move. Now pretend all those people under you are also counting on you to make them look good so they can earn their living and provide for their families. This just wouldn't happen in any other walk of life, and should never have happened on the Bills. It's BY FAR the most questionable decision I've seen by the Bills in a long, long time and there have been a lot of questionable decisions. If you had waited to get all the stuff around him you want, you wouldn't have Allen. 17 minutes ago, Agent 91 said: I hear you man I hear you... Its just tough to have blind faith. I just want my team to be feared at some point. We'll get there someday. Of course being an old fart I had that time in '64 and'65. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicken Boo Posted September 14, 2018 Share Posted September 14, 2018 19 minutes ago, joesixpack said: He did it last week, when Josh was in there. The game was a lost cause. They had nothing to lose at that point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted September 14, 2018 Share Posted September 14, 2018 Just now, Chicken Boo said: The game was a lost cause. They had nothing to lose at that point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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