Sadly, McDermott is the wrong guy to develop his own guys

[Wayne Cubed]

 

8 minutes ago, BigBuff423 said:

Peterman was a poor choice, but McD had to be a man of his word and say that whomever earned that right, would get it. Then, Allen struggled in the Bengals game and Peterman - up to that point - was just lights out. Over 80% completion rate, 1 INT that bounced of Ivory's hands, multiple TDs and moving the Offense up and down the field. What happened? Well, I suppose we know definitively without question Nate is just not a Sunday QB, he's a great practice and scrimmage QB. I have a feeling, Allen will be the opposite and when the lights come on, the pressure bears down and the yards and games count, he'll shine. Maybe I'm wrong, but it's time to find out. 

 

I don't see anyone throwing in the towel, just questioning some of the decision making, which I think is certainly a reasonable thing to do.

 

As far as the quoted paragraph, Allen struggled against the Bengals in a game without starting LT Dion Dawkins and a rotation of the interior of the OL. You could argue the struggle was McD's own doing. Add to that Peterman faced one "1st team" defense and had 1 good drive against that defense, which were playing fairly vanilla. The rest of the preseason he was going against guys who aren't in the league anymore. Sure be a man of your word but don't you think he should have tested Peterman a bit more?

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, oldmanfan said:

Absolutely.  But also let's remember they have a multiyear plan to get this done, right? 

 

I am not quitting on the process. I think the strategy is right I think the tactics they used last offseason were questionable. 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

11 minutes ago, BigBuff423 said:

I find it interesting everyone - AFTER ONE FREAKING WEEK - is ready to throw in the towel on how this team, i.e. McDermott, develops talent and in this thread's specific case, QB. I don't know why it's so hard for fans to understand what has actually happened when you take the intent of Beane and McD with what happened in the Off-season to know this season was essentially a virtual guarantee to be a rough one, and they knew it. Tyrod Taylor is not Josh McCown or some other wily Vet who would have been content to mentor the new QB savior of the Buffalo Bills. He wanted to start and he wanted some room to show he could continue to start as a QB for years to come, that wasn't happening in Buffalo. They had him for one more year on a $16 million deal for ONE year. That means, they would have had to either pay him again or let him go. Some of you people that are complaining about not keeping him, with one year left on a deal, are the same that would be complaining that the Bills didn't at least get a ham sandwich for him. Well, they did much better than that because what they got in return led to Edmunds - who some had going in the top 10, the Bills got at 16.

 

Additionally, Beane and McD planned to strip away all of the poor contracts doled out by Whaley and they knew it was going to be hard for the first two years, in order to Draft their guys, sign the talent they believed fit the team and left the driftwood of the dead Cap money float away. Furthermore, they were also getting rid of guys (although I didn't and still don't like the Darby trade) who they didn't feel met their expectations of team first mentality. 

 

Then you have the retirement of Wood which came unexpectedly, and yes it was early in the Off-season but if you couldn't tell these guys had a plan and they were NOT deviating from that plan. Then, when they thought Richie was still in the fold for one more year, he abruptly "retires" because he didn't like the renegotiated deal. That's two big pieces that were originally unanticipated. Again, they could have responded but what were they to do? They could have tried to throw money at a guy like Nate Solder or Norwell, but they were bound and determined to set themselves free from Cap hell. And guess what....they have. They're sucking it up this year to make the long-term better. 

 

In the interim, they Drafted their future in Allen and Edmunds and still came away with Horrible Harry which may very well be the steal of the Draft and a guy like Teller who might start on the Offensive line next year, not bad for a 5th round pick. But we forget, none of these guys would be here (except maybe Harrison Phillips) if it weren't for the other trades to get them in position to make these moves. 

 

It sucks to watch a poor Offensive line be truly ineffective and the hodge-podge mix of WRs and Clay who has never come close to his contract run routes. But that said, if we were to reverse the two years: last year this total tear-down and looking ugly and this year we slipped into the playoffs, would fans be so impatient? I don't think so....last year was great, and I'm glad that damn monkey got sitting our backs got his throat slit, but I think any reasonable fan knew this was a 2 to 3 year rebuild. They're doing what they can to win now - i.e. bringing in Kerley as a the slot guy, and Star and Trent, in a way that doesn't over extend themselves and we're still JUST ONE GAME into the season. Who knows how this goes. But saying that McD and the team can't develop talent, seems to ignore how much they got out of Tre, Poyer, and Hyde last year or how Milano went from being a late round pick to a strong starter by year's end or how Dawkins was a 2nd round pick that afforded the team the ability to trade Glenn to move up and get Allen. 

