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Virgil

Greatest Show on Turf Comeback question

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Every few years we see a trend in offensive and defensive styles.  Sometimes we see things that revolutionize the NFL. The Patriots did it a few years ago with their screen heavy offense and the Rams blew the league up with the greatest show on turf.  Unless I’m wrong, it wasn’t until the Pats busted out the Tampa Cover 2 did that offense get neutralized and slowly fade out.  

 

As I’m watching more and more of these current elite defenses, I’m seeing way more single safeties deep.  Sometimes more drop back into coverage, but you don’t get the same deep coverage back peddling as you do keeping the play in front of you.  

 

With that being said, I wonder if we start to see teams go back to a stretch the field offense like the Rams ran.  

 

I’m sure there’s a ton of things wrong with what I just said, but whatever

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Defensive lines are just so good and offensive lines are really struggling all around the league. I think that's why it is tough to have a vertical passing game like that, because the offensive lines can't hold up long enough.

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11 minutes ago, Putin said:

Who gives a sh1t about the Chiefs or Mahoney on here ???

 

The article is directly related to the original poster and his thoughts on the vertical passing game disappearing etc.  

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Yeah, offensive line quality was a thought for me as well.  I’d have to look at Warner and Greens average release time 

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4 hours ago, MJS said:

Defensive lines are just so good and offensive lines are really struggling all around the league. I think that's why it is tough to have a vertical passing game like that, because the offensive lines can't hold up long enough.

 

Yep. This.

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6 hours ago, Virgil said:

Every few years we see a trend in offensive and defensive styles.  Sometimes we see things that revolutionize the NFL. The Patriots did it a few years ago with their screen heavy offense and the Rams blew the league up with the greatest show on turf.  Unless I’m wrong, it wasn’t until the Pats busted out the Tampa Cover 2 did that offense get neutralized and slowly fade out.  

 

As I’m watching more and more of these current elite defenses, I’m seeing way more single safeties deep.  Sometimes more drop back into coverage, but you don’t get the same deep coverage back peddling as you do keeping the play in front of you.  

 

With that being said, I wonder if we start to see teams go back to a stretch the field offense like the Rams ran.  

 

I’m sure there’s a ton of things wrong with what I just said, but whatever

There is offences that are predicated on gong vertical..bucaneers rams..Steelers ..but as far as an offence who basically lined up most plays and ran deep patterns I doubt we see that again..it nearly got Kurt Warner killed once the rams oline got a little bit older ..the pass rush in today's NFL is too exotic for these protections to hold up play after play. The rams just had the perfect personnel at the time top 5 all time left tackle veteran great oline 2 elite WRs .

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44 minutes ago, bills11 said:

There is offences that are predicated on gong vertical..bucaneers rams..Steelers ..but as far as an offence who basically lined up most plays and ran deep patterns I doubt we see that again..it nearly got Kurt Warner killed once the rams oline got a little bit older ..the pass rush in today's NFL is too exotic for these protections to hold up play after play. The rams just had the perfect personnel at the time top 5 all time left tackle veteran great oline 2 elite WRs .

 

Marshall Faulk too.  But my thing about that O has always been that after Kurt its next most important player was Orlando Pace.

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1 hour ago, Virgil said:

Yeah, offensive line quality was a thought for me as well.  I’d have to look at Warner and Greens average release time 

The trend I expect to see is the return of the big running back. The DLs are not getting bigger and the big backs can be tough to bring down. But, they will need to have quick starts.

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7 minutes ago, Bill from NYC said:

The trend I expect to see is the return of the big running back. The DLs are not getting bigger and the big backs can be tough to bring down. But, they will need to have quick starts.

Good point Bill. This is a way to help combat the smaller faster defensive front 7’s we are seeint.

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6 hours ago, Putin said:

Who gives a sh1t about the Chiefs or Mahoney on here ???

It's an interesting topic compared to most on here that the Bills may one day may be able to resurrect with Allen's arm strength.  Heck, we might be in a dome like the Rams were by the time we give him the necessary weapons.

Edited by Doc Brown
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As the lines have become small and quick...I've wondered if it would now be a good idea to go get a couple really big Jerome Bettis backs..big hulking fullback, and then a QB like Cam Newton..and run or RPO out of some big sets......these teams who stay in the nickel almost the whole game would get bowled over if they came up against something like that....I think if it happens it will almost be by accident....some coach who doesn't have a great QB, but somehow has a big TE or a bruiser type RB decides he has nothing to lose and goes double TE with an I formation because that's what he has....would be something to see for sure...

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3 minutes ago, Zerovotlz said:

As the lines have become small and quick...I've wondered if it would now be a good idea to go get a couple really big Jerome Bettis backs..big hulking fullback, and then a QB like Cam Newton..and run or RPO out of some big sets......these teams who stay in the nickel almost the whole game would get bowled over if they came up against something like that....I think if it happens it will almost be by accident....some coach who doesn't have a great QB, but somehow has a big TE or a bruiser type RB decides he has nothing to lose and goes double TE with an I formation because that's what he has....would be something to see for sure...