 

I'm not saying I've agreed with ever decision or that I know for sure they can develop a QB or even have the mind for Offense that's needed. What I am saying is that it's WAAAAAY too early to make that kind of conclusion, especially when McD and his staff and Beane and his staff have already made the playoffs in their first year (regardless of how, they still had to be in a position to do that at the end of the year when no one, not even us fans, gave them a chance). 

 

Peterman was a poor choice, but McD had to be a man of his word and say that whomever earned that right, would get it. Then, Allen struggled in the Bengals game and Peterman - up to that point - was just lights out. Over 80% completion rate, 1 INT that bounced of Ivory's hands, multiple TDs and moving the Offense up and down the field. What happened? Well, I suppose we know definitively without question Nate is just not a Sunday QB, he's a great practice and scrimmage QB. I have a feeling, Allen will be the opposite and when the lights come on, the pressure bears down and the yards and games count, he'll shine. Maybe I'm wrong, but it's time to find out. 

 

YES. We need more people like you.

 

[Ol Dirty B]

21 minutes ago, BigBuff423 said:

I find it interesting everyone - AFTER ONE FREAKING WEEK - is ready to throw in the towel on how this team, i.e. McDermott, develops talent and in this thread's specific case, QB. I don't know why it's so hard for fans to understand what has actually happened when you take the intent of Beane and McD with what happened in the Off-season to know this season was essentially a virtual guarantee to be a rough one, and they knew it. Tyrod Taylor is not Josh McCown or some other wily Vet who would have been content to mentor the new QB savior of the Buffalo Bills. He wanted to start and he wanted some room to show he could continue to start as a QB for years to come, that wasn't happening in Buffalo. They had him for one more year on a $16 million deal for ONE year. That means, they would have had to either pay him again or let him go. Some of you people that are complaining about not keeping him, with one year left on a deal, are the same that would be complaining that the Bills didn't at least get a ham sandwich for him. Well, they did much better than that because what they got in return led to Edmunds - who some had going in the top 10, the Bills got at 16.

 

Additionally, Beane and McD planned to strip away all of the poor contracts doled out by Whaley and they knew it was going to be hard for the first two years, in order to Draft their guys, sign the talent they believed fit the team and left the driftwood of the dead Cap money float away. Furthermore, they were also getting rid of guys (although I didn't and still don't like the Darby trade) who they didn't feel met their expectations of team first mentality. 

 

Then you have the retirement of Wood which came unexpectedly, and yes it was early in the Off-season but if you couldn't tell these guys had a plan and they were NOT deviating from that plan. Then, when they thought Richie was still in the fold for one more year, he abruptly "retires" because he didn't like the renegotiated deal. That's two big pieces that were originally unanticipated. Again, they could have responded but what were they to do? They could have tried to throw money at a guy like Nate Solder or Norwell, but they were bound and determined to set themselves free from Cap hell. And guess what....they have. They're sucking it up this year to make the long-term better. 

 

In the interim, they Drafted their future in Allen and Edmunds and still came away with Horrible Harry which may very well be the steal of the Draft and a guy like Teller who might start on the Offensive line next year, not bad for a 5th round pick. But we forget, none of these guys would be here (except maybe Harrison Phillips) if it weren't for the other trades to get them in position to make these moves. 

 

It sucks to watch a poor Offensive line be truly ineffective and the hodge-podge mix of WRs and Clay who has never come close to his contract run routes. But that said, if we were to reverse the two years: last year this total tear-down and looking ugly and this year we slipped into the playoffs, would fans be so impatient? I don't think so....last year was great, and I'm glad that damn monkey got sitting our backs got his throat slit, but I think any reasonable fan knew this was a 2 to 3 year rebuild. They're doing what they can to win now - i.e. bringing in Kerley as a the slot guy, and Star and Trent, in a way that doesn't over extend themselves and we're still JUST ONE GAME into the season. Who knows how this goes. But saying that McD and the team can't develop talent, seems to ignore how much they got out of Tre, Poyer, and Hyde last year or how Milano went from being a late round pick to a strong starter by year's end or how Dawkins was a 2nd round pick that afforded the team the ability to trade Glenn to move up and get Allen. 

 

I'm not saying I've agreed with ever decision or that I know for sure they can develop a QB or even have the mind for Offense that's needed. What I am saying is that it's WAAAAAY too early to make that kind of conclusion, especially when McD and his staff and Beane and his staff have already made the playoffs in their first year (regardless of how, they still had to be in a position to do that at the end of the year when no one, not even us fans, gave them a chance). 

 

Peterman was a poor choice, but McD had to be a man of his word and say that whomever earned that right, would get it. Then, Allen struggled in the Bengals game and Peterman - up to that point - was just lights out. Over 80% completion rate, 1 INT that bounced of Ivory's hands, multiple TDs and moving the Offense up and down the field. What happened? Well, I suppose we know definitively without question Nate is just not a Sunday QB, he's a great practice and scrimmage QB. I have a feeling, Allen will be the opposite and when the lights come on, the pressure bears down and the yards and games count, he'll shine. Maybe I'm wrong, but it's time to find out. 

 

My goodness, this is a lot of rambling nonsense and homerism. I'll show where you are wrong in a much more succinct manner without the blinding homer **** that leads to whatever the !@#$ that was.

 

A) Tyrod Taylor is not Josh McCown. He would have never mentored a rookie..... Ugh... He's pretty much doing that in Cleveland, and has been nothing, but a professional. Even when this coaching staff made the horrendous decision last year. He helped Peterman prepare and cleaned up the coaching staff's mess. Also, the coaching staff didn't want Allen to start.

 

B) Edmunds was never going in the top 10. Sorry, and he didn't go. I like him, but this is just utterly irrelevant.

 

C) You talk about them coaching guys up and how Dawkins allowed for them to trade Glenn. I'm not giving them any credit for the offensive line now. You're crazy.

 

D) McD had to be a man of his word.

 

I don't know what this means because he talks in tired cliches, his words are nothing but empty publically. I'm sure he has a lot more to say privately, but he absolutely had responsibility to start Peterman. It's a business and they're professionals. I understand you think they're eating orange slices at half time and everyone has to get a fair chance, they don't. They know what's up and that the 7th overall pick, he's going in at some point. They owed Peterman nothing other than his paycheck. 

 

9 minutes ago, joesixpack said:

 

YES. We need more people like you.

 

 

Long winded and wrong on everything they say... Sorry man but I don't think so.

Edited September 14, 2018 by Ol Dirty B

[oldmanfan]

40 minutes ago, chris heff said:

What would indicate that these guys have a clue? If the plan was to draft QB of the future why trade Taylor? Taylor could have held the place and mentored Allen certainly as well as McCarron. At least sign someone that has started more than five games. Then they doubled down by deciding that going with Peterman and Allen was fine. Then they tripled down by starting Peterman. He is almost as much a rookie as Allen, two NFL starts. Now they are out of options. There are people on this site that would have done better.

16 million dollars.  That's why you trade Taylor.

 

 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

4 minutes ago, Ol Dirty B said:

Long winded and wrong on everything they say... Sorry man but I don't think so.

Wrong according to who? You?

 

Please.

[GG]

9 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

McCown was a FA. The Jets had to re-sign him. And McCarron wasn't the safe choice. He was the cheap choice. A guy who has 5 pretty uninspiring starts in the league was never the safe choice. Keenum signed a bridge deal in Denver by the way. They had choices. Their decision was to spend as little on a FA vet QB as possible and McCarron was the cheapest choice. Cheapest, not safest. 

 

You can't ignore Bills' looming cap situation in how they approached FA.  That's why they settled for Bodine & Newhouse.

 

Keenum wasn't really a bridge, but a heavy 2-yr commitment.  Bills could not afford $15 million in '18.   McCown signed for $10 million

 

McCarron was the safe choice based on Beane swinging for the fences to move up in the draft.   

 

The real risk is now that they didn't replace McCarron

[oldmanfan]

I have a feeling you'll see someone like Anderson or Moore here soon.  They worked out Lynch so it would seem they're thinking about options.

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, GG said:

 

You can't ignore Bills' looming cap situation in how they approached FA.  That's why they settled for Bodine & Newhouse.

 

Keenum wasn't really a bridge, but a heavy 2-yr commitment.  Bills could not afford $15 million in '18.   McCown signed for $10 million

 

McCarron was the safe choice based on Beane swinging for the fences to move up in the draft.   

 

The real risk is now that they didn't replace McCarron

 

We have been over what bridge contracts for Quarterbacks look like now in the NFL ad infinitum during the Tyrod debates. They look like the contract Case Keenum just signed. $16-19m a year for 2 years with an out after year one that costs  between $6m-10m dollars.  Keenum is right in that range on all counts.  Bradford's was a bridge contract too - 1 year, $20m.

 

The Bills didn't want to pay for that. They could have if they'd wanted to. They spent money elsewhere in free agency, and they have money left too - they didn't want to.  They wanted the cheapest option. I don't see any way that AJ could be classes as "safe" we had 5 games of NFL film on him. Far less than on Bradford, Bridgewater, McCown or Keenum. He wasn't safe. He was just cheap. 