 

To be fair Rex and Greg Roman have already tried it here. That was the plan. Pass just enough and have enough talent at wide receiver (Sammy, Woods, Hogan, Harvin, Goodwin) to keep teams in nickel and then have a really multiple rushing offense that smashed it down their throats with a mix of running backs - Shady who is elusive and can cut on a dime, then Karlos Williams and Gillislee who are more direct, one cut, hit the hole and go guys. It was effective (even more so when Anthony Lynn became the playcaller) the problem was Rex fielded an awful defense. Despite the heat maps. 

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From afar, I thought Buffalo was going to be pretty good under Ryan...it looked like you all were about to turn the corner there for a bit....

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6 minutes ago, Zerovotlz said:

From afar, I thought Buffalo was going to be pretty good under Ryan...it looked like you all were about to turn the corner there for a bit....

 

The 2015 roster is the best roster we have had in my time as a fan (since 02). We had more top end talent, decent depth... it was Tyrod's best year here as a Quarterback..... if the defense had played up to its talent level in 2015 we'd have won 11 or 12 games. Sadly we scrapped the scheme that had produced the 4th best defense in the league in 2014 to introduce the genius Rex Ryan defense...... which sucked. 

Edited by GunnerBill
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16 minutes ago, Zerovotlz said:

As the lines have become small and quick...I've wondered if it would now be a good idea to go get a couple really big Jerome Bettis backs..big hulking fullback, and then a QB like Cam Newton..and run or RPO out of some big sets......these teams who stay in the nickel almost the whole game would get bowled over if they came up against something like that....I think if it happens it will almost be by accident....some coach who doesn't have a great QB, but somehow has a big TE or a bruiser type RB decides he has nothing to lose and goes double TE with an I formation because that's what he has....would be something to see for sure...

Basically how the Eagles gashed the Pats in the Superbowl on a couple big plays by blount..he was incredibly difficult to bring down. 

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1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Marshall Faulk too.  But my thing about that O has always been that after Kurt its next most important player was Orlando Pace.

 

 

I don't know, the knock on Martz's offense was that it allowed his QB to get destroyed frequently.

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6 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

I don't know, the knock on Martz's offense was that it allowed his QB to get destroyed frequently.

 

Yep - but that knock came later. His offense worked with the Greatest Show on turf those 3 years because it had Pace and some other guys who could play on the line. When Pace began to slow and others aged he was still trying to run that offense and Warner was getting smashed, resulting in his injury and losing the job to Bolger. Then when Martz moved on to Detroit and Chicago he was still trying to run that offense with sub standard lines. The difference between the Martz offense working and not working was Orlando Pace and his buddies on that original line in St Louis. 

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Pace was a big factor and Faulk was a stud. I remember fantasy football during those years and you’d see Warner, Faulk, and Bruce possibly go 1, 2, 3.  

 

I always think about what kids are bred for these days. I think more kids want to go lay defense or offensive weapons.  Offensive line prospects seem to have declined a lot in recent years.  Teams rely on chip blocks and quick passes to offset pressure vs holding down the fort.  

 

I remever sending 7 or 8 against 5 and those lines could hold their own 

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5 minutes ago, Virgil said:

Pace was a big factor and Faulk was a stud. I remember fantasy football during those years and you’d see Warner, Faulk, and Bruce possibly go 1, 2, 3.  

 

I always think about what kids are bred for these days. I think more kids want to go lay defense or offensive weapons.  Offensive line prospects seem to have declined a lot in recent years.  Teams rely on chip blocks and quick passes to offset pressure vs holding down the fort.  

 

I remever sending 7 or 8 against 5 and those lines could hold their own 

 

The two other factors in the decline of o-line play are:

 

- the prevalence of college offenses running spread principle zone read style schemes which don't require lineman to play in a 3 point stance almost at all;

- the CBA. More than almost any other unit on the football field offensive line play requires chemistry and cohesion that comes with practice. You simply are not allowed to practice as much these days.

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22 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Yep - but that knock came later. His offense worked with the Greatest Show on turf those 3 years because it had Pace and some other guys who could play on the line. When Pace began to slow and others aged he was still trying to run that offense and Warner was getting smashed, resulting in his injury and losing the job to Bolger. Then when Martz moved on to Detroit and Chicago he was still trying to run that offense with sub standard lines. The difference between the Martz offense working and not working was Orlando Pace and his buddies on that original line in St Louis. 

Also his offence got more and more pass happy after vermeil retired and he became head coach  ..his offence was much more balanced during 1999 vs the other years .

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39 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Yep - but that knock came later. His offense worked with the Greatest Show on turf those 3 years because it had Pace and some other guys who could play on the line. When Pace began to slow and others aged he was still trying to run that offense and Warner was getting smashed, resulting in his injury and losing the job to Bolger. Then when Martz moved on to Detroit and Chicago he was still trying to run that offense with sub standard lines. The difference between the Martz offense working and not working was Orlando Pace and his buddies on that original line in St Louis. 

 

In those Greatest Show 3 years, Martz absolutely took a pounding.  He had to, given the offense that had no max protection ever and he had his WR on intermediate to long routes on every play.  He had to wait, throw to the spot and accept the hit. 

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The power run is working now and will fade soon as the long ball opens. Defenses are so quick right now, too.  But as the ball goes deep so does the quick, dashing RB who can beat the big boys up front.

 

By 2021 we will see huge passing yards and break away runs.

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