5 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

I have a feeling you'll see someone like Anderson or Moore here soon.  They worked out Lynch so it would seem they're thinking about options.

 

If they sign Paxton Lynch I really will start to think they have no freaking clue what they are looking at when it comes to Quarterbacks. 

[oldmanfan]

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

 

We have been over what bridge contracts for Quarterbacks look like now in the NFL ad infinitum during the Tyrod debates. They look like the contract Case Keenum just signed. $16-19m a year for 2 years with an out after year one that costs  between $6m-10m dollars.  Keenum is right in that range on all counts.  Bradford's was a bridge contract too - 1 year, $20m.

 

The Bills didn't want to pay for that. They could have if they'd wanted to. They spent money elsewhere in free agency, and they have money left too - they didn't want to.  They wanted the cheapest option. I don't see any way that AJ could be classes as "safe" we had 5 games of NFL film on him. Far less than on Bradford, Bridgewater, McCown or Keenum. He wasn't safe. He was just cheap. 

 

If they sign Paxton Lynch I really will start to think they have no freaking clue what they are looking at when it comes to Quarterbacks. 

I would be forced to agree

[SoCal Deek]

All of this isn’t all that complicated really. 2018 was always going to be a throw away season for the Bills. They’re handcuffed by the salary cap and know they’ve got a wasted year to either sit or work with a pretty raw Rookie QB. Sit back and watch the games. It’s going to be painful, for sure, but the franchise has to get across this abyss to get to the other side. 

Go Bills

[BigBuff423]

7 minutes ago, Ol Dirty B said:

 

My goodness, this is a lot of rambling nonsense and homerism. I'll show where you are wrong in a much more succinct manner without the blinding homer **** that leads to whatever the !@#$ that was.

 

A) Tyrod Taylor is not Josh McCown. He would have never mentored a rookie..... Ugh... He's pretty much doing that in Cleveland, and has been nothing, but a professional. Even when this coaching staff made the horrendous decision last year. He helped Peterman prepare and cleaned up the coaching staff's mess. Also, the coaching staff didn't want Allen to start.

 

B) Edmunds was never going in the top 10. Sorry, and he didn't go. I like him, but this is just utterly irrelevant.

 

C) You talk about them coaching guys up and how Dawkins allowed for them to trade Glenn. I'm not giving them any credit for the offensive line now. You're crazy.

 

D) McD had to be a man of his word.

 

I don't know what this means because he talks in tired cliches, his words are nothing but empty publically. I'm sure he has a lot more to say privately, but he absolutely had responsibility to start Peterman. It's a business and they're professionals. I understand you think they're eating orange slices at half time and everyone has to get a fair chance, they don't. They know what's up and that the 7th overall pick, he's going in at some point. They owed Peterman nothing other than his paycheck. 

 

 

Long winded and wrong on everything they say... Sorry man but I don't think so.

 

Wrong, because I disagree with you? No, wrong is when it comes to fact and you don't agree and that's fine, but that's not wrong - it's just not what you agree with. Long-winded? Yeah, you got me there. But instead of posting in 10 different threads that essentially say the same thing, I decided to do it all  at once.

 

Tyrod is playing for a Browns team that as of right now could compete, the Bills were not doing that this year. Tyrod's place on this team would have just been to be a mentor and not to actually play to win this year. He's a good guy, never insinuated any different, but content being a mentor, nope, sorry that was not his intent. If you don't see how McCown are so incredibly different in where they are in their respective careers, there's nothing anyone can say to you to be reasonable.

 

Dawkins played extremely well last year - and other than one game - there's nothing else to go by. If you don't see that, then you ignore virtually every other metric and analyst and that's on you.

 

You don't like McD....again, fine. But don't let that bias sway you from he did what he said he was going to do: give the job to QB who played the best and in the Pre-Season and camp, that was Peterman - by all accounts including his detractors. 

 

Edmunds never going in the top 10....hindsight is easy, but if you go back to early April, and resurrect old Draft predictions and player rankings, find me any more than 3 out of 10 that had him out of the top 10, I'll publicly apologize for being wrong to you in this thread. I've done it before and I'll do it again if you feel the need. 

 

Lastly - if you've even read this far - I'm not really sure hurling insults is helping the situation. I've been cordial and respectful, so why the need to make it personal by saying, "My goodness, this is a lot of rambling nonsense and homerism. I'll show where you are wrong in a much more succinct manner without the blinding homer **** that leads to whatever the !@#$ that was."??                      

If it gets you that upset, then so be it...but I wonder what happened to you this morning that a differing opinion gets you all bent out of shape. Relax.

[GG]

4 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

We have been over what bridge contracts for Quarterbacks look like now in the NFL ad infinitum during the Tyrod debates. They look like the contract Case Keenum just signed. $16-19m a year for 2 years with an out after year one that costs  between $6m-10m dollars.  Keenum is right in that range on all counts.  Bradford's was a bridge contract too - 1 year, $20m.

 

The Bills didn't want to pay for that. They could have if they'd wanted to. They spent money elsewhere in free agency, and they have money left too - they didn't want to.  They wanted the cheapest option. I don't see any way that AJ could be classes as "safe" we had 5 games of NFL film on him. Far less than on Bradford, Bridgewater, McCown or Keenum. He wasn't safe. He was just cheap. 

 

If they sign Paxton Lynch I really will start to think they have no freaking clue what they are looking at when it comes to Quarterbacks. 

I guess we have different interpretations on the flexibility that Beane had in March. 

 

For a team that currently has $7 million in cap space, allocating $20 million to a bridge QB would be more reckless because that would mean cutting the roster much more.

[BigBuff423]

27 minutes ago, joesixpack said:

 

YES. We need more people like you.

 

 

Thanks - but that island is a population of 1.....

[PeterDude]

2 hours ago, todd said:

 

Ridiculous. New offense, roster turnover, one game into the second year of a coaching regime, and you've decided he can't develop a QB? Seriously, that's just insane. 

 

McClappity choosing Peterman twice and it going historically bad, no, it's not ridiculous to think that McDermott doesn't have a clue on QB evaluation, it's insane if you think he does IMO.

 

Allen is being setup for failure by a supremely arrogant coach & FO, just like I feared.  The Bills are still very Billsy.

Edited September 14, 2018 by PeterDude

[Midwest1981]

11 minutes ago, GG said:

 

You can't ignore Bills' looming cap situation in how they approached FA.  That's why they settled for Bodine & Newhouse.

 

Keenum wasn't really a bridge, but a heavy 2-yr commitment.  Bills could not afford $15 million in '18.   McCown signed for $10 million

 

McCarron was the safe choice based on Beane swinging for the fences to move up in the draft.   

 

The real risk is now that they didn't replace McCarron

To those insisting that McCarron was the only choice that fell within Buffalo’s parameters in terms of affordability and only desiring a bridge option please note that Bridgewater actually went for LESS than McCarron: 1 year, $5 million with just a half-million guaranteed.

 

Considering Bridgewater- just 5 months after signing- had a trade market clearly it wasn’t just the Bills that missed that boat. But Bridgewater was in fact a viable affordable option who’s started an entire SEASON (not 2 games or 5 games) in which Minnesota went to the Playoffs.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Just now, BigBuff423 said:

 

Thanks - but that island is a population of 1.....

 

Don't let these finger-sandwich eating nancies get you down, amigo.

 

[BigBuff423]

1 minute ago, joesixpack said:

 

Don't let these finger-sandwich eating nancies get you down, amigo.

 

 

No worries, thick skin....I was being sarcastic, but attempting brevity....b/c you know, people don't like long-winded sarcasm.

[GG]

1 minute ago, Midwest1981 said:

To those insisting that McCarron was the only choice that fell within Buffalo’s parameters in terms of affordability and only desiring a bridge option please note that Bridgewater actually went for LESS than McCarron: 1 year, $5 million with just a half-million guaranteed.

 

Considering Bridgewater- just 5 months after signing- had a trade market clearly it wasn’t just the Bills that missed that boat. But Bridgewater was in fact a viable affordable option who’s started an entire SEASON (not 2 games or 5 games) in which Minnesota went to the Playoffs.

 

Agreed on how Bridgewater ended up.  But considering there was only 1 team willing to take a very low risk on him indicates there were still concerns about his health in March.  In RETROSPECT he would clearly been the best option.

[SoCal Deek]

1 minute ago, PeterDude said:

 

McClappity choosing Peterman twice and it going historically bad, no, it's not ridiculous to think that McDermott doesn't have a clue on QB evaluation, it's insane if you think he does IMO.

 

Allen is being setup for failure by a supremely arrogant coach & FO, just like I feared.

How exactly is Allen being set up for failure? He’s most likely not going to win many games but he’ll get in game experience and that’ll be good for him in the long run. His ‘failure’ will be tied to the mental side of the game. I think he knows where things are at with the current roster. He’s not clueless! (At least I hope he’s not.